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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers

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NorthCrossroad
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2013-07-18 13:31:08 UTC
Pretty good changes. But I think you've forgot one race to make it in line with others.

Each race as usual gets either resist or active tank bonus. Everything in line except for gallente. Give one of the gallente hacs such bonus. F.e. put ishtar drone bay bonus inside the hull and give the armor rep bonus as a skill.

North
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2013-07-18 13:31:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Akturous
David Kir wrote:


Te issue isn't the comparison between it and the Sleipnir, it's the comparison between it and the other HACs.
A 1000 dps tank is a huge thing, for a cruiser, and even more so for a kiting ship.
The LASB fits work pretty nicely, in my opinion.
Now if they fixed offgrid boosting, and thus all of those speed creeps you can find around, the Vaga would fall right back into its previous niche.


Till you run out of charges, then you're stuffed. Balancing around the clearly obcene unbalanced bonuses that t2 links give you atm isn't a good idea.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#123 - 2013-07-18 13:31:52 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
these or therefore lack of will have virtually no impact on there usage.

I was expecting a more extreme buff perhaps more like the navy attack cruisers ... boy i was WRONG.....
15 slots only its T2 why not the +2 slots that the AF's get over T1 frigs .. where's the advantage over navy here?
50% is too low without reducing there sig radius especially on shield HACS
For the 150-200mil price tag these come with making them compete with Navy bc's for tank is stupid.. competing with sniping ABC's is even worse idea.

Overall CCP Rise back to the drawing board here


Considering that we've been shouting at the top of our lungs for a year that T2 won't get buffed as much as T1 was, I don't know why you're surprised.


well thats easy... there is no sound in space.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#124 - 2013-07-18 13:37:06 UTC
About the Ishtar:

The domi's bonus for drones is nice, but why is the slot layout still so heavily taylored towards shield tanking and the CPU still WAY too low to fit any semblance of a serious spider tank?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#125 - 2013-07-18 13:37:36 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
these or therefore lack of will have virtually no impact on there usage.

I was expecting a more extreme buff perhaps more like the navy attack cruisers ... boy i was WRONG.....
15 slots only its T2 why not the +2 slots that the AF's get over T1 frigs .. where's the advantage over navy here?
50% is too low without reducing there sig radius especially on shield HACS
For the 150-200mil price tag these come with making them compete with Navy bc's for tank is stupid.. competing with sniping ABC's is even worse idea.

Overall CCP Rise back to the drawing board here


Considering that we've been shouting at the top of our lungs for a year that T2 won't get buffed as much as T1 was, I don't know why you're surprised.


well thats easy... there is no sound in space.


i just noticed i meant to put the word change in after therefore .. LOL

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#126 - 2013-07-18 13:38:32 UTC
Two step wrote:
Sac should get some sort of scram/disrutper/web range/strength bonus instead of the mostly useless cap bonus.


or how about a racial bonus to em damage for missiles?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Sushi Nardieu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2013-07-18 13:38:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Sushi Nardieu
The Muninn doesn't feel like it's going to change the meta at all. But that could just be me.

I quite like the changes. Was hoping to get more DPS from HAM SACs but it gets some other buffs which are nice too. -

The Guns of Knowledge 
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#128 - 2013-07-18 13:38:48 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
About the Ishtar:

The domi's bonus for drones is nice, but why is the slot layout still so heavily taylored towards shield tanking and the CPU still WAY too low to fit any semblance of a serious spider tank?


The ishtar needs a more unique flavour to it and unique drone bonus would be nice otherwise i still like the NVexor more..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2013-07-18 13:38:53 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Pesadel0 wrote:
David Kir wrote:
Jureth22 wrote:
thanks for ruining the vagabond.also,eagle changes are mostly insignificant.back to drawing board


Ruining the Vagabond?

I hope you're trolling: the contrary would mean you're stupid.



Well iam with david restringing the vaga to a shield bonus is ****...

And lol at people buying hacs at 2 weeks ago.


Wait what?

I actually like the new Vagabond, it looks like a beast!


sorry i mistyped i mean "i agree with jureth".
David Kir
Hotbirds
#130 - 2013-07-18 13:40:08 UTC
Yanarix Blitz wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus.
This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler

Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.


close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance?

did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga.

its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg...
... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable



Errrr...have you ever flown a Sleipnir?
A Maelstrom, or an active tanked Proteus, for that matter?
Any Hawks and Harpies?
Active boosting is for PVE?

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#131 - 2013-07-18 13:41:41 UTC
The entire concept of the MwD sig bonus is total waste as a concept.
On an AF, it matters, since the sig bloom change impacted how large turrets hit a MwD'ed AF.

But guess what. The sig bloom of the new buffed Assault Cruiser is STILL BIGGER than the sig size of a BS class gun.
BS class guns will still hit just as hard as they did before.

So this bonus is meaningless.
Please go back to the drawingboard and re-think all these changes.

I love to see a reason for people to actually fly these over the Navy counterparts.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#132 - 2013-07-18 13:41:56 UTC
Carka Gerschen wrote:
So just for my understanding. The Ishtar actually loses a slot and doesn't gain any fitting resources. It is already impossible to fit decently without going for a nanofit. I guess that is the thing you want with them, with no other viable options there.

Regards,

Carka


drone boats always have one less slot... the ishtar was op when it had 15

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#133 - 2013-07-18 13:42:01 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Two step wrote:
Sac should get some sort of scram/disrutper/web range/strength bonus instead of the mostly useless cap bonus.


or how about a racial bonus to em damage for missiles?


I agree the sacrilege has more potential bonuses to pick from instead of being pigeon holed into a brawling ship which is a shame as if you look at other options for the same price ... Navy drake is so much better ..... i was hoping all HACs would be more vaga based .. i.e. speed and dps/damage projection ... also HICS outank these..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Pesadel0
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2013-07-18 13:42:40 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Yanarix Blitz wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus.
This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler

Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.


close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance?

did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga.

its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg...
... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable



Errrr...have you ever flown a Sleipnir?
A Maelstrom, or an active tanked Proteus, for that matter?
Any Hawks and Harpies?
Active boosting is for PVE?



So how is making the vaga more like a sleipnir good for the vaga? Because that is the only remotely similar ship in those ships that you mentioned to the vaga.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#135 - 2013-07-18 13:43:16 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
The entire concept of the MwD sig bonus is total waste as a concept.
On an AF, it matters, since the sig bloom change impacted how large turrets hit a MwD'ed AF.

But guess what. The sig bloom of the new buffed Assault Cruiser is STILL BIGGER than the sig size of a BS class gun.
BS class guns will still hit just as hard as they did before.

So this bonus is meaningless.
Please go back to the drawingboard and re-think all these changes.

I love to see a reason for people to actually fly these over the Navy counterparts.


yes either a stronger bonus to mwd ... or reduce their sig radius .. or both

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Yanarix Blitz
Black Scare
#136 - 2013-07-18 13:44:49 UTC
wondering if this is a nerf hidden under the term "buff" cus that it looks like to everyone who's actually playing the game...

do you dudes have too much time/mone to think about changing working stuff instead of bringing new content? - cus the last 3 expansions weren't taht great content wise, and POS is still crap!

ohwait... i guess you'll start doing something usefull again once subscriptions gooing back and you realised you only producing hot air and ****!
Antoine Jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2013-07-18 13:46:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Antoine Jordan
Any thoughts to adding a drone speed/mwd speed bonus to the Ishtar? would help across the board and maybe make heavies viable (haha ok maybe that's going a bit too far). It's really the only aspect of drones that doesn't have a bonus on the hull now.

also the CPU is pathetic for a drone boat :( Really needs some help there!
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#138 - 2013-07-18 13:46:48 UTC
Ishtar's CPU is still VERY subpar. This is REQUIRED for it to be considered "Rebalanced".

The Vagabond is, imo, far too similar to what it was pre-rebalance.

Notice how the two Minmatar HACs have 3 and 4 medslots ? This isn't really...I mean, there is no novelty.

I heard you wanted T2 ships to be specialized. HACs are specialized as hard-hitting gankboats, mostly. The focus should be put on guns, right ?

You want the Vagabond to be the shield HAC. Let's make it so. -1 Highslot, +1 Medslot. There you go.

It's not a Cynabal, because it has an active shield-tanking bonus. It doesn't have a medium neut, which makes it a bit more vulnerable to frigates. But it has 5 medslots to either make it more of an active-shield-tanking ship, or provide a web defense versus frigates and such. It also has less drones than the Cynabal. All those things combined makes the Vagabond specialized as opposed to the jack-of-all-trades Cynabal. A slight PWG buff would help too, so that you can finally fit 425mms or attempt an arty-fit Vagabond.

The Vagabond has been overshadowed by the Cynabal and the Talos for too long.

What do you think about that ?

The Deimos' signature radius is over the top. It's even bigger than the specialized, long-range shield tanker Eagle.
Considering the Vagabonds' sig and the Cerberus' sig, the correct value should be around 125m.

That's it for now, maybe I'll notice other weird things later. But we're on the right tracks apparently Cool
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2013-07-18 13:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Voith
Why do drone ships still have a slot penalty? The slot penalty was from "back in the day" when there was almost no drone upgrades. It has been 5+ years since that penalty was relevant. Stop putting it on new ships. Drone boats are hardly used enough to justify a penalty these days.


Also the Ishtar still has the cripplingly low CPU it inherited from the Tier 2 Vexor almost a decade ago.


Also, the role bonus will rarely be used on most HACs.
Yanarix Blitz
Black Scare
#140 - 2013-07-18 13:50:36 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Yanarix Blitz wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus.
This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler

Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.


close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance?

did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga.

its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg...
... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable



Errrr...have you ever flown a Sleipnir?
A Maelstrom, or an active tanked Proteus, for that matter?
Any Hawks and Harpies?
Active boosting is for PVE?


must be the reason you see so many active tanked maels and proteus around these days... you sir are a ****** ;)

furthermore just because mael and sleipnir got a active boosting bonus doesnt mean the vaga needs one too. if i want active boosting i fly a sleipnir you tard guess why? cus it already has a boosting bonus.
its abut variety of choices not making all the same, otherwise we could stomp all ships and restrict eve to nubships only