EVE New Citizens Q&A

Hehe, with your title, I thought you were talking about players who are a bit older IRL. ;)
Which, btw, is what my corp is about. Age 30 is the youngest we recruit.

You're asking really good questions, so you're a bit ahead of the curve for how little time you've played so far. One of the things that may take getting used to is the the sandbox nature of the game, which I'm sure you understand.... But it has implications. The game is never going to set out goals for you to achieve, not like the themeparks. Your SP is a sideshow, and your money is merely a facilitator. In reality, you can be involved in big stuff from day 1 if you put yourself in the right place, and hang around the right people.

Your comment regarding hi-sec being not where the real game is played is highly subjective, and arguable... But I agree. I'll give you some insight into some of what happens in null-sec, and what our play-habits can be.

I'm in an alliance that's part of a big, supposedly space-evil coalition called the CFC, and we're waging a war for resources at the moment. Just about all the Eve news sites and blogs' headlines right now are about this war. We organize large fleets daily, and lay siege to the infrastructure and assets of our opponents, we bait each other, we ambush each other, we spy on each other, and we sling propaganda at each other. Sometimes our fights happen 'organically,' or by accident - one group runs into another while patrolling the area, or doing some small strategic task. Other times the fights times are derived from the Sovereignty system, and it's timers, necessitating being in-place ready to guard or attack a structure. In either of these cases, they can escalate as the fights progress. When these fights escalate, the alliances use their out-of-game communication tools to call in members to log in quick, grab a ship that fits the current fleet doctrine, jump into voice comms, and organize to join the fight.

But in order to be ready to join these fights in time, your character's gotta be nearby at all times, sitting in the station of your planned deployment. You're in hostile, contested, or border space, where bad guys can come through at any time. There's no PVE happening here - that's just begging to get caught with your pants down, and blown up without being able to put up a fight.

So veterans who are involved in Nul-sec sovereignty wars like this log on and off depending on the alliance needs. We're very often playing some other game while we wait for a 'fleet ping' in Jabber, or some other 3rd party instant messenger. In fact, as I'm typing this a ping went out again - In this case, not something I need to concern myself with. But I'm hoping to see a ping for one of my favorite fleet doctrines. When one goes out - and surely the opportunity will come up a few times today - I'll log in, jump in a ship, and we'll have a big brawl, or uneventfully fulfill some strategic objective, all of which is player-made, not game-provided.

As this goes on day in and day out during this war, I'm skilling up for my next ship class, so I can join in on another fleet doctrine, who pursue different objectives, and fight differently. And if not a different doctrine, then fulfill a different role within the other fleets. Either way, I can join these fleets even if I'm flying a T1 frigate, but the SP gives flexibility, and a little bit more power. But the SP isn't a bar.

Prior to this war, and once the war is effectively concluded, I'll go back to raking in cash hand-over-fist through working my local markets. I'll try out some exploration, some ratting, some mining, but I doubt they'll keep my attention like the market does. I don't need the money at all, but it's sorta like a 'high-score' sort of thing, when it comes to hoarding ISK. And someday perhaps I'll be able to leverage it toward something big & cool.

For me, this game is all about the META. The player interactions, the player institutions, the player creations. People decide they want to make a new corporation, and grow the management network needed to thrive... they eventually take the next step in forming an alliance, with an even bigger network of people administrating the organization.... They join a coalition, to become part of an absolutely vast and impressive system of human infrastructure. They go to war with other human organizations, but why? For whatever reason they came up with. Animosity, ideology, money, identity, a statement, growth.
PvE has very little to do with any of these things.

You'll find, as you go on, that most in Nul-Sec do not care about people in High-Sec. Hi-seccers barely interface with them, at least not directly. Nul-sec play is a world unto itself, vibrant and dramatic, making the headlines consistently. High-sec, well, maybe it just doesn't get enough coverage, but not as many interesting things happen there, because most of the people there are mining and ratting and missioning. And that's not very interesting compared with human-interaction-centric play of Null- and Low-sec.

Don't get me wrong, high-sec has it's place, its unique interactions and interest... But I suspect I wouldn't be playing this game if it wasn't for Null-Sec gameplay.

I agree. You don't need hardwirings for a long time. Cybernetics 1 will get you +3 attribute implants.

I don't recommend training any skill to level 5, unless it is a skill you consider vital to your CURRENT play-style, or a perquisite to a skill you consider vital to your current play-style, i.e. something you want to specialize in, or something that effects every ship (or a lot of ships) you pilot.

Level 4 gives you 80% of the benefit of training to level 5, but only takes 17% of the time to train!

I typically train all skills to level 2 to start, and then train them further as necessary. I consider Level 3 a basic level of competency, and am quite happy with level 4 for most skills.

I originally titled this: Senior Citzens: What do you do in Eve? but I thought it would sound a little demeaning and I'm truly not trying to just reach people over 65! But sure, I am aiming at people who have been in game for over a year and I'm realizing that being in this game for just 1 year will barely scratch the surface right?

Perhaps I have been taking the easy road by doing the tutorials and now the Sisters of Eve Epic Arc missions. I sense while running these little mini missions that this is not what the game is about having heard so much about PVP. At the same time, I don't know how someone entering this game with few skills can survive below .5.

I did read something a couple of days ago. Someone suggested I go out and buy 50 frigates and just start flying. Is this the answer? Isk not withstanding, do you (I'm speaking to all senior players) advocate just getting in a ship and flying out? It could be my better judgement speaking or perhaps just my fear, but it seems to me that one would need some skills or experience before setting out on basically a suicide mission. Is that the best way to learn how to survive in low sec?

A few suggested I join a corporation and so I did do that a few days ago. I was asking a question in rookie chat and he started a conversation with me and asked if I wanted to join his corporation. I didn't know if there were any questions I was supposed to ask him but I took the advice of others and joined. Thing is, over the next several days I would post questions in the chat and either no one would answer or when they did they replied, "I'm new here also and have no idea." In fact, at most times of the day, there were only new people in this corp with the exception of the CEO who would be on a couple of hours each day. This was not my idea of what a corporation was supposed to be about.

So I'm back solo for the time being and just continuing the missions until something better comes along. I am encouraged from everything I am reading in this thread and confident that eventually I will find the right fit in a community that fill foster some survival skills for low sec!

There isn't a right answer to this question IMO. It depends on how comfortable you are with the idea of doing it and how self-reliant you are in the sense that there isn't much point in doing this if you don't learn anything from it. So apart from the isk cost it comes down to the questions of motivation and determination.

Personally I took a slower paced route into PvP by building up my core and ship skills and going on the Agony Unleashed classes to learn all the very basic stuff.

Partly this was attributable to the fact that I'm usually cautious about unknowns and partly because there is a little min-maxer in my that I try to ignore but usually make a compromise with - in this case learning from people that do pvp all the time and have a lot of experience in teaching it.

There are other people doing the same thing in different ways as well OUCH (Open University of Celestial Hardship), Eve University, Rifterlings (?) to name just a couple.

Tons of questions and points, you raise. In no particular order, but I'll do my best...

*As I think about it, you'll definitely want to put off training up cybernetics5. The gains from +3 implants vs +5 are very small. They add up for the long skill trains, but it translates to something between 1/6th to 1/10th shaved off the total time. You'll see a solid benefit when you're at the point of month-long trains... But when you're training stuff that takes 3 days, it's not really so worthwhile.

*Mining is something I regret investing in, but on the other hand, it's an option I'll always have. And that's valuable. And there are enough people who genuinely enjoy mining that you can't write it off just yet. Not until you've done a few group mining operations. Those are much more enjoyable, whether your a big mining fan or not.

*It's worth considering that most 'serious' players have multiple accounts. The common split is to have one combat-dedicated pilot, and an alt that's dedicated to mining, hauling, and/or industry. Since those realms are pretty mutually exclusive, it makes a lot of sense to have character's divided along those specialties. I, for example, am planning on buying a freighter/industry/trade/mining alt once I've saved up a few more billion ISK. That way I can stick with my combat skilling plan, and expand my pre-existing market schemes.

*ISK income does not come easy until you've done a bit of homework, or skilled up significantly, or gotten access to a good group with good lucrative space. From that standpoint, an industrial/mining/trade alt OR a mining fall-back for your main combat character become important factors. Early on, buying PLEX to sell on the market is a very good head-start, but later on may become less sustainable.

*The Buy 50 Frigates plan is pretty bold, and viable... But I think a middle road is better. Experiment a little, get blown up a couple times, but definitely find a crew to fly with. On the other hand, doing missions, or mining, or exploring or just yutzing around in High-Sec still yields knowledge and familiarity to use. Lots of corps have a minimum SP to join, particularly null- and low-sec corps, and time spent in game is one of the main reasons. After you've racked up, say, 3 million SP, you've got a solid foundation of experience to work from. So even if you opt out going kamikaze with a ton of frigates, you're still making progress. Use your judgement, and do what feels fun.

*You did the right thing in leaving that corp. My prior corp was just like what you described, and I almost quit the game with how poor the experience was. You want a group who's got a decent amount of people online at any time, veterans who will speak up, and people who's job it is to answer all your questions. Any corp that wants to thrive has to nurture their new guys. The ones who don't do this generally do not succeed. For those reasons and more, you'll want to scout out a corp that's not new, or at least is highly organized and populous. They have a better chance of providing you with what you need, and will get more out of you as an active and competent member as a result.

*You'll get into the swing of things within three to five months. At least, in the context of what sorts of activities you engage in. For example, having spent my time in Null-, I don't know or understand the nuances of Low-Sec, and know *nothing* about wormhole life. But like with the real world, you learn faster by taking on more challenging situations and defying the comfort zone. So it's not a bad idea to jump into somewhat deep water, just don't go too far. One step at a time, but big steps. ;)

*The tutorials and epic arcs and missions other common, 'easy roads,' as you put it are always a good idea; you done the right thing there. Even though it's possible to be involved in big stuff from day 1, that pre-supposes a lot of requirements... Primarily that you're immediately joining a group who will aggressively include you, direct you toward their various plans and programs, give you ideas for tasks to do, throw free ships at you, guide you even when the group is busy doing big things. There are only a few groups in Eve that currently are robust and organized enough to pull that off, and the ones who are best at it are frequently demonized as space evil. ;) So Big Stuff Right Now is possible, but identifying and getting into one of those groups is the big challenge. Most don't get access to this luxury, but anything is *possible*.

*If you're interested in Null-Sec, or Low-Sec, or just have more questions, feel free to send me an Eve mail, or convo me in game. You can use your Contacts window, search out my exact name, and check the little box to notify you when I'm online, if you wanted to. My corp's a possible option, and I've also got some buddies in other corps who also have similar minimum age req's, if you're into that. Else, I can help you get an idea of what groups are out there.

*Lots of people have good ideas and good organizations. Talk to a bunch of people.

Okay that's enough text for one post, heh.

Forums as a whole? Then you are in for disappointment.

1. I am a busy man but I tend to squeeze in 3 or 4 hours a week. Sometimes less.

2. Because of my limited time I don't like to waste it on pve. The closest I get to pve is snatching up clone rats when I see them or scanning down sigs so I can surprise the people in them.

3. I shoot people. I fly cheap so I find that between loot and clone rat tags I always have enough isk to buy a new cruiser. Sometimes if I'm feeling good about my bank acount I will flip a PLEX but then I usually spend it on battlecruiser that get blown up way too fast cause I don't fly them enough to be good at it.

I've been playing for over 3 years. I'd hardly call that senior, but my .02

My main is in a sov null alliance and this alt is only used to mess around in FW a little. I keep the two separate within Eve.
I log in to PvP, and only do a bare minimum of PvE to support that. Both a sov null alliance with an SRP, and FW offer ways to PvP as a primary occupation.

I alternate between playing constantly to going weeks only logging in to update my training or run some PI. I have that flexibility because I joined an alliance with my main that doesn't treat Eve like a job- but since I only want to PvP, flying in fleets is what I do anyway, and I've 'put my time in' in that regard.

The only PvE I do is a poorly run PI set up in null with my main, and rarely ratting a bit. Having an SRP in the alliance means I am largely reimbursed for losses, so I don't need much money to be honest.
This toon isn't seeing much use, but FW offers rewards for PvP that offset the cost somewhat. But I use my main as a 'sugar daddy' to provide for this toon. I spend 95% of my time on my main and 5% on this toon.

I like doing anything in a fleet as a group, including PvE. It's an MMO and it rewards teaming up. I personally prefer PvP and more- having a 'reason' to fight, like sov or factional warfare. But I just enjoy how Eve scales with more players. This is a huge problem in Eve tho, most PvE is really solo based, especially the stuff newbs do. So teaming is almost discouraged early on, and players learn to play solo instead of teaming up.

It's always my biggest piece of advice to new players.....play with other people. It transforms Eve entirely.

Don't get bogged down with trying to 'power game' Eve. Expensive implants will just make you hesitate to even undock or do anything remotely risky (ie, fun). The goal really should be the ability to fly stripped clones....because then who cares if you get podded? Same with ships, shiny ones are nice but if you're afraid of losing it, then it's pointless. A cheap Rifter you have half a dozen more of...will allow you to enjoy a loss almost as much as a win.

While I'm biased to PvP, what makes Eve fun is the depth of any given occupation. Dabbling is rewarded enough to encourage giving several things a try without having to burn too much training time, so by all means shop around a bit and don't consider the minimum training time for each as a waste.
Once you find something you really like, then there is lots of more specific advice available. Eve will reward really dedicating your skills to something specific.

For some background, I've been playing since 2005, and have been doing combat for over 8 years. The vast majority of that has focused around small-gang warfare with Stimulus and Rote Kapelle, as well as participating in Alliance Tournaments 3-5 with Star Fraction and 8-11 with Rote Kapelle. As for your questions:

1) I play regularly, right now I'm doing probably about 30 hours a week due to Alliance Tournament preparations. Rest of the year, it's probably about 15 hours a week. Usually, it's just fleets and time needed to prepare for fleets.

2) When I have money to fund what improvements I need to my fleet, it's 100% PVP. When I find I'm short, I'll spend some time on an alt, and try to increase my wealth. Total, I'd argue probably about 80% PVP and 20% PVE.

3) Small-gang warfare, incidental piracy, Alliance Tournaments.

4) Some highlights for each:

* Small-gang warfare allows for people's skills to be seen better in fights. If someone makes a mistake or does something excellent, it's more likely to sway how a fight develops. As the number of combatants rises, to the level of fights you see elsewhere in nullsec, Time Dialation kicks in (which is annoying), and often it's more about how many people and capital ships you can muster, rather than the quality of their pilots.

* Piracy is interesting, in that you can get some visceral reactions from people when you ransom them or toy with them in a helpless position. It's an interesting study on how people behave in stressful situations, and can be profitable too.

* The AT is like the Olympics of EVE. The teams that train the hardest, have the best funding and intelligence on their opponents usually win. It's always an interesting contest, and actually starts in less than a week (go watch it!). Some teams, like mine, have been practicing since early June, some extremely hardcore teams practice, theorycraft, and generate funds year-round in preparation for this.