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Requesting EvE Prisons for Scammer and Traitors!

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Author
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#61 - 2013-07-12 12:39:59 UTC
My favorite part is the "voting" possibility.

Like that will work any better than, you know, voting for CSM. I can just imagine how much fun that would be. Wouldn't even have to DDoS people anymore, the "prison" system will do it for us!

EVE Offline, pay not to play!

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

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Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#62 - 2013-07-12 12:41:07 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
but tbh you may as well be King Canute trying to stop the tide, he suffered from hubris as well.


Actually quite the reverse. You should read up on it - if the incident with the tide actually happened it was a clever bit of politics.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Maximillian German
Task Force Coalition
#63 - 2013-07-12 12:42:34 UTC
Posting in stupid Harry idea thread #213. Seriously man, take the hint. People try to tell you nicely(by eve standards) but you won't consider what anyone else has to say.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#64 - 2013-07-12 12:43:37 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
but tbh you may as well be King Canute trying to stop the tide, he suffered from hubris as well.


Actually quite the reverse. You should read up on it - if the incident with the tide actually happened it was a clever bit of politics.

I may well be wrong about King Canute suffering from hubris, my history classes are 30 years in the past. It still doesn't mean that Harry's idea is good though.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#65 - 2013-07-12 12:44:06 UTC
darmwand wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
again, you also prevent me from playing when i get shot down and sit in a capsule


Not really. You just go back to your station, grab another ship and keep playing. Locking somebody out of the game for several days is something else entirely. Plus, while I'd love to imprison each and every last stabbed FW plex farmer, this mechanic would simply be abused to imprison anyone you don't like - the AI can't tell whether you just got scammed or not.


I think about it for obious scam mechanics nown in the game, if somebody uses those then the opposite party gets a voting right against that player like a killright you receive when shotdown in nullsec

at some point those voting rights (maybe more than one needs to be used) could be used to send a scammer to prison, maybe a week is much however it should be depending how much votes that player gets

if a player scammes billions after billions, I'm fine with one week prison and just beeing able to mine there and do some basic stuff, its consequences all are waiting for... he can play but in boundaries, it gives more to scamming as well, at the moment they do not have to fear anything, scamming would be much more implemented and exciting

at the moment there are zero consequences for scamming, thats just boring
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2013-07-12 12:46:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Maximillian German wrote:
Posting in stupid Harry idea thread #213. Seriously man, take the hint. People try to tell you nicely(by eve standards) but you won't consider what anyone else has to say.


wow, great feedback thanks, you and your friends sure know how its done, seriously
Hevymetal
POT Corp
#67 - 2013-07-12 12:47:57 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
I want a new game mechanic implemented however this may need to be discussed with a broader audience in GD first.
Its pretty simple, there should be a possibility to catch pods and bring them to an ingame Prison. Those Prisons should be Time Capsules where the catched player has to stay for some time. I would say 1 day up to 1 week

various features could be implemented that catching other players do not get too easy. Maybe need of special modules, having at least 5-10 people involved in the capturing process, and a special prison fee

please add your ideas, this should bring consequences to the game for liars, traitors and scammers. I feel those are needed because they are missing at the moment!

Edit: maybe they should still be able to do basic stuff like mining, lets say if they mine a certain amount for the guy who took them to prison, then they are free upfront

Edit: the prison mechanic could also be implemented by a special voting system, maybe scammed people can go together and vote, however there would need to be a mechanic to identify scammed people, so you get a voting right comparable to killrights


Nice, I forsee yet another mechanic ripe with corruption, scams and exploitation.

Welcome to Eve, off to the gulag's of Rura Penthe for you.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#68 - 2013-07-12 12:48:24 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:


at the moment there are zero consequences for scamming, thats just boring

There are consequences for scamming, however the consequences are down to you to enforce and devise. Your jail mechanic is just plain bad, and would be abused by all and sundry if it ever came to be.

Malcanis's law would be a relevant quote right about now.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#69 - 2013-07-12 12:48:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
My favorite part is the "voting" possibility.


Mine too.
Has infinite exploit opportunities.
Figure, you may arrange with friends and send innocents in some mining detention camp :)
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#70 - 2013-07-12 12:50:44 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
My favorite part is the "voting" possibility.

Like that will work any better than, you know, voting for CSM. I can just imagine how much fun that would be. Wouldn't even have to DDoS people anymore, the "prison" system will do it for us!

EVE Offline, pay not to play!


votingrights should only be possible conected with game mechanics, like mentioned simular to the killrights

you get scammed you get a voting right, mechanics could be implemented for basic and obvious scams
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2013-07-12 12:51:56 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
I want a new game mechanic implemented however this may need to be discussed with a broader audience in GD first.
Its pretty simple, there should be a possibility to catch pods and bring them to an ingame Prison. Those Prisons should be Time Capsules where the catched player has to stay for some time. I would say 1 day up to 1 week


The fun thing about that other PvP game I played was that players could assemble a posse as a police force to not only protect themselves, their cities. Since the game allowed people stealing, and if you didn't travel with friends to collect what you dropped when you die, you lose...everything...including all the gold you carry...that isn't bound (and only a few things could be bound, and they're not permanent. There's wear timers too, you will not even own the item forever). No nonsense, free loot to any passerby if you die (real meaning of only going out in a group!).

Unlike mercs you hire, it's volunteers with a specific mission -- having fun at thieves expense. Pick up the bounty and go hunting. There wasn't any prison, because the "law" was harsh, the criminal is to be executed and his head mounted on a pike before a city gate (with a vivid description of the dude's name, crime and note on his fate). Players could do what they pleased to that head, and sometimes were explicit.

But they were big boys and it was part of the fun in the game. Because it was so difficult to be a thief (with the high consequences) the thieves in that game were RP pros. Remember one that paraded outside a city with a big show insulting the powers inside, taunting them to fight him (maxed out toon with RL value $5,000 weapons, actual cost of them. He was like a raid boss). It took three days to finally get his head on a pike.

This is why I consider the epeening in games to be very flat. There's little consequences (look at all the ways criminals in EvE can get away with crimes, even before CONCORD). If players really want to step up with the big boys, there's no hand holding. You can lose everything in game. Even your Jita 4-4 shop in the station can be robbed wholesale.

A posse system would be a good addition to EvE, which isn't a merc corp. It's designed like a raid but on the criminals ingame. Might as well have a bounty system that actually means something. Not criminals who mock their 200,000,000 ISK prices on their heads.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#72 - 2013-07-12 12:52:13 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
My favorite part is the "voting" possibility.

Like that will work any better than, you know, voting for CSM. I can just imagine how much fun that would be. Wouldn't even have to DDoS people anymore, the "prison" system will do it for us!

EVE Offline, pay not to play!


votingrights should only be possible conected with game mechanics, like mentioned simular to the killrights

you get scammed you get a voting right, mechanics could be implemented for basic and obvious scams

So I can lie about being scammed to get a vote?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#73 - 2013-07-12 12:52:27 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
but tbh you may as well be King Canute trying to stop the tide, he suffered from hubris as well.


Actually quite the reverse. You should read up on it - if the incident with the tide actually happened it was a clever bit of politics.

I may well be wrong about King Canute suffering from hubris, my history classes are 30 years in the past. It still doesn't mean that Harry's idea is good though.


Yeah, no argument about that... The analogy was certainly valid.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Six Six Six
Doomheim
#74 - 2013-07-12 12:53:22 UTC
Of course the longer they're in prison the more skills they lose (sounds familiar).

Then you could have prison break-outs but then CONCORD would have to be de-scaled in power so that they could be destroyed in such break-outs.

Or we could just forget about prisons.
Lysanne Reqetta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-07-12 12:55:26 UTC
*new player logs in*
Newbro > hi guys whats up
Newbro > just joined and likin the game
Notification: you have been convicted by capsuleer vote of crimes including scamming and egregrious bumping. You are restricted to mining or remaining docked for the next seven days (06:23:59:59 remaining). A fine of 1,500,000.00 ISK has been levied automatically.
Newbro > f u guys im out
*New player logs out and goes to play something more fun*

Blatant alt posting? In my EVE? It's more likely than you think.

NEVER FORGET - NOVEMBER 2013 - THE GREAT SIGNATURE MASSACRE

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#76 - 2013-07-12 12:56:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Zappity wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
but tbh you may as well be King Canute trying to stop the tide, he suffered from hubris as well.


Actually quite the reverse. You should read up on it - if the incident with the tide actually happened it was a clever bit of politics.

I may well be wrong about King Canute suffering from hubris, my history classes are 30 years in the past. It still doesn't mean that Harry's idea is good though.


Yeah, no argument about that... The analogy was certainly valid.

The alternative (and anagrammatic) spelling of Canute would actually be more valid for the purposes of this thread though.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2013-07-12 12:58:20 UTC
In game prison mechanics must be balanced with in game prison break mechanics.

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.

darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-07-12 13:00:13 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:

I think about it for obious scam mechanics nown in the game, if somebody uses those then the opposite party gets a voting right against that player like a killright you receive when shotdown in nullsec


But that's the problem - even the obvious scam mechanics aren't necessarily obvious to the computer. Maybe somebody just doesn't have the ISK to cover the buy order (margin trading scam), was aware that he was paying too much for a ship in a trade window or was rejected from a corp after paying a recruitment fee for a good reason. Otherwise I could just send you a few million ISK, claim you scammed me by not doubling it and get an angry mob to imprison you.

I agree that there should be an option to take revenge whenever you feel "wronged", but I assume you also agree that one man's need for revenge shouldn't enable the whole world to harass innocent bystanders.

Probably the best way to fight scammers is to teach new players about the scams. When I joined my first player corp they frequently told all new arrivals about different types of scams and how to avoid them. Maybe you could spend your time & energy on something like that instead? Once people stop falling for scams the scammers will disappear.

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."

Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#79 - 2013-07-12 13:01:24 UTC
Lysanne Reqetta wrote:
*new player logs in*
Newbro > hi guys whats up
Newbro > just joined and likin the game
Notification: you have been convicted by capsuleer vote of crimes including scamming and egregrious bumping. You are restricted to mining or remaining docked for the next seven days (06:23:59:59 remaining). A fine of 1,500,000.00 ISK has been levied automatically.
Newbro > f u guys im out
*New player logs out and goes to play something more fun*


again the voting right mechanic should be like killright mechanic, linked to an ingame scam, linked to a game mechanic, please read through my suggestions in detail before you start posting something silly
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#80 - 2013-07-12 13:02:29 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
before you start posting something silly

Pot meet kettle.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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