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L4 Worlds Collide (Serpentis & Guristas)
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LordNykkon
My BLT Drive Just Went AWOL
#1 - 2013-07-12 21:35:23 UTC  |  Edited by: LordNykkon
I was running this mission last night and had a corp mate with me that was in an Omen (yeah I know, but I was just hoping that he would be able to pull range out to like 150k and I could keep aggro in my Maelstrom at 20K that way he could still get the bounty payouts). Things didn't go as planned. in Pocket 1 on the Guristas side I warped in and immediately got aggro. I had him warp in and start burning up to pull range. Upon him landing on grid ALL hostiles immediately switched aggro to him. His armor tank held out long enough to get out of range of the rails, but the BS cruise missiles were still hitting him (although not for much damage).

There are a few things that I am confused on:

1.) I was the bigger threat so why did they switch aggro to him?

2.) I had him keep burning away from the BS to see if they would switch aggro to me seeing as I was only 15K from them and hitting for full damage. He was still holding aggro all the way out to 450K (yes 450K) and, ready for this, he was still getting hit by the cruise missiles for minimal damage up to 320K away!!! How was this possible? I think that my max flight time on my Cruise Launcher !!'s is like 158k. Is there a bug in this mission that allows enemy missiles to travel 2x as far as normal missiles?

I am really confused on this. Any help would be appreciated.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2013-07-12 22:39:49 UTC
Well, on NPC missile range -- yeah, they cheat. Big time. They always have. Their torps go further than our torps, their cruise go further than our cruise, their EWAR, etc.

As for why he drew full agro: I have no idea. Agro has always been weird in WC, but I can't come up with any particular logic to what you describe.
Thaman Arnuad
The Caldarian Templars
#3 - 2013-07-12 22:47:45 UTC
I think the current mission mechanic is that the easiest target is primaried, there may be something about agro potentially changing whenever grid pilot count changes.

You could test this in lower level missions with a group.
Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
#4 - 2013-07-12 23:39:42 UTC
I concur that rats will aggro on any easy kills first.

When I am in a rat-heavy mission and a ninja looter warps in with his throwaway frigate to try to loot my stuff, the rats pop him.

When I forget about a trigger and warp my Noctis in too soon, all rats focus on my Noctis.

So yeah, don't take ships into a mission unless you are expecting them to take fire.
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-07-13 01:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Donbe Scurred
Try TP or two on Maelstrom to pull back aggro? Drop Heavy Attack drones as chaff?
DSpite Culhach
#6 - 2013-07-13 15:37:01 UTC
One of the reasons I'm poor is because I have more fun in missions when I screw around watching the "AI" scripted decisions.

One mate wanted to test a MJD Rokh in WC, and I took in a 650dps omni tanked sentry Rattler. Pocket 3, he landed, jumped and started railing from 100k. I landed in the middle of all the red, and tried to sneak off slowly. Half the pocket was already 10-20km plus away going towards him, and they had a "wait a minute!" moment. Suddenly, without me firing a shot, and already 20km+ away from the gate, EVERYTHING re-targeted me.

The only thing that re targeted him later was 3 frigs, even though I did not fire until after he'd had long range shots on the smaller stuff to make sure he could track them.

Seriously, I personally think there's just a lot of dice rolling involved.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Ginger Barbarella
#7 - 2013-07-13 16:50:06 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Well, on NPC missile range -- yeah, they cheat. Big time. They always have. Their torps go further than our torps, their cruise go further than our cruise, their EWAR, etc.

As for why he drew full agro: I have no idea. Agro has always been weird in WC, but I can't come up with any particular logic to what you describe.


Drop a Noctis into a room with ANY other ship, and watch your Noctis draw aggro away from it. This happens to me EVERY time I drop a Noctis into a room to start clean-up before the shooting is over: Tengu, Loki, SNI, Navy Domi, Vigi... you name it, the Noctis draw aggro. That's why I tank all of my Noctii... Smile

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Kyoka Nanbu
63rd Forward Recon Division
#8 - 2013-07-14 14:42:17 UTC
Sounds like, despite the ai update, wc still kept it's goofy aggro mechanics.

The second pocket (either faction) will aggro only the spies and a few ships/turrets. Grid aggro will only happen if you use drones on the spies, or if you bump on warp-in and blunder into the other groups.

If another ship enters, EVERYTHING aggros, usually on the second ship, and stays unless they warp off.

Only way to avoid it is to grab complete aggro. And even then, it might still switch around. That second pocket REALLY hates fleet members.

Other missions don't usually do this, but they will usually switch to the new ship for a few seconds, then prioritize by threat.

ECM...TD...SD...TP...Pick an acronym, I'm an equal opportunity annoyance ^_^
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-07-14 18:02:03 UTC
LordNykkon wrote:
I was running this mission last night and had a corp mate with me that was in an Omen (yeah I know, but I was just hoping that he would be able to pull range out to like 150k and I could keep aggro in my Maelstrom at 20K that way he could still get the bounty payouts). Things didn't go as planned. in Pocket 1 on the Guristas side I warped in and immediately got aggro. I had him warp in and start burning up to pull range. Upon him landing on grid ALL hostiles immediately switched aggro to him. His armor tank held out long enough to get out of range of the rails, but the BS cruise missiles were still hitting him (although not for much damage).

There are a few things that I am confused on:

1.) I was the bigger threat so why did they switch aggro to him?

2.) I had him keep burning away from the BS to see if they would switch aggro to me seeing as I was only 15K from them and hitting for full damage. He was still holding aggro all the way out to 450K (yes 450K) and, ready for this, he was still getting hit by the cruise missiles for minimal damage up to 320K away!!! How was this possible? I think that my max flight time on my Cruise Launcher !!'s is like 158k. Is there a bug in this mission that allows enemy missiles to travel 2x as far as normal missiles?

I am really confused on this. Any help would be appreciated.


It does make sense even as annoying as the new AI drone agrro is. Kill the weaker targets first to get them out of the way. I normally do the same with PVP and missions. Bringing in a T1 cruiser to a L4 mission can be a bad idea unless it can speed tank.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#10 - 2013-07-14 18:25:57 UTC
The AI works a lot like a real player.

It will ignore light drones for the most part with big ships.
No reason to shoot large guns at light drones.

As drones increase in size they are more aggressive at going after them.
This is due to the rule of take out the easy target.

These same rules apply to bringing along smaller ships.

To counter this you need EW!
Just like a real player you see that ship jamming, target painting, messing with your cap.
The AI is going to want it dead. Most likely it will target the ew ship over the easy target.

DPS still helps hold aggro but that is the smallest of the factors.
Biggest threat is still biggest threat.

You can see this in a very stunning way in the 40 man incursions.
Rattlesnakes and Navy Scorps run ECM and NOS for these very reason.

So if you want to bring buddies in missions with you NOS, ECM, TP, DPS!
Drop your sentries right before buddy jumps in.

Yes ECM in a mission is junk and should never be done when solo.
But it is the taunt button of Eve with it's current AI.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#11 - 2013-07-14 18:27:19 UTC
Donbe Scurred wrote:
Try TP or two on Maelstrom to pull back aggro? Drop Heavy Attack drones as chaff?


This. If you want to keep aggro on a specific target, have that target use an Electronic Warfare module. EW is like an aggro magnet.