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Need help fitting solo Algos

Author
Adiaforos Anousios
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-07-18 11:20:33 UTC
Hello everyone i just need a good solo fit for algos considering the fact i am gonna be using railguns .. i dont mind if its armor/shiled tanked i just need some ideas for a kinda ''kiting'' solo fit ...Tips would be great too for how to deal against other frigates or destros ;)
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-07-18 11:35:49 UTC
well considering the algos is a droneboat, the guns should be of little concern. You don't have enough CPU to fit anything except for electron blasters in most fits anyway.

kiting with drones, while theoretically a good strategy rarely works because the enemy just shoots your drones.
Whitehound
#3 - 2013-07-18 12:33:57 UTC
Drones with neuts are a classic, so I just leave this here:

226 DPS max, 10k eHP, -36 GJ/s neuts (216 GJ every 6secs). Flies 1673 m/s, cap stable with neuts turned off.

[Algos, PvP Neuter]

Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

Hammerhead II x2
Warrior II x3
Warrior II x2
Hobgoblin II x3

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-07-18 12:39:52 UTC
that's not really a kiting fit and any projectile/missile ship is going to tear you a new one :D

plus, if neuting: why not dragoon?
Whitehound
#5 - 2013-07-18 13:20:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
that's not really a kiting fit and any projectile/missile ship is going to tear you a new one :D

plus, if neuting: why not dragoon?

That's not really an opinion either, is it? It can stay at range indefinitely and the neuts will turn a pursuer's propulsion off. You sure can kite with it.

Thrashers can produce twice as much DPS than this Algos, but then need a propulsion to stay at their optimal or they will be shooting at best from their falloff. The Corax has got range, but can only produce more DPS when it scarifies tank. A Dragoon may seem like the better choice, but it only has got 2 mid-slots, which is a bit of a joke, and the Algos is a tad bit faster and has got more drone bandwidth than the Dragoon, while its DPS and passive shield tank will stay largely unimpressed by neuts. OP then wanted an Algos and not a Dragoon.

You will find a counter to every ship. Better tell me why you want to argue again.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-07-18 13:44:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
small neuts range are 6.3km.

You can't neut enough with small neuts to shut scram+web off so your tactic is flawed. As soon as your pursuer gets in scram range you are boned.

And you still havent addressed the fact your drones will be killed.
Whitehound
#7 - 2013-07-18 14:13:05 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
small neuts range are 6.3km.

You can't neut enough with small neuts to shut scram+web off so your tactic is flawed. As soon as your pursuer gets in scram range you are boned.

It is almost impossible to time your approach so that you land exactly within such a small area without running over it. Unless your Algos pilot has gone afk is it impossible to make this perfect. Scrams and webs then do not do damage. Weapons and drones do, and as long as your pursuer cannot get into optimal range to produce superior DPS and without getting neuted is there nothing to fear. The drones just keep hitting it and this Algos has got a nice buffer.

Again, why do you want to argue about this?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-07-18 14:21:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
I don't understand what you're saying really.

I'm telling you: your neuts have 6.3km range and that means you can't neut your opponent until he's already scrammed+webbed you. In addition to this you cannot neut enough to shut down the scram+web because they use very little cap.

Since I said a projectile or missile boat their weapons will not be using cap so they can just sit there and kill your drones and once the drones are dead you have no damage output.

I'm arguing because I want to understand your thought process in giving this advice.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2013-07-18 14:51:33 UTC
400 plate.. Some guns... scram, web, mwd.

Should be fine.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Whitehound
#10 - 2013-07-18 15:33:46 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I don't understand what you're saying really.

I understand what you are saying, but the Algos is only a destroyer.

Please try to get a ship within web and scram range, but avoid getting closer than 6km. You will see that this is anything but easy.

Then take a look at small projectile weapons. These have very short optimals (i.e. 1km) with long falloffs. Whatever DPS EFT shows will you need to get the turrets within optimal range before you get the DPS out. Not only will you have to get closer than the neuts' range, but at only 1km does tracking become an issue and the nominal DPS often cannot be reached (hence most pilots fit TEs next to gyros and not only gyros).

And how many webs do you imagine you have fitted? You have already one webbing the Algos. It is almost impossible to shoot warriors without a web. So how do you plan on killing the warriors before these have gone through your tank when these have extra hitpoints, you are short on webs and the Algos can launch additional drones?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2013-07-18 18:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
He's right

You can't kite with an Algos. (Also four neuts quite easily shut down scram web)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#12 - 2013-07-18 19:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Domanique Altares
Adiaforos Anousios wrote:
Hello everyone i just need a good solo fit for algos considering the fact i am gonna be using railguns .. i dont mind if its armor/shiled tanked i just need some ideas for a kinda ''kiting'' solo fit ...Tips would be great too for how to deal against other frigates or destros ;)


Here you go:

[Algos, Kiting Algos]
Local Hull Conversion Overdrive Injector I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II

75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Spike S
[empty high slot]

Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I


Warrior II x5

If someone can catch up to you, switch to Javelin. Lowish cap life, but it's a hybrid dessy, so you can expect that.

ETA: If you want, you could meta the DC or MSE (or use a CPU implant) and drop a small neut in the utility high as a last ditch if someone gets too close and lands a scram on you.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-07-18 20:43:57 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I don't understand what you're saying really.

I understand what you are saying, but the Algos is only a destroyer.

Please try to get a ship within web and scram range, but avoid getting closer than 6km. You will see that this is anything but easy.

Then take a look at small projectile weapons. These have very short optimals (i.e. 1km) with long falloffs. Whatever DPS EFT shows will you need to get the turrets within optimal range before you get the DPS out. Not only will you have to get closer than the neuts' range, but at only 1km does tracking become an issue and the nominal DPS often cannot be reached (hence most pilots fit TEs next to gyros and not only gyros).

And how many webs do you imagine you have fitted? You have already one webbing the Algos. It is almost impossible to shoot warriors without a web. So how do you plan on killing the warriors before these have gone through your tank when these have extra hitpoints, you are short on webs and the Algos can launch additional drones?


I never said you had to be outside neut range and within scram range (although this is hilariously easy to do against the algos because it has only a MWD), though that's not the point.

I think you have no idea about the frigate meta right now as most of the popular ones can kite at scram range. Slasher, condor, hookbill, railcursus, slicer (though not a scram kiter), etc.

Also why on earth do i need to web the algos? It's scrammed meaning it effectively has no prop mod.

You really have no idea what you're on about =/
Whitehound
#14 - 2013-07-18 20:46:33 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
...

All I see is that you have not answered my questions and are dodging the discussion.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#15 - 2013-07-18 21:01:43 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:


I think you have no idea about the frigate meta right now as most of the popular ones can kite at scram range. Slasher, condor, hookbill, railcursus, slicer (though not a scram kiter), etc.



While I don't agree with his build, you do realize that scram range kiting is irrelevant, right? Most of those frigs are going to eat it hard from the 150+dps of drone damage long before they cut through the Algos' tank while fighting in falloff, or doing anemic missile/rocket damage.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2013-07-18 21:35:03 UTC
I would give it a go in my Comet if i knew the Algos was fitted like that.

would be a free kill once the drones are dead really. Wouldn't be easy though i'm sure.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Adiaforos Anousios
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-07-19 09:24:56 UTC
Thank you everyone ;) ... i know that algos is not that fast to ensure a good kiting boat but my main purpose is to gain enough time for my drones to apply the appropriate damage
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-07-19 10:07:13 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:


I think you have no idea about the frigate meta right now as most of the popular ones can kite at scram range. Slasher, condor, hookbill, railcursus, slicer (though not a scram kiter), etc.



While I don't agree with his build, you do realize that scram range kiting is irrelevant, right? Most of those frigs are going to eat it hard from the 150+dps of drone damage long before they cut through the Algos' tank while fighting in falloff, or doing anemic missile/rocket damage.


thats why you kill the algos' dps first

@whitehound still don't know what question im dodging.
Whitehound
#19 - 2013-07-19 10:27:39 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
@whitehound still don't know what question im dodging.

See the sentences above ending with a question mark.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-07-19 10:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
Whitehound wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
@whitehound still don't know what question im dodging.

See the sentences above ending with a question mark.

And how many webs do you imagine you have fitted?

One

So how do you plan on killing the warriors before these have gone through your tank when these have extra hitpoints, you are short on webs and the Algos can launch additional drones?

Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Also why on earth do i need to web the algos? It's scrammed meaning it effectively has no prop mod.




And you're overestimating how much hp warriors have even with the algos bonus. With perfect skills they have a combined shield and armour hp of about 360 and 320ish structure (no resistance). Not many people have trained drone durability to 5 so it's likely the numbers are lower.

It takes about 2-4 volleys from autocannons or rockets to take out a webbed warrior II and considering the cycle times of small guns: that's not a lot of time for your drones to be doing any damage.
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