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actual dps scorpion navy or rattlesnake
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Angel Carpenter
Arkadian Empire
#1 - 2013-07-18 02:09:49 UTC
ok so im efting both ships and both look like they can active tank rather well so not worried about that. I just don't know which one is better dps wise off the paper. im only considering those ships because sexy scorpion hull is sexy (imo anyway).

anyone who has flown one or both ships able to assist in me choosing which one? I know there was a cruise missile buff but havent used any kind of missiles in a long time. so yeah
Jasmine Assasin
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-07-18 03:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jasmine Assasin
I love my SNI, and I really want to like the RS but...I mean a 50% velocity bonus for CMs and torps? For CMs it's wasted completely. Torps are good with it but the DPS from only 4 unbonused launchers still sucks.

If you have the drone skills and prefer that style of play get a RS and if not get a SNI IMHO.

Hopefully CCP addresses the Worm, Gila, Rattlesnake lineup and does something to satisfy both missile users and Drone users when they (if they?) rebalance them.
Novah Soul
#3 - 2013-07-18 03:22:25 UTC
Angel Carpenter wrote:
ok so im efting both ships and both look like they can active tank rather well so not worried about that. I just don't know which one is better dps wise off the paper. im only considering those ships because sexy scorpion hull is sexy (imo anyway).

anyone who has flown one or both ships able to assist in me choosing which one? I know there was a cruise missile buff but havent used any kind of missiles in a long time. so yeah

Comparing the two, the tank is comparable, like you said. As far as dps, it's really situational:

If you don't mind standing still to babysit sentries, a RS should be able to easily push 1000-1200 dps.

However, if you want a more mobile setup, a RS will need to forgo the sentries which will cut it's potential dps quite a bit. I have not ran the numbers on one, but given that drone aggro mechanics aren't kind to drones other then sentries and lights, I would say for all practical purposes the two ships would be rather comparable in damage.

With my skills and t1 ammo, my SNI gets about 700 dps (a bit low but I'm too lazy and cheap to bother pushing it). Although the RS gets only 4 launchers, the drone bonus would likely compensate for it.

A man is known by the quality of his friends. - Lex Luthor
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-07-18 03:47:21 UTC
rattle is better in real applied DPS since it's damage is weighted towards drones rather than missiles.

Cruise missiles got buffed however since the SNI has no explosion radius bonus they still do rather poor damage to small targets.

Art of Explosions
Jasmine Assasin
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-07-18 04:21:46 UTC
I can say that it hasn't been an issue for me. The SNI has a drone bay and I always have a nice target painter fit.

I have never thought that "man these frigs just die so slow I wish i flew a different ship" once. It's just a non issue. The only ones that give me issues would give me issues in ANY ship, such as the Spider Drone IIs at the end of AE. Those suck regardless but drones take them out while I kill Tiogo Kargaz.

I personally hate "drone boats" so even if the RS did twice the DPS of the SNI, as long as it is like it is now I will not fly it. Just like I flew a Megathron instead of a Dominix like every other neckbeard that worried about their precious isk/hr. I would love to have a CM slinging Pirate BS to call my own but right now the RS ain't it. If you do like drones and have the skills for them then by all means go for it, it's a cool looking ship that does the job.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#6 - 2013-07-18 05:00:23 UTC
sentries are annoying to use in a bunch of missions (any time you need to move) but are pretty awesome in others. you can nearly afk a bunch too, with a target painter and auto targeting missiles my drones rarely get shot at.

I bought a navy scorp at some point but have never flown it. seems like an extra tanky raven, which imo seems a bit useless I'd rather just go for a golem or cnr in that case.

overall I don't think either one outright wins, just go with preference. I think the rattler really could use better missiles, 4 missiles with no damage bonus brings it down a bunch.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-07-18 06:39:29 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
rattle is better in real applied DPS since it's damage is weighted towards drones rather than missiles.

Cruise missiles got buffed however since the SNI has no explosion radius bonus they still do rather poor damage to small targets.



with 8 midslots and the calibration buff, the SNI has absolutely no problem aplyng dps to smaller targets.

you'll need to switch ammo now and then, just as you need to switch drones with the Rattlesnake.



As for witch one you should use:

SNI is cheaper, and faster to fly then a Rattler.

though if you like drones the rattlesnake is your ship.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-07-18 10:30:40 UTC
I'm assuming you're then talking about target painters, this involves a lot more micro-management (not a little, A LOT) plus unless you are planning to only engage at sub 45km (therefore wasting much of the advantages cruise missiles have) your target painters have a chance to miss wasting a whole 10 second cycle.

A SNI with +6% GMP and TNP implants and this setup for damage:

[Scorpion Navy Issue, level4]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
[empty low slot]

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

does 302 DPS to your regular frigate when you use BOTH painters on it. It's highly inefficient. You can maybe take out 2 frigates per 10 seconds (MAYBE) where a rattlesnake will take out 1 every 4 seconds (guaranteed) and at the same time throwing fury cruises at battleships.

Art of Explosions
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-07-18 16:20:21 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I'm assuming you're then talking about target painters, this involves a lot more micro-management (not a little, A LOT) plus unless you are planning to only engage at sub 45km (therefore wasting much of the advantages cruise missiles have) your target painters have a chance to miss wasting a whole 10 second cycle.

A SNI with +6% GMP and TNP implants and this setup for damage:

[Scorpion Navy Issue, level4]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
[empty low slot]

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Precision Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

does 302 DPS to your regular frigate when you use BOTH painters on it. It's highly inefficient. You can maybe take out 2 frigates per 10 seconds (MAYBE) where a rattlesnake will take out 1 every 4 seconds (guaranteed) and at the same time throwing fury cruises at battleships.



Why would you use the cruise missiles to take out frigates, that's what your flight of light drones is for.


Also to the above comment about it being like a tankier raven, depending on how you fit it yes, you can use those mids for other modules like target painters, or an afterburner etc.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#10 - 2013-07-18 21:49:06 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
rattle is better in real applied DPS since it's damage is weighted towards drones rather than missiles.

Cruise missiles got buffed however since the SNI has no explosion radius bonus they still do rather poor damage to small targets.


Except with 2 x RF TPs that's not true.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#11 - 2013-07-18 21:51:24 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
You can maybe take out 2 frigates per 10 seconds (MAYBE) where a rattlesnake will take out 1 every 4 seconds (guaranteed) and at the same time throwing fury cruises at battleships.



Except that if the frigates are under 30KM your Gardes will struggle to touch them even with max skills and 2 Faction Omnis.

The Rattlesnake is situational, the SNI is awesome everywhere. I have both and use both. The SNI gets my vote.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-07-18 21:55:17 UTC
Angel Carpenter wrote:
ok so im efting both ships and both look like they can active tank rather well so not worried about that. I just don't know which one is better dps wise off the paper. im only considering those ships because sexy scorpion hull is sexy (imo anyway).

anyone who has flown one or both ships able to assist in me choosing which one? I know there was a cruise missile buff but havent used any kind of missiles in a long time. so yeah



Rattlesnake has a huge tank, poor missile DPS and everything is about drones which means: manage drones agro so they don't get pop, travel time, deploy sentries and stand still...

Well this loos really boring doesn't it?

Scorpion get a very nice tank, nice missiles dps and those cruise missiles travel really fast now on top of being awesome with TP support, nice Drones bay to get some dps support and get rid of pesky frigates at scram range on top of getting a sexy skin.

A bit more dynamic as gameplay imho.

Choose the one you like, best ship ever.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Holgrak Blacksmith
Prophets of Motav
#13 - 2013-07-19 07:18:26 UTC
I've flown a lot of different battleships with almost perfect skills for each - mach/nightmare/rattle/laserboats, and I pretty much only use a rattlesnake now. The eft warriors will insist you use an active tank on it, but I'd urge you to consider a passive fit. You sacrifice very little applied dps making a rattle passive, it also makes it a lot easier to fly (if you're lazy like me), and the tank is fantastic; if a plex pops up in null I can head straight to it without having to go refit.

Another huge advantage of the Rattle is cost - a Rattlesnake, unlike most other top end PVE ships is extremely effective when it's only fit with tech 2 mods. Other pirate/marauder BS must have pricey mods to have them grind out the isk/hour you'll hear about on the forums.

To give some numbers - in angel nullsec I get 26-27mil ticks with a tech 2 passive tanked RS. Yes you could earn more with a carrier/pimped Mach/NM, but it'll hurt your wallet a hell of a lot more when you lose it (and you will lose it).