These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

0.0 stalemate: how to make 0.0 dynamic

First post
Author
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2011-11-08 20:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong (as I am not in an alliance), but I think that everyone has enough pocket money that no matter if you make the Tech moons or whatever other economic incentive teleport around every three weeks, the big powerblocs won't fight unless they WANT to.

For that, you have to make war FUN, not just profitable.

This is absolutely correct and why supercaps need to be nerfed. As soon as they are involved they take the fun out of any engagement.


Flying capships single handedly is ridiculous; 1 player in a supercap SOLOPWNS 10 players, so given enough time and money, there's no reason not to outfit your entire alliance with caps.

They should have made supercaps a teamwork effort instead of a solo deathmobile.

One pilot drives, 8 others target and fire one high slot module each, x others remote control 5 drones each.

It would have made more sense, as supercap blobbing would require almost as much players as subcap blobbing.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us

Sebero Sinak
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-11-08 20:45:13 UTC
lets say someone had a grudge against one of the OP's "Powerblocks" or didn't care much for the business model being used by one or more of them.....now that we have a motive to attack - what can be done ?

SBU's are reasonably priced 130 - 140 mil and very easy to place ...anyone with a Bestower, a Prototype Cloak and starbase configuration role can place an SBU anywhere they choose. (Provided you are in an alliance )

Thats not hype i travel thru hostile 0.0 in my "Deep Space" Bestower, cloak, inertia stabs, and probe launcher.

The problem comes in the response time allowed the sovernity holders. ...If you have a handful of Caps pilots watching their vast holdings of almost deserted space they have plenty of time to email, phone, schedule pizza in and generally graze contentedly in the direction of the problem.
At such time as they do show up it's the status quo and not inviting for the smaller alliances to try.

BTW..i haven't positioned my little corp with access to dropping SBU's in systems of the OP's Powerblocks at any time a war breaks out and the "good guys" contact me about doing it. I wouldn't dream of something like that.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2011-11-08 20:54:25 UTC
Sebero Sinak wrote:
lets say someone had a grudge against one of the OP's "Powerblocks" or didn't care much for the business model being used by one or more of them.....now that we have a motive to attack - what can be done ?

SBU's are reasonably priced 130 - 140 mil and very easy to place ...anyone with a Bestower, a Prototype Cloak and starbase configuration role can place an SBU anywhere they choose. (Provided you are in an alliance )

Thats not hype i travel thru hostile 0.0 in my "Deep Space" Bestower, cloak, inertia stabs, and probe launcher.

The problem comes in the response time allowed the sovernity holders. ...If you have a handful of Caps pilots watching their vast holdings of almost deserted space they have plenty of time to email, phone, schedule pizza in and generally graze contentedly in the direction of the problem.
At such time as they do show up it's the status quo and not inviting for the smaller alliances to try.

BTW..i haven't positioned my little corp with access to dropping SBU's in systems of the OP's Powerblocks at any time a war breaks out and the "good guys" contact me about doing it. I wouldn't dream of something like that.

You make it sound like it's impossible for sov to change hands. Go find a sov map from a year ago and one from today. Two entities who were supposed to be invulnerable, IT Alliance and the Northern Coalition, are gone. Once supercaps are finally nerfed those alliances who poured all of their resources into nothing but I-Win buttons are going to have a very hard time keeping their space and hopefully the necessity of having a huge supercap fleet before even attempting to make a place in nullsec will be greatly reduced.

For now I would suggest taking your corp and finding a nullsec alliance that shares your ideals and goals and hooking up with them. There are plenty of options that don't include mandatory CTAs, alarm clock ops, paying isk for "rent", or becoming a slave.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

mkint
#24 - 2011-11-08 21:00:48 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Sebero Sinak wrote:
lets say someone had a grudge against one of the OP's "Powerblocks" or didn't care much for the business model being used by one or more of them.....now that we have a motive to attack - what can be done ?

SBU's are reasonably priced 130 - 140 mil and very easy to place ...anyone with a Bestower, a Prototype Cloak and starbase configuration role can place an SBU anywhere they choose. (Provided you are in an alliance )

Thats not hype i travel thru hostile 0.0 in my "Deep Space" Bestower, cloak, inertia stabs, and probe launcher.

The problem comes in the response time allowed the sovernity holders. ...If you have a handful of Caps pilots watching their vast holdings of almost deserted space they have plenty of time to email, phone, schedule pizza in and generally graze contentedly in the direction of the problem.
At such time as they do show up it's the status quo and not inviting for the smaller alliances to try.

BTW..i haven't positioned my little corp with access to dropping SBU's in systems of the OP's Powerblocks at any time a war breaks out and the "good guys" contact me about doing it. I wouldn't dream of something like that.

You make it sound like it's impossible for sov to change hands. Go find a sov map from a year ago and one from today. Two entities who were supposed to be invulnerable, IT Alliance and the Northern Coalition, are gone. Once supercaps are finally nerfed those alliances who poured all of their resources into nothing but I-Win buttons are going to have a very hard time keeping their space and hopefully the necessity of having a huge supercap fleet before even attempting to make a place in nullsec will be greatly reduced.

For now I would suggest taking your corp and finding a nullsec alliance that shares your ideals and goals and hooking up with them. There are plenty of options that don't include mandatory CTAs, alarm clock ops, paying isk for "rent", or becoming a slave.

Well, here's a question... what was the latest NEW alliance to start from scratch to make a splash on the map? The fact that alliances are falling off the map is not encouraging, it just means that devs are more and more making nullsec to favor special interest groups rather than more and more players.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#25 - 2011-11-09 03:36:21 UTC
mkint wrote:

Well, here's a question... what was the latest NEW alliance to start from scratch to make a splash on the map? The fact that alliances are falling off the map is not encouraging, it just means that devs are more and more making nullsec to favor special interest groups rather than more and more players.
BRUCE ?
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#26 - 2011-11-09 05:06:19 UTC
x-number of players can effectively control only so many systems. The problem comes when those players suddenly get a crap-ton of free isk. (moongoo). Then they can simply drop sov structures, claim all that space, and then drop supers to defend it.

While I can see CCP's position on isk-related inflation screwing with the market, the resultant anom nerf made it all but impossible for smaller groups to live in nul. Now the only way to make money consistantly as an alliance so that the group can expand and grow is moons.

Since increasing the expense of holding sov or making supers/titans will only make it harder for new organizations to break into nul sov, I hope to see a nerf to moon income.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#27 - 2011-11-09 06:39:43 UTC
Allow Titan's DD player owned stations and blow them up.

How would you defend this and is it too easy to do? Just asking.

Anyway it could put things in null on a hair trigger. Blink

Empire, the next new world order.

CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#28 - 2011-11-09 09:39:54 UTC
Off topic posts removed.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#29 - 2011-11-09 09:52:39 UTC
- Crippling costs associated with multi-region holdings.
- Penalties for operating outside own sov. (US managed to bankrupt itself fighting abroad but ISK is crappy balancing tool so mechanic penalties are better).
- Do away with EHP grinds for system control (leave it for station control).
- Give small fleets/roams ability to do hurt enemy more than making them dock up does.
- Harsh, consistent and constant pressure on botters and other EULA violators.

There is your foundation for a dynamic null. Once you put more ego's in charge things go downhill at a brisk pace (problem with the bloc system we have now is that all the space is "controlled" by a handful of people).

Trust in the human animals overwhelming desire to blow its own hand off!
Donna Divine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
#30 - 2011-11-09 10:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Donna Divine
Large scale wars happen because of combination of two reasons:
-religion/social drama
-economics

Drama in a game leads to alot of talking and forum posting. It used to lead to war also (remeber CA-SA anyone?), but nowadays it won't easily lead to prolonged sovereignty warfare, especially if there's little to be gained by that. So, you need economic reasons to go to war.

To adress that you need to introduce a factor of change into the economic value of sovereign space.

Essentially a two-step thing:
1. truesec needs to represen the percentage chance of a valuable resources occurring in any given system. 1.0: minimum chance, -1.0: maximum chance. Players can influence this with upgrades: good!

2. this distribution needs to be subject to change over time, by regularly regularly redistributing the (negative) true sov values across the galaxy and introducing a lifespan factor into all harvestable resources in space (ores already deplete, anoms already despawn, rats already die, moons and planets.....need to run out after a given amount of production?

this way, the value of space changes with time, and if the differences are large enough war will ensue. And other then in a static ditribution situation, you foster war between established powerblocks rather then between have's and have-nots.

please CCP, if this is for some (technical) reason not feasible, tell us. But otherwise how can we not conclude that you're just not interested in a more dynamic emergent gameplay experience.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-11-09 10:13:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
For the umpteenth time:

Mr LaboratoryRat wrote:

-Nerf tech moons so the alliances ruling them dont have free sov across 2/4th of eve & free titans & risk free super production

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

seany1212
M Y S T
#32 - 2011-11-09 10:39:33 UTC
Nyla Skin wrote:
For the umpteenth time:

Mr LaboratoryRat wrote:

-Nerf tech moons so the alliances ruling them dont have free sov across 2/4th of eve & free titans & risk free super production


Nerfing tech is pointless, you just end up with the same results from the previous 2 or 3 moon Goo nerfs before it with a more valuable moon goo. CCP need to adjust it so that a small tactical group can come in and disrupt production, however that maybe, for example out of shield silos or harvesters.
Donna Divine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
#33 - 2011-11-09 11:02:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Donna Divine
Remeber that powerblocks aren't as solid as they sometimes seem.

I serieously wonder what'd happen if you'd end up with half of DRF's space being utter crap for a three month period due to the vagaries of the RNG, and the rest staying very good. Ima stand back an watch with interest then.

edit; however, more influence on economies in 0.0 from roaming gangs does seem a good thing. As long as it's a papercut system, where lots of small easy disruptions end up causing big grief if not countered well. things like temporary disabling of moon miners, outposts, gates etc.
Donna Divine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
#34 - 2011-11-09 11:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Donna Divine
Oh, and lose jump bridges, increase random wormhole connections between high, low and null with decent mass limits and lifespans.
Sicex
#35 - 2011-11-09 11:43:05 UTC
Was rolling with an another idea mentioned earlier...

It seems if you could explain some sort of a regional (or more likely multi-regional) natural space phenomenon that would disrupt resource income at some level you could encourage power-bloc and 0.0 sov shifts.

Examples of this would be massive asteroid showers crashing through regions at high speed resulting directly in a constant, small amount of dps applied to ships-in-space for weeks; Maybe electromagnetic radioactive nebulae clouds are drifting through these large regions of space affecting the reliance of the local chat channel or scanning functions...

... Or suppose regions of space become infested with asteroid crabs that diminish the size of all asteroids for several months.

By adding a rotating random (but temporary) negative factor applied to regions of nullsec you could encourage more shifts within the power blocs and more 0.0 wars in general. Wars, need I remind you, are what fuel the economies of EVE so this would be to the benefit of everyone! By putting some random regional Power at a disadvantage, other alliances could use this sudden weakness to their obvious advantage. If the Power has sufficient defense, however, that weakness may shift back upon an oppressor.

These shifts would be shifts in the ability to harvest resources, whether that is belts, moons, or both, it would somehow ultimately hamper production and it would have to cover a large area of nullsec (maybe even a quarter of the total space at a time) and it would have to be for an extended amount of time, on the scale of several months.

Obviously the idea has room to grow but I think it's sound, eh?
Sicex
#36 - 2011-11-09 11:50:51 UTC
Was also going to add that my idea could also simply be instituted on top of what already exists without the need of tricky manipulations or unpopular resets.
Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
#37 - 2011-11-09 12:48:08 UTC
Wars are almost always fought over access to resources - food, valuable minerals and the like.

In our own history,as technological advances have been made certain resources have become more or less valuable over time and depletion and discovery of them has made them more, or less prevalent over time.

It is the need to acquire these resources that generates migrationary pressures which in turn has led to more conflict.

Unless the current model of static resources shifts a status-quo will be the inevitable result as current occupiers become so well established and so wealthy as a result that nothing can challenge them.

C.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2011-11-10 08:46:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
seany1212 wrote:


Nerfing tech is pointless, you just end up with the same results from the previous 2 or 3 moon Goo nerfs before it with a more valuable moon goo. CCP need to adjust it so that a small tactical group can come in and disrupt production, however that maybe, for example out of shield silos or harvesters.


I should have bothered to post what I have usually written on the subject: remove the bottlenecks from moon mineral production.

Donna Divine wrote:

I serieously wonder what'd happen if you'd end up with half of DRF's space being utter crap for a three month period due to the vagaries of the RNG, and the rest staying very good. Ima stand back an watch with interest then.


More than half of it is already utter crap, whats your point?

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies

Red Templar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2011-11-10 09:12:05 UTC
The only stalemate we have is in High-sec.

Look at the history of null-sec. There were always cries and whines about stalemate and "chinese" server. But alliances died, were reborn, died again. I think every null-sec alliance on the current political map has gone through that cycle, maybe even more than once. Except maybe TEST, but they are fairly new, and im sure they will have their chance to fail-cascade and come back stronger, or maybe just die.
Even the most stable political figure of the last few years - NC, has fallen down recently. And still there is some BS about stalemate.

[b]For Love. For Peace. For Honor.

For None of the Above.

For Pony![/b]

Previous page12