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The Zimmerman and EVE

First post
Author
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#21 - 2013-07-18 06:41:12 UTC
wat What?
NeoShocker
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#22 - 2013-07-18 07:49:55 UTC  |  Edited by: NeoShocker
To be honest, I thought zimmerman is going to be guilty. 5 mom jurors. 4 white, 1 is minority.

After 16 hours of debate, he is not guilty. If the mothers say he is not guilty, I really don't understand the fuss of the "world" over reacting. :\

Did racism come into play? Most likely not. Key word here is "mothers". Yet people made the fuss of "racism" ...
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#23 - 2013-07-18 10:31:54 UTC
As a lawyer (not american) my opinion the problem is the "jury system". It seems like it always been the problem. But thats your law, and it is what counts.

Btw, why only 6 jury members? Not 12?

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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#24 - 2013-07-18 10:34:29 UTC
arabella blood wrote:
Btw, why only 6 jury members? Not 12?


That's what I was wondering too... maybe it's not always like in the movies. Blink

But yea, the system is not ideal... but then again, what system is?

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
#25 - 2013-07-18 10:37:35 UTC
I really hope that Zimmerman and victims of the racial attacks done by Trayvon supporters all across USA take the news networks for the cleaner. The race hustlers of MSNBC and CNN (and others) should pay the price, preferably with their jobs and personal wealth.

As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia

arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#26 - 2013-07-18 10:39:28 UTC
I found the answer. Second degree murder, not Capital, not death penalty - 6 jurors.

My opinion a bench trial with 6 judges is better...

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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#27 - 2013-07-18 11:04:20 UTC
Anna Karhunen wrote:
I really hope that Zimmerman and victims of the racial attacks done by Trayvon supporters all across USA take the news networks for the cleaner. The race hustlers of MSNBC and CNN (and others) should pay the price, preferably with their jobs and personal wealth.


See, and that's the second problem with the jury system right there... the omni-presence of the media in the western world.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

Anna Karhunen
Inoue INEXP
#28 - 2013-07-18 11:17:01 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Anna Karhunen wrote:
I really hope that Zimmerman and victims of the racial attacks done by Trayvon supporters all across USA take the news networks for the cleaner. The race hustlers of MSNBC and CNN (and others) should pay the price, preferably with their jobs and personal wealth.


See, and that's the second problem with the jury system right there... the omni-presence of the media in the western world.

Zimmerman dodged the bullet. Had media had the influence it hoped, Zimmerman would have been found guilty. Now, jury trials are not perfect, but I find many judges to have warped view of the world (I am Finn, by the way, so my view is not influenced by US cases only).

As my old maths teacher used to say: "Statistics are like bikinis: It's what they don't show that's interesting". -CCP Aporia

Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#29 - 2013-07-18 11:30:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Anna Karhunen wrote:
Now, jury trials are not perfect, but I find many judges to have warped view of the world (I am Finn, by the way, so my view is not influenced by US cases only).


True, but still... the way juries are handled in the US can be quite disturbing at times... there lieraly is "trading" and bartering for jury members going on, and that's considered normal practice in US courts. Roll

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)

arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#30 - 2013-07-18 11:30:21 UTC
Anna Karhunen wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Anna Karhunen wrote:
I really hope that Zimmerman and victims of the racial attacks done by Trayvon supporters all across USA take the news networks for the cleaner. The race hustlers of MSNBC and CNN (and others) should pay the price, preferably with their jobs and personal wealth.


See, and that's the second problem with the jury system right there... the omni-presence of the media in the western world.

Zimmerman dodged the bullet. Had media had the influence it hoped, Zimmerman would have been found guilty. Now, jury trials are not perfect, but I find many judges to have warped view of the world (I am Finn, by the way, so my view is not influenced by US cases only).


If the judges are like that, then the people are even more :)

Btw, can this be appealed? Its funny how each state has its own rules..

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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#31 - 2013-07-18 12:13:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
arabella blood wrote:
As a lawyer (not american) my opinion the problem is the "jury system". It seems like it always been the problem. But thats your law, and it is what counts.

Btw, why only 6 jury members? Not 12?



It decreases the likelihood of a hung jury. Well that is my opinion anyway.

arabella blood wrote:

If the judges are like that, then the people are even more :)

Btw, can this be appealed? Its funny how each state has its own rules..


Appeal is a option only for the one who is found guilty and prosecuted for said crime. The prosecutor has no option to appeal. Double Jeopardy is the term used to define the right not to be tried twice for the same crime. That being said Zimmerman can be sued in civil court and be found guilty there. The punishment in civil court is purely monetary.

EDIT: The beauty of civil court though is that if someone wants to sue Zimmerman civilly and he is found not guilty, the suing party is responsible for all attorney fees and all court costs and can also be counter sued.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#32 - 2013-07-18 12:42:16 UTC
Prosecution can't appeal after found not guilty? OMG, i so want it here :)
Here both sides can appeal after a verdict, no matter which one, but the judges aren't hearing evidence again. So basicly you can appeal with regarding of law/procedure matters only. Sometimes the appeal court can send the sides back to the original court for more evidence hearing.
It is more of a mechanism to review the judges decision, it is never a "new" trial. Thus double jeopardy doesn't exist, in fact it only happend 3 times in the country history :)

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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#33 - 2013-07-18 13:12:16 UTC
arabella blood wrote:
Prosecution can't appeal after found not guilty? OMG, i so want it here :)
Here both sides can appeal after a verdict, no matter which one, but the judges aren't hearing evidence again. So basicly you can appeal with regarding of law/procedure matters only. Sometimes the appeal court can send the sides back to the original court for more evidence hearing.
It is more of a mechanism to review the judges decision, it is never a "new" trial. Thus double jeopardy doesn't exist, in fact it only happend 3 times in the country history :)



To make it a bit more clear I will link the following.


"What Is Double Jeopardy?
The Double Jeopardy clause guarantee's that a person will not be tried twice for the same crime or offense in the same jurisdiction. Double jeopardy occurs if someone is charged with a crime and found innocent, and then charged with the same crime a second time.

Double Jeopardy Protects against Three Different Types of Abuses
A second prosecution for the same offense after conviction
A second prosecution for the same offense after acquittal
Multiple punishments for the same offense
Exceptions to the Double Jeopardy Clause
An individual can be tried twice based on the same facts as long as the elements of each crime are different.
Different jurisdictions can charge the same individual with the same crime based on the same facts without violating double jeopardy. For example, the federal and state governments can try the same defendant for the same conduct as long as some aspect of the defendant's conduct violated both a federal and a state law.
Double jeopardy prohibits only more than one criminal prosecution based on the same facts and same crime. Thus, even after a defendant is acquitted criminally, a civil suit may still be brought.
Examples
If a defendant is tried for a burglary that allegedly occurred at 1234 Green Street on January 1, 2000 and is acquitted, the defendant cannot be tried a second time for the burglary of that same house on the same date.

If the defendant is tried and acquitted for allegedly selling cocaine at 1234 Green Street on January 1, 2000 to Bill, that same defendant can still be tried for allegedly selling cocaine at 1234 Green Street on January 1, 2000 to John. Each time the cocaine is sold is a separate act and a separate offense, and each can be tried without violating the double jeopardy clause.

What Can You Do if You Are Being Charged Twice for the Same Crime?
If you believe that you are being prosecuted twice for the same crime, you should speak to a lawyer immediately to learn more about your rights, your defenses, and the complicated legal system."
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#34 - 2013-07-18 13:23:12 UTC
We have different systems, i was talking about my country :)

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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#35 - 2013-07-18 14:36:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
arabella blood wrote:
We have different systems, i was talking about my country :)


I know Blink I was just providing a little bit more insite to how double jeopardy works as my presentation was very simplistic and, as we both know, law is rarely as cut and dry as how I explained double jeopardy.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#36 - 2013-07-18 15:26:42 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:
arabella blood wrote:
We have different systems, i was talking about my country :)


I know Blink I was just providing a little bit more insite to how double jeopardy works as my presentation was very simplistic and, as we both know, law is rarely as cut and dry as how I explained double jeopardy.


Im actually sad Double Jeopardy barely exist in my country...it would be the most epic defence i can think of, second only to "no case to answer".

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Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#37 - 2013-07-18 15:45:36 UTC
I don't get why the Liberal Democrats are hatin on a Hispanic.
It's not like a white dude shot him.
Also, from hearing his girlfriends talkin with Piers Morgan, it seems Trayvon jumped Zimmerman because he thought dude was gay. Isn't that a hate crime?

Final point.... don't bring skittles to a gun fight!

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"

Tumahub
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-07-18 17:17:57 UTC
Quote:
As for the moral status of majority rule, it must be pointed out that it allows for A and B to band together to rip off C, C and A in turn joining to rip off B, and then B and C conspiring against A, and so on. (Democracy, the God that failed, 2001).
Hells Merc
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-07-19 00:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Hells Merc
Diablo Ex wrote:

"Final point.... don't bring skittles to a gun fight!"


Important point.




Was thinking....I would hate to be gay..... is that a hate crime ?
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-07-19 03:38:53 UTC
arabella blood wrote:
Anna Karhunen wrote:
Shalua Rui wrote:
Anna Karhunen wrote:
I really hope that Zimmerman and victims of the racial attacks done by Trayvon supporters all across USA take the news networks for the cleaner. The race hustlers of MSNBC and CNN (and others) should pay the price, preferably with their jobs and personal wealth.


See, and that's the second problem with the jury system right there... the omni-presence of the media in the western world.

Zimmerman dodged the bullet. Had media had the influence it hoped, Zimmerman would have been found guilty. Now, jury trials are not perfect, but I find many judges to have warped view of the world (I am Finn, by the way, so my view is not influenced by US cases only).


If the judges are like that, then the people are even more :)

Btw, can this be appealed? Its funny how each state has its own rules..


No, once a verdict is decided that is it. It's called Double Jeopardy... I think Alex Trebek came up with the name

However he can still be sued, however if he was acquitted that probably won't work.

Note: Not guilty and acquitted are 2 different things. The newspaper mentioned acquitted but I don't trust them

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