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Please don't get mad if ship skins are on the NeX store

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Tristan North
The Scope
#181 - 2011-11-09 21:12:57 UTC
Jacob cirth wrote:


How is it better than the traditional way of releasing content to us?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#182 - 2011-11-09 21:14:04 UTC
Quote:
Here's a hint: You dont need extra real life money to create a Tier 3 BC. You do with any NeX item.



I pay for all NeX items with ISK, as can you.
I will pay for Tier 3 BC with ISK, as will you.

If I don't have the ISK for either one I can pay cash instead, as can you.

I am not being forced to pay double if I wish to aquire either one unless I wish to.

Sorry you are having difficulty understanding this fundamental point, but there it is.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#183 - 2011-11-09 21:14:56 UTC
Tristan North wrote:
Jacob cirth wrote:


How is it better than the traditional way of releasing content to us?





Because it allows a common marketing system with DUST.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tristan North
The Scope
#184 - 2011-11-09 21:17:23 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tristan North wrote:
Jacob cirth wrote:


How is it better than the traditional way of releasing content to us?





Because it allows a common marketing system with DUST.

LOL
Jacob cirth
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2011-11-09 21:17:41 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tristan North wrote:
Jacob cirth wrote:


How is it better than the traditional way of releasing content to us?





Because it allows a common marketing system with DUST.

Yes, but how is it BETTER? It's not.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#186 - 2011-11-09 21:24:11 UTC
Jacob cirth wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tristan North wrote:
Jacob cirth wrote:


How is it better than the traditional way of releasing content to us?





Because it allows a common marketing system with DUST.

Yes, but how is it BETTER? It's not.


Not necessarily better, but necessary.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2011-11-09 21:25:11 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tristan North wrote:
Jacob cirth wrote:


How is it better than the traditional way of releasing content to us?





Because it allows a common marketing system with DUST.

What about after Dust fails?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#188 - 2011-11-09 21:26:27 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Tristan North wrote:
Jacob cirth wrote:


How is it better than the traditional way of releasing content to us?





Because it allows a common marketing system with DUST.

What about after Dust fails?



We'll burn that bridge when we come to it. Big smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2011-11-09 21:30:07 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:

What about after Dust fails?



We'll burn that bridge when we come to it. Big smile

Start planning now. I doubt it will be around long enough to make arrangements after it launches

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#190 - 2011-11-09 21:34:13 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:

What about after Dust fails?



We'll burn that bridge when we come to it. Big smile

Start planning now. I doubt it will be around long enough to make arrangements after it launches


You could be right. A lot of innovative idea's never become commercially successful.

I personally hope you are wrong.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2011-11-09 21:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: DarkAegix
Tristan North wrote:
Jacob cirth wrote:


How is it better than the traditional way of releasing content to us?




Because CCP don't need to delay ships for the umpteenth time. Again. The NeX store is quick, dirty and safe.

If skins were to be on the LP store, the following questions will need to be asked:

Will there be an extra way to make skins, through player manufacturing?
Player designed, or blueprints?
What do you need to purchase or manufacture a skin?
Will you buy skinned ships, or 'paint cans' which you use on ships?
Will skinned ships, or 'paint cans' be on the market? They should, given that it'd be player driven.
Where's the one-stop place for players to conveniently browse through available skins?
How can the base prices of skins easily be regulated as a whole, from the one store database?
Will skinned ships even support the LP store right now, given inventory IDs and whatnot which will be the same as unskinned, or differently skinned counterparts?
Which LP store will sell the more 'generic' skins, with no particular faction/corporation theme?
When custom corp logos on ships become available, will LP stores inexplicably sell those too? Or will it be on yet another store, leaving the ship customisation interface split?
What will be most profitable for CCP?
How will the vanity items of ship skins affect the prices of non-vanity items such as CNRs and other LP items? Is this a good thing?
If a player wants to skin their Rokh with a Mordus skin, will they need to be required to fly to a Mordus LP store? How many extra LP stores do we need to introduce?
Would it be fitting for players to buy pirate skins from faction LP stores? Where does the plot fit?
How can skinning a ship be most convenient for a player?
Will LP stores and the market need to be updated with a specialised skin-browsing interface, so players can see more than tiny icons and get a preview of the skin quickly and easily? How will the plethora of skins be sorted along with all of the other items? When will the scroll bar get too painful to scroll through?
Will be be able to reskin ships? Will this mean that LP stores need every single combination of a skin-exchange listed? Or do all ships need a new identifier value?
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#192 - 2011-11-09 21:45:01 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Because CCP don't need to delay ships for the umpteenth time.

It is hilarious that you keep saying this. Why would it delay anything to use the LP store or just create a dropdown menu in the ship fitting window with a list of all the skins?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2011-11-09 21:48:52 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Because CCP don't need to delay ships for the umpteenth time.

Why would it delay anything to use the LP store or just create a dropdown menu in the ship fitting window with a list of all the skins?

This the part where you realise that you were somehow incompetent enough to miss 90.2% of the words in my post.
Good job.
That takes a special kind of person.
Hallorin
Doomheim
#194 - 2011-11-09 21:54:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hallorin
Jacob cirth wrote:
Hallorin wrote:
Jacob cirth wrote:


I already pay $15/month, why should I pay more? Time to face the fact that this is a failed experiment, and it deserved to fail.


This is more of the same Aur/Nex is AUTOMATICALLY bad crap that gets bandied about here too much.

Now don't misunderstand me here. I am not arguing that NeX is great or that CCP will make good on what I am about to suggest but I'll try to prove that Aur/NeX is not automatically bad and that it doesn't NECESSARILY amount to double charging.


Image, just for example, if some outside company or a modder created an add-on for EVE that contained, I don't know, some vanity items. Imagine CCP wasn't making these but a lot of players wanted them and they did not affect gameplay except in some vanity way.

Now imagine CCP said, sure we don't care, it's ok, not against the EULA - go ahead.

If outside company or modder charged for this service, nobody would say CCP was double charging them - because it would be money going to someone else entirely.

Now imagine if instead, CCP, who was busy pumping out new ships, engine trails, shots that miss, hybrid balancing, UI upgrades, Beautiful backrounds, etc said:

"Hey, why don't we create a new department that we can't really afford to pay, and they can create content that players like but these guys will sell it via MT. They will exist solely to provide the content that the players can pay for and support that department by buying"

In other words, Just like the outside modder, No MT = No ability to provide that content. CCP is busy providing the all the content that subs can pay for but this new department functions just like the outside modder. It generates content based on the ADDITIONAL influx of money.

So CCP isn't double charging in such a case -- not if they are busy providing all the actual content that subs can buy, which, it appears they are doing right now.

If it was otherwise, CCP would not have just laid a bunch of people off.

I swear some of you would be happier if CCP just said "You are right, We can't afford to make ship skins without MT so no ship skins for you."



Edit: I feel I should reiterate. I'm not saying this IS what's happening. I don't know. Maybe CCP could just give us all of this. But it COULD be happening, and it most definitely could happen more in the future.

I mean seriously, DUST is in some distant way a 'part' of eve. should they just give that away too so they don't 'double-charge' you?

Correct, they shouldn't charge us twice for content we've already paid for. I don't care if it's some sub department "they can't really pay for". That's their poor business decision, but in no way entitles them to double charge me. End of story.



End of story huh? Just like that

Did you even read my post? It wouldn't be content you've already paid for!

NeX either now has, or has the potential to have content that you have NOT paid for. Without prospects for MT, many of these things may never have been implemented.

Again, just imagine (and actually do it this time) that eve said:

A lot of people want a hugely expanded selection of clothing in the NeX store, but hey, eve players have spoken, we will dedicate ourselves to FIS and FIS only. NONE of your subscription money will go to development of these items.

But, money that we make on these items WILL go towards creating these items. Money we make in the NeX store will be used to fund the develpment of new NeX items.

Actually don't imagine -- This is exactly what they have said. (see edit)

How are you being double charged? Your subscription dollar is buying exactly what you wanted it to buy. FIS content, and by the looks of the winter expansion, some pretty good FIS content too.

Suppose I could prove to you, in fact, with accounting tables, etc that NONE of your subscription money went towards creating this stuff -- If that were the case, how would the mere existence of a NeX store imply that you were being double charged?



Edit: Here's the initial and relevant claims from CCP on the NeX store from one of the first dev blogs about it

Quote:
What I'm driving at is that a lot of people want to be able to customize their characters, ships or surroundings to either make themselves stand out or because they like pretty things or maybe they just like playing dress up. I don't know and I'm not one to judge.

The problem with customizability, however, is the amount of time and resources needed to produce unique items and variations. Bear in mind that our HQ is a renovated fish processing plant, not the Wonka factory, and we're fresh out of Oompa Loompas to build these incredible things. So we're left with the question of how to give you the customizability and uniqueness you want without simply raising the subscription rate.

Enter virtual goods sales.
The Offerer
Doomheim
#195 - 2011-11-09 21:57:47 UTC  |  Edited by: The Offerer
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Here's a hint: You dont need extra real life money to create a Tier 3 BC. You do with any NeX item.



I pay for all NeX items with ISK, as can you.
I will pay for Tier 3 BC with ISK, as will you.

If I don't have the ISK for either one I can pay cash instead, as can you.

I am not being forced to pay double if I wish to aquire either one unless I wish to.

Sorry you are having difficulty understanding this fundamental point, but there it is.


What part of this graph would you like to be removed from the game because of non-vanity MT item and which other parts of the gameplay will be affected with the removal of need or a significant decrease of demand for a certain player generated item?

http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1106/MTGraph01.jpg

NeX items, that are by the definition vanity items only, does not affect delicate connections in an environment with player generated content and player run economy. Yes, you can buy everything with ISK, but the important part is where the products are coming from and how will it affect the rest of the gameplay.

By saying:

Quote:
I pay for all NeX items with ISK, as can you.
I will pay for Tier 3 BC with ISK, as will you.

If I don't have the ISK for either one I can pay cash instead, as can you.


you just show that you have a typical consumer mentality. You just don't care where the goods are coming from and who's affected by the method of its production as long as you can buy them.Blink That, however, is very important in this game.

edit: I'm maybe a bit off with an assumption about your point or views in the thread as a whole since I didn't have time to read it all, so I apologize for any misunderstanding in advance. This post only shows the difference between non-vanity and vanity items for AUR.
Aldan Romar
Doomheim
#196 - 2011-11-09 22:02:42 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
... then we will know by their actions that they don't regret NEX at all -- they just regret that we didn't all drop to our knees and blow them for it.
CCP regrets the NEX and not that it didn't turn out the way they planned?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#197 - 2011-11-09 22:03:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
The Offerer wrote:
What part of this graph would you like to be removed from the game because of non-vanity MT item and which other parts of the gameplay will be affected with the removal of need or a significant decrease of demand for a certain player generated item?


Derp

You forgot that to generate a skinned ship you actually need a player-manufactured hull, and the skin.

.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#198 - 2011-11-09 22:04:49 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Because CCP don't need to delay ships for the umpteenth time.

Why would it delay anything to use the LP store or just create a dropdown menu in the ship fitting window with a list of all the skins?

This the part where you realise that you were somehow incompetent enough to miss 90.2% of the words in my post.
Good job.
That takes a special kind of person.

Ok then explain in really small words why anything would need to be delayed if they weren't going to put ship skins on the NeX.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#199 - 2011-11-09 22:05:13 UTC
The Offerer wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Quote:
Here's a hint: You dont need extra real life money to create a Tier 3 BC. You do with any NeX item.



I pay for all NeX items with ISK, as can you.
I will pay for Tier 3 BC with ISK, as will you.

If I don't have the ISK for either one I can pay cash instead, as can you.

I am not being forced to pay double if I wish to aquire either one unless I wish to.

Sorry you are having difficulty understanding this fundamental point, but there it is.


What part of this graph would you like to be removed from the game because of non-vanity MT item and which other parts of the gameplay will be affected with the removal of need or a significant decrease of demand for a certain player generated item?

http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1106/MTGraph01.jpg

NeX items, that are by the definition vanity items only, does not affect delicate connections in an environment with player generated content and player run economy. Yes, you can buy everything with ISK, but the important part is where the products are coming from and how will it affect the rest of the gameplay.

By saying:

Quote:
I pay for all NeX items with ISK, as can you.
I will pay for Tier 3 BC with ISK, as will you.

If I don't have the ISK for either one I can pay cash instead, as can you.


you just show that you have a typical consumer mentality. You just don't care where the goods are coming from and who's affected by the method of its production as long as you can buy them.Blink That, however, is very important in this game.


Excellent points, which we have already covered. It's perfectly understandable that you missed it, this thread has expanded quickly.

The quick and dirty response is simply that development of the NeX store interface is still being expanded so that it can properly handle selling BPC's or accept player made goods as part of the purchase price.

For reference check the interview's conducted during the Allaince Tournament and Dev Blogs explaining why the Ishukone Watch scorpion was not put up for sale via the NeX until after one solution or the other was functional.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#200 - 2011-11-09 22:10:54 UTC
Roime wrote:


You forgot that to generate a skinned ship you actually need a player-manufactured hull, and the skin.



Quoting to remind people that you will need the t1 ship and the ship skin bpc to make the skinned ship.


WHICH will be destroyable and make epic kill mails and tears.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.