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Why would anyone fly a Vargur?
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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-07-17 02:22:35 UTC
John Ratcliffe wrote:
hellcane wrote:
You are fitting it wrong.

Fit it right and you have a ship that's on par with mach.


Yes. With less ammo use as well.



Serious issue with a mach, that thing is always out of ammo.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#22 - 2013-07-17 09:48:07 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Serious issue with a mach, that thing is always out of ammo.


Not only does the Vargur consume less ammo than the Mach, it can also carry more.

(Don't undererstimate the cargo capacity of a marauder with cargohold expansions. It's ideal for the nomadic lifestyle and can even carry a shuttle for quick trips.)
Whitehound
#23 - 2013-07-17 10:10:17 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Serious issue with a mach, that thing is always out of ammo.


Not only does the Vargur consume less ammo than the Mach, it can also carry more.

(Don't undererstimate the cargo capacity of a marauder with cargohold expansions. It's ideal for the nomadic lifestyle and can even carry a shuttle for quick trips.)

Not sure if the majority will see this as a good thing when one needs to point out the size of the cargohold when comparing two battleship-sized hulls. X

The Machariel has got 100mbits (125m3) drone bandwitdh, which for a non-designated droneboat is quite a lot. The Kronos (Gallente Marauder) has got only 75mbits and so has the Vargur. I hope it changes with the next rebalancing step and for the Machariel to lose some of it and for the Kronos to get some more.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
tayjor
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#24 - 2013-07-17 10:22:42 UTC
When I tanked "Smash the Supplier" with my Vargur without warping out, I put my Mach in the hanger. That ended the argument for me.
BlackPlague
Dark Light Inc
Caretakers
#25 - 2013-07-17 20:46:53 UTC
Both are very fine ships

As a lazy 2 char running lvl 4 missioner a 800mm vargur or 800 /1400 machariel is an excellent partner for my Paladin/Kronos other pilot.

Play style dictates fit and I rarely fit propulsion mods just sit there and dish it out.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-07-17 21:13:05 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Not only does the Vargur consume less ammo than the Mach, it can also carry more.

(Don't undererstimate the cargo capacity of a marauder with cargohold expansions. It's ideal for the nomadic lifestyle and can even carry a shuttle for quick trips.)

Not sure if the majority will see this as a good thing when one needs to point out the size of the cargohold when comparing two battleship-sized hulls. X


Depending on your goal it might actually be something of a deciding factor that a fully expanded vargur can pack 3875m3 cargo. On the one hand iIf you put a solid T2 frigate in it you can use it to blitz L1 missions (if for some reason you actually need to do them somewhere) and L2 missions before using the vargur to clean up L3s and L4s for a bit of quick rep grinding. Of course on the other hand the paladin packs almost 50% more (6162m3), doesn't use ammo for all intents and purposes if you stick with T1 crystals, and as such can pack a lot more mods to help out with whatever situations may arise.

On the gripping hand a well-flown T3 ship would likely trump either in that role so their usefulness/validity in such a position is likely debatable for most people.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#27 - 2013-07-18 14:46:40 UTC
Varg is only good as ov3rtank3d mission runner ir will never out dps out run or out perform machariel and it cant use 1400mm artys without making it a joke fit.

It is pretty fail as a t2 top of the line boat considering that rest of marauders are not plagued with joke of a powergrid, hopefully CCP will do something about marauders in this century.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#28 - 2013-07-19 10:01:50 UTC
I can complete level 4's easily with a DG large shield booster, AB, T2-rigged DPS Vargur fit. It does better than a Mach.

Falloff, bitches. Rat specific tank. Aggroing things properly. ABing away from your DPS. Drones to take out frigs.

You are all bitching because you overtank your Vargurs with Xl bosters because you are sissies.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Anfauglith
Retired Soldier Ltd.
#29 - 2013-07-19 16:52:57 UTC
This is my Vargur and yes, I like to be semi-afk or wander off to something else Lol
That is why it's capstable and you don't have to worry about aggroing this and that.
Oh, and with a set of Crystals you REALLY don't have to worry about being too drunk Bear

[Vargur, Missions]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Cap Recharger II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-07-19 17:08:29 UTC
pls tell me where you mission so i can gank you when you're afk

Art of Explosions
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-07-20 09:18:54 UTC
Thats what locator agents are for :)

CN invulns... who uses those nowadays? get a Pith C type...
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-07-20 22:50:30 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
Terrible Powergrid
Which Translates into terrible DPS and range
Which turns into terrible completion time
Which = terrible isk/hr

I'm pretty sure you can run a site faster with a machariel and coming back in a noctis; or just blitzing sites and skipping salvage.

Literally the only advantage the Vargur has is the tractor beam range and an unnecessary boost to tank. It can tank C4 sleeper sites but so can a machariel, and it can't even fit the 1400s needed to DPS them, or even a smartbomb.

Just... why CCP, why is the powergrid sooooooo terrible... It should be able to fit 1400s and a LARGE shield booster with at most 1 faction reactor control unit.


Well even if these guys don't agree with you, I do. I'd like to be able to fit 1400's to it.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Arec Bardwin
#33 - 2013-07-20 23:11:40 UTC
Anfauglith wrote:
This is my Vargur and yes, I like to be semi-afk or wander off to something else Lol
That is why it's capstable and you don't have to worry about aggroing this and that.
Oh, and with a set of Crystals you REALLY don't have to worry about being too drunk Bear

[Vargur, Missions]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Cap Recharger II

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
No faction gyros makes that a sad VargurSad
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#34 - 2013-07-20 23:20:20 UTC
Cause it looks awesome!

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-07-21 01:05:34 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
It is pretty fail as a t2 top of the line boat considering that rest of marauders are not plagued with joke of a powergrid, hopefully CCP will do something about marauders in this century.


The paladin's power grid actually is a bit of a "joke." Also the paladin is about the only marauder that I've seen have trouble being unequivocally superior to its respective race's black ops ship in PvE. The vargur and panther come close, but the panther has some fitting issues and a decidedly weaker tank letting the vargur pull ahead a bit despite the panther having more paper damage.

Trinkets friend wrote:

Falloff, bitches. Rat specific tank. Aggroing things properly. ABing away from your DPS. Drones to take out frigs.


Machariel can do all that with a falloff bonus while also fielding 4 sentry drones to help out with any initial long-range combat or for four heavy drones for taking out large structures.

Trinkets friend wrote:

You are all bitching because you overtank your Vargurs with Xl bosters because you are sissies.


Or it could just be because fitting an XL booster lets them free up another mid slot for something more useful than a tank mod.
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-07-21 07:52:13 UTC
Shereza wrote:


Trinkets friend wrote:

You are all bitching because you overtank your Vargurs with Xl bosters because you are sissies.


Or it could just be because fitting an XL booster lets them free up another mid slot for something more useful than a tank mod.


This, the big reason the machariel pulls so far ahead is because it has so many more slots, it can fit so much more damage.

XL shield booster, or Large shield booster with an amp. Doesn't really matter, you still can't get the range, or the webs, or the damage.

♞
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-07-21 07:52:55 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Varg is only good as ov3rtank3d mission runner ir will never out dps out run or out perform machariel and it cant use 1400mm artys without making it a joke fit.

It is pretty fail as a t2 top of the line boat considering that rest of marauders are not plagued with joke of a powergrid, hopefully CCP will do something about marauders in this century.


Your one to talk :P

♞
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#38 - 2013-07-21 09:32:27 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Varg is only good as ov3rtank3d mission runner ir will never out dps out run or out perform machariel and it cant use 1400mm artys without making it a joke fit.

It is pretty fail as a t2 top of the line boat considering that rest of marauders are not plagued with joke of a powergrid, hopefully CCP will do something about marauders in this century.

Well, pirate battleships are supposed to be top-DPS boats so your argument is invalid.

And in missions, 1400 mms are the joke to begin with. I did fly Machariel and don't remember a single mission when artillery performed better than autocannons. Ammo saving was obviously better, but ISK/hr - never.

In this regard the argument about fielding 4 sentries is also a moot, unless someone wants to say they use both AC-s and sentries...

And lastly, from completness point of view it's indeed strange that this ship can't use long range guns of its class. But if you think it hurts your mission performance then you're doing them wrong. Even if it was indeed a case, this crippled Vargur still performs better than fully pimped Vindicator. (OK, on most missions, because nothing beats blasters in Damsel in Distress)
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#39 - 2013-07-21 14:24:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
hmskrecik wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Varg is only good as ov3rtank3d mission runner ir will never out dps out run or out perform machariel and it cant use 1400mm artys without making it a joke fit.

It is pretty fail as a t2 top of the line boat considering that rest of marauders are not plagued with joke of a powergrid, hopefully CCP will do something about marauders in this century.

Well, pirate battleships are supposed to be top-DPS boats so your argument is invalid.

And in missions, 1400 mms are the joke to begin with. I did fly Machariel and don't remember a single mission when artillery performed better than autocannons. Ammo saving was obviously better, but ISK/hr - never.

In this regard the argument about fielding 4 sentries is also a moot, unless someone wants to say they use both AC-s and sentries...

And lastly, from completness point of view it's indeed strange that this ship can't use long range guns of its class. But if you think it hurts your mission performance then you're doing them wrong. Even if it was indeed a case, this crippled Vargur still performs better than fully pimped Vindicator. (OK, on most missions, because nothing beats blasters in Damsel in Distress)


Your answer would be perfectly valid if this game was named "l4 missions only using autocanons online" and not "eve online"

After all this changes there are army of ships that will out dps vargur in missions(one thing ship should excelling in) making all of those ships better bang for your buck.

Only thing that goes for varg is easy tank mode and that alone does nothing to make this ship perform good it just make it easy to tank.

This is what you should look at any ship before using one in precise order.

1 DPS potential
2 DPS potential
3 DPS projection
4 DPS projection
5 mobility
6 drone bay
7 is your hard drive fragmented or not
8 are your GPU drivers up to date
9 are you drunk or not
10 local tank.

So as i see it varg in nothing more than over tanked pigeon holed ship.because if you moved from basic decade old pve to new forms of it ship sucks... it pg is serious issue not having option to fit 1400mm is nothing more than pathetic.

and lets not forget that even with autocannons it isn't something to write home about.

@ Shereza

Paladin did have tight pg that is true but varg is in pathetic area with that,also lazors got buffed with lowering pg req for them that should make thing easier and Redeemer is rly good black-ops.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#40 - 2013-07-21 15:12:10 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
[....] there are army of ships that will out dps vargur in missions

Name them please. A single Machariel does not make an "army". For sure Vindicator, Kronos nor Dominix do not belong to this list.

Quote:
So as i see it varg in nothing more than over tanked pigeon holed ship

If you overtank your Varg then it is your problem and it is you doing it wrong.

Quote:
it pg is serious issue not having option to fit 1400mm is nothing more than pathetic.

I agreed: not being able to fit 1400mms is an issue with regard to being able to fit 1400mms. In respect to being able to competently finish the mission, the issue is non existent.