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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers

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David Kir
Hotbirds
#141 - 2013-07-18 13:50:49 UTC
Pesadel0 wrote:
David Kir wrote:
Yanarix Blitz wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus.
This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler

Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.


close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance?

did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga.

its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg...
... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable



Errrr...have you ever flown a Sleipnir?
A Maelstrom, or an active tanked Proteus, for that matter?
Any Hawks and Harpies?
Active boosting is for PVE?



So how is making the vaga more like a sleipnir good for the vaga? Because that is the only remotely similar ship in those ships that you mentioned to the vaga.


All of those are frequently active tanked ships.
All of those quite used, and very much successful.
My point is: active tanks aren't only for PVE, and I'm right.
That is it.

You can still use your beloved Vagabond as you did, in that it hasn't changed by one single bit.
But now you can also ASB it, if you're brave and good enough to do so, and be a very capable brawler.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Anharat
Cutting Edge Incorporated
#142 - 2013-07-18 13:50:50 UTC
The Ishtar change is making me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Thank you.
(Can i get a drone speed bonus instead of the extended drone bay ? ;) )
Yanarix Blitz
Black Scare
#143 - 2013-07-18 13:52:24 UTC
Voith wrote:
Why do drone ships still have a slot penalty? The slot penalty was from "back in the day" when there was almost no drone upgrades. It has been 5+ years since that penalty was relevant. Stop putting it on new ships. Drone boats are hardly used enough to justify a penalty these days.


Also the Ishtar still has the cripplingly low CPU it inherited from the Tier 2 Vexor almost a decade ago.


Also, the role bonus will rarely be used on most HACs.


so true +1
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#144 - 2013-07-18 13:53:16 UTC
Yanarix Blitz wrote:
wondering if this is a nerf hidden under the term "buff" cus that it looks like to everyone who's actually playing the game...

do you dudes have too much time/mone to think about changing working stuff instead of bringing new content? - cus the last 3 expansions weren't taht great content wise, and POS is still crap!

ohwait... i guess you'll start doing something usefull again once subscriptions gooing back and you realised you only producing hot air and ****!


You should listen and read the comments of soundwave and fozzie in any interviews they have given in the past while.
They both have stated many times they want more and more situations for ships to blow up in space.

Hence the TE nerf, to discourage kiting, and encourage more in your face brawling.
Hence soundwaves publicly stated hatred of off-grid boosting, which is slated for removal.
Hence the "at best" neutral changes to HAC's.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#145 - 2013-07-18 13:53:24 UTC
Yanarix Blitz wrote:
Voith wrote:
Why do drone ships still have a slot penalty? The slot penalty was from "back in the day" when there was almost no drone upgrades. It has been 5+ years since that penalty was relevant. Stop putting it on new ships. Drone boats are hardly used enough to justify a penalty these days.


Also the Ishtar still has the cripplingly low CPU it inherited from the Tier 2 Vexor almost a decade ago.


Also, the role bonus will rarely be used on most HACs.


so true +1

Gallente get ******, Winmatar get unneeded buffs.

WHO COULD HAVE FORSEEN THIS!!!111one


Seriously, just compare the base stats of the Vaga and the Ishtar, it is a goddamn joke.
Anathmarr
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#146 - 2013-07-18 13:54:22 UTC
Gonna have to jump on the bandwagon, haven't really gone through the whole thread, maybe I should but I'm lazy. Anyway, I love the sac for its looks and the idea of it, but it fails on all accounts, too low dmg and speed to qualify as an attack shi, heavy interdictors outdo it in a heavy tackle roll. Also the cerb needs a bonus to cap, ive never found a cerb fit able to to hold its cap, and if you're making it kitey you kinda need to beable to run that MWD and hardeners.
David Kir
Hotbirds
#147 - 2013-07-18 13:55:37 UTC
Yanarix Blitz wrote:
David Kir wrote:
Yanarix Blitz wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus.
This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler

Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.


close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance?

did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga.

its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg...
... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable



Errrr...have you ever flown a Sleipnir?
A Maelstrom, or an active tanked Proteus, for that matter?
Any Hawks and Harpies?
Active boosting is for PVE?


must be the reason you see so many active tanked maels and proteus around these days... you sir are a ****** ;)

furthermore just because mael and sleipnir got a active boosting bonus doesnt mean the vaga needs one too. if i want active boosting i fly a sleipnir you tard guess why? cus it already has a boosting bonus.
its abut variety of choices not making all the same, otherwise we could stomp all ships and restrict eve to nubships only



Cut down the "tard" talk or you'll get reported, and stop being an angry douche.

Ok, your turn: tell us how to rebalance dem HACs.
Tell us.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#148 - 2013-07-18 13:56:02 UTC
Seriously the drone bonus on the Ishtar

How would you feel about giving the zealot 1 gun and then giving it 1 gun per level in HAC's? Its a really silly bonus.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Yanarix Blitz
Black Scare
#149 - 2013-07-18 13:56:53 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Pesadel0 wrote:
David Kir wrote:
Yanarix Blitz wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus.
This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler

Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.


close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance?

did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga.

its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg...
... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable



Errrr...have you ever flown a Sleipnir?
A Maelstrom, or an active tanked Proteus, for that matter?
Any Hawks and Harpies?
Active boosting is for PVE?



So how is making the vaga more like a sleipnir good for the vaga? Because that is the only remotely similar ship in those ships that you mentioned to the vaga.


All of those are frequently active tanked ships.
All of those quite used, and very much successful.
My point is: active tanks aren't only for PVE, and I'm right.
That is it.

You can still use your beloved Vagabond as you did, in that it hasn't changed by one single bit.
But now you can also ASB it, if you're brave and good enough to do so, and be a very capable brawler.



no i can not as i did, cus IT GETS ******* 25%!!!! SLOWER
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#150 - 2013-07-18 13:56:54 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Two step wrote:
Sac should get some sort of scram/disrutper/web range/strength bonus instead of the mostly useless cap bonus.


or how about a racial bonus to em damage for missiles?


I agree the sacrilege has more potential bonuses to pick from instead of being pigeon holed into a brawling ship which is a shame as if you look at other options for the same price ... Navy drake is so much better ..... i was hoping all HACs would be more vaga based .. i.e. speed and dps/damage projection ... also HICS outank these..


it does seem odd that they choose for some hacs to be "combat" and others to be "attack"

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
TheButcherPete
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#151 - 2013-07-18 13:57:56 UTC
Ishtar still has that absolutely silly HAC bonus of range :| and the 50m3/lvl is annoying

a Dominix doesn't need Battleship 5 to have 375m3 of drone bay, but an Ishtar does.

[b]THE KING OF EVE RADIO

If EVE is real, does that mean all of us are RMTrs?[/b]
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2013-07-18 13:57:57 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Pesadel0 wrote:
David Kir wrote:
Yanarix Blitz wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus.
This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler

Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.


close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance?

did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga.

its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg...
... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable



Errrr...have you ever flown a Sleipnir?
A Maelstrom, or an active tanked Proteus, for that matter?
Any Hawks and Harpies?
Active boosting is for PVE?



So how is making the vaga more like a sleipnir good for the vaga? Because that is the only remotely similar ship in those ships that you mentioned to the vaga.


All of those are frequently active tanked ships.
All of those quite used, and very much successful.
My point is: active tanks aren't only for PVE, and I'm right.
That is it.

You can still use your beloved Vagabond as you did, in that it hasn't changed by one single bit.
But now you can also ASB it, if you're brave and good enough to do so, and be a very capable brawler.



What i'am saying is that the bonus to the vaga puts her in a role that frankly i dont think suits her , but to make her do just thta give her a med and take a low or something, what i would prefer is a bonus to damage or to speed to tank in speed but hey i still live in the old nano times...
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2013-07-18 13:58:47 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Seriously the drone bonus on the Ishtar

How would you feel about giving the zealot 1 gun and then giving it 1 gun per level in HAC's? Its a really silly bonus.

How about just the Ishtar in general, it like they went "awe **** it, it just a drone ship they will ***** but oh well".
It is sub par compared to the vexor navy issue.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#154 - 2013-07-18 14:00:08 UTC
I have to say I'm fairly disappointed in this balance round so far(HACS), I hope this gets some serious rework before it's released.

Active tanked 5low Sac is just lame, unless you give it another launcher or something to make up for it's lack of dps.

Ishtars CPU is still horrid, and most of the HACs in general lack CPU

Eagle is too slow, atleast make it 185 or 190.

Muninn, designed for sniping, has a utility high, what? give it a mid instead of the high.

I don't think most of the HACs would be overpowered from receving another slot in total either, not looked that much into how that would pan out but this just seems lacking and I fear for the Command Ship rebalancing stage now.
David Kir
Hotbirds
#155 - 2013-07-18 14:00:14 UTC
Yanarix Blitz wrote:


no i can not as i did, cus IT GETS ******* 25%!!!! SLOWER


Oh lord.

The speed bonus was integrated in the hull.

Read up before playing the fool.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#156 - 2013-07-18 14:00:42 UTC
Voith wrote:
Why do drone ships still have a slot penalty? The slot penalty was from "back in the day" when there was almost no drone upgrades. It has been 5+ years since that penalty was relevant. Stop putting it on new ships. Drone boats are hardly used enough to justify a penalty these days.


Also the Ishtar still has the cripplingly low CPU it inherited from the Tier 2 Vexor almost a decade ago.


Also, the role bonus will rarely be used on most HACs.


Indeed, I have always dreamed of a shield tanked Ishtar DPS machine that could fit small neuts/vamps in the high utilities, that did not need faction stuff and a CPU upgrade.

Look at the fit below with the current stats. It STILL needs a 1% CPU implant to work, even with the faction shield extenders, while having 79 PG that is wasted.

Guess we will never see an Ishtar that can actually make use of all it's grid given the huge limitations on CPU.

[Ishtar, Short Range DPS]
Damage Control II
Co-Processor II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender
Caldari Navy Large Shield Extender
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Ogre II x5
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#157 - 2013-07-18 14:01:50 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Why is the Ishtar not getting some fitting buff, the vexor has +100 power grid and +15 CPU

The vexor is gun bonused and sort of expected to use them, the ishtar is not. You can fit a 1600mm plate based tank and "basically anything you want" to the vexor already if you don't make much use of the highs, or you can fill your highs with utility modules at the cost of a lighter tank and tighter fitting. It's a fair trade off.


"It fits if you leave 5 slots empty" is not a very convincing argument for the Ishtar having sufficient CPU.

Even drone boats have a use for those high slots.. DLA IIs are 55 CPU each, for instance.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#158 - 2013-07-18 14:07:07 UTC
incorporate t1 changes and redo

tia in advance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
David Kir
Hotbirds
#159 - 2013-07-18 14:07:52 UTC
Pesadel0 wrote:
[

What i'am saying is that the bonus to the vaga puts her in a role that frankly i dont think suits her , but to make her do just thta give her a med and take a low or something, what i would prefer is a bonus to damage or to speed to tank in speed but hey i still live in the old nano times...


It got a sig bonus, which should marginally help its tank.
As for the "nano times"... they're over.
CCP is pushing EVE towards aggressive, risky tactics, which is where the AB bonus fits.
The buff to armor tanks, the speed disparity decrease, the incoming OGB fix, etc., all good and explodey stuff.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2013-07-18 14:08:51 UTC
This worries me for the T3 balance, many of these ships cant compete with the Navy balance pass. Will this mean T3 ships will be worse than T1?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.