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Skill Discussions

 
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EVE's greatest strength - is also it's greatest weakness. The SP grind for new players.

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Sweeet
Homeworld Defense Collective
#61 - 2013-07-09 15:46:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I haven't deleted anything. Maybe you're thinking of someone else.


Sorry my bad, I could have sworn I saw it disappear... Must have been an old cache.

Malcanis wrote:
This confirms my suspeicious that you fundamentally understand the nature of skilltraining in EVE. Whether or not you realise it, you're thinking in the "skillpoints = levels" mode, as if 1 million SP = Level 1, 2 million SP = Level 2... 85 million SP = Level 85, and so on. And if skillpoints did work like this, you'd be correct: passive skillpoint gain would be a bad model.

But.

Skillpoints aren't analagous to character class levels. You get absolutely nothing, not a single extra hitpoint, not so much as a 0.01% increase on your chance to crit from having 10M or 100M or even a billion SP. You only get to fly more ships, and no matter how many SP you have you can only fly one ship at a time.

After 10 years, it takes exactly as many SP to take Gallente Cruiser 5 now as it did in 2003. And more importantly, Gallente Cruisers are still viable, useful ships just as they were in 2003. Indeed, perhaps now more than ever: the CFC are joyously deploying low skillpoint (or low ISK) pilots in Celestis fleets to support their battleships with devastating effect.

There's no "unclimbable wall" now; there won't be next year; there won't be in 10 years when there are characters with 300M SP.

The analogy I like to draw is with WoW; a 6 month player might have just got his Paladin to level cap (what is it, 90 now?) And assuming he's chosen the right talents and whatever, his Level 90 Paladin is as good as anyone else's. But a 6 year player might have a stable of a dozen or fifteen different characters in different classes and specialisations. If the raid needs a pally, then the 6 month guy is operating on the same level. But if the raid needs a healer or a hunter, then the 6 year guy is going to have an advantage, because he can chose a character that's perfectly optimised, while the 6 month guy will have to try and force his paladin into a role for which it is less optimised. That's how EVE skills work; you hit a "level cap" when your skills for a given ship are perfect, and after that all you can do is level cap in more types of ships. But no matter how many new ships you train for, it won't make you even 0.1% better in the ships you've already trained. All you're doing is widening the number of roles you can bring an optimised "Level 90" ship for.


OK we have slightly side-tracked from my original post. The issue I have for the most part with the SP wall, is that a T2 fit can have as much as a 50% advantage over a T1 fit. And given how long it can take to specialise for a T2 fit, it makes the game prohibitive for new players.

Unless you are saying all the various posts I researched in these very forums on the difference between T1 fits and T2 fits along with appropriate skills is wrong?

That is the SP wall I am talking about, being able to fit your Cruiser or whatever competitively can be extremely daunting for a new player when faced with what's out there. Alas a good corp isn't around every corner to save the day.

Stop being afraid, fly cheap and dangerous.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#62 - 2013-07-09 15:50:05 UTC
Sweeet wrote:
But it wouldn't hurt, and would actually help retain players by giving them choices they wouldn't otherwise have.

Except it would hurt. That's what everyone here is trying to get through to you.

Sweeet wrote:
True, but then not everyone wants to or can afford to level up alts to be competent in other areas.

Then they don't have to. Eve is about choices.

Incidentally, I've played the same single character for my entire Eve career (except for a couple of months of an RvB alt a while back, who was self-contained and no longer exists). I've dabbled in industry, mining, exploration, invention, and PI. I'm far from max skills in any of those, but I feel competent and useful in them. Any new player could reach and surpass my skills in any of those in a month or two.
Sweeet
Homeworld Defense Collective
#63 - 2013-07-09 15:55:41 UTC
Zor'katar wrote:
Except it would hurt. That's what everyone here is trying to get through to you.


How would it hurt exactly? The only valid reason people have come up with is the ISK wall. But that is a non-issue as people will either buy a PLEX to get the ISK, or just fly the cheaper ships whilst earning the ISK to fly the bigger ones, all whilst not feeling like they are not making any progress and giving the new players a greater choice. ISK is easy to get, SP is not, people are very quick to forget that.

So it will either help the economy buy getting people to buy PLEX, or nothing will change. Again, how is that going to hurt the game or new players?

Stop being afraid, fly cheap and dangerous.
Biff Ekpyrion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-07-09 15:57:57 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


The analogy I like to draw is with WoW; a 6 month player might have just got his Paladin to level cap (what is it, 90 now?) And assuming he's chosen the right talents and whatever, his Level 90 Paladin is as good as anyone else's. But a 6 year player might have a stable of a dozen or fifteen different characters in different classes and specialisations. If the raid needs a pally, then the 6 month guy is operating on the same level. But if the raid needs a healer or a hunter, then the 6 year guy is going to have an advantage, because he can chose a character that's perfectly optimised, while the 6 month guy will have to try and force his paladin into a role for which it is less optimised. That's how EVE skills work; you hit a "level cap" when your skills for a given ship are perfect, and after that all you can do is level cap in more types of ships. But no matter how many new ships you train for, it won't make you even 0.1% better in the ships you've already trained. All you're doing is widening the number of roles you can bring an optimised "Level 90" ship for.


Let me just state that what I am about to state is just my experience and my opinions.

An analogy with WoW can be made, sure. First off though, you're giving it too much credit. The fresh 90-pally probably isn't even near the veteran pally in regards to his gear. He probably needs to raid alot until then (at least, that's how it used to be, maybe it's not that way anymore).

The difference here, though, is that he actually had to make an effort to get to level 90 (and then another effort to get his gear.) It isn't enough to create a character and then simply wait 6 months for him to reach level 90 while being offline playing other games. Sure, WoW may be have been really "dumbed down" since its inception. I remember in the early years, being level 60 and having your full T2 set meant you actually had comitted time and energy actually playing and developing skills, both with people and with the game. (And yes I know you don't get any ships by simply waiting in EVE, but you can always simply buy them with real money through PLEX.)

That's, at least, what I would like to see more of in EVE in regards to the skill system. At least some way of speeding it up through playing, if only ever so slightly. I don't want to see it dumbed down or made cheap. I like my games hard core.

I guess its a choise between a narrower game with far fewer players (god knows I've tried to get at least one friend on board) or implementing at least some active form of grind.

Or I may be completely wrong and unjustified in my views, in which case it might simply be the perception of the time-sink i EVE that needs to be changed. If it's not the case, as many in this thread states, then it's certainly not beeing conveyed effectively to the gaming community.
Adhmaer en Thielles
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-07-09 16:46:13 UTC
Okay now let me give my point of view...

This is the third time I have come back as well, the first 2 times I thought I wanted to play a game where I could rat my way to "end game" and play with the big boys in space doing nifty stuff at "max level"

Fast forward 3 years. I have max level characters in almost every MMO imaginable and I have reached a point in gaming where I am able to max a character out within a couple weeks and be burned out on the game. Eve affords me the chance to play something slowly, to build a character I am proud of and that I am invested in without having to worry about "endgame". I have come back here to train my characters over time to become strong with work and not with being able to powerlevel my way to the top of the killboards.

So what am I saying? I disagree, the old school players have earned their stripes through good times and bad and I do not believe for a minute that anyone should not have to earn their way here. I am completely alone, I don't know anyone here and with time I know that I will meet some cool people, I will build my skills, and I will become "good" at the game in time. Being almost 40 has shown me that things worth getting are worth waiting for.

So thank you for not changing the game CCP, you have given an old raider a place to come and learn patience.
Sweeet
Homeworld Defense Collective
#66 - 2013-07-09 16:47:04 UTC
Biff Ekpyrion wrote:
That's, at least, what I would like to see more of in EVE in regards to the skill system. At least some way of speeding it up through playing, if only ever so slightly. I don't want to see it dumbed down or made cheap. I like my games hard core.

I guess its a choise between a narrower game with far fewer players (god knows I've tried to get at least one friend on board) or implementing at least some active form of grind.

Or I may be completely wrong and unjustified in my views, in which case it might simply be the perception of the time-sink i EVE that needs to be changed. If it's not the case, as many in this thread states, then it's certainly not beeing conveyed effectively to the gaming community.


I don't want to see it dumbed down or made cheap either, and I don't think you are wrong at all. All most people have tried to do in this thread is say we are wrong and to just join a decent corp, that'll fix everything... But what happens if we fold and just do as we are told? Nothing will happen, nothing at all. The game will still be a terrible place for new players and player retention will still suck. Hell it's not like we currently have a choice at the moment anyway, it's either fold and do as we're told or quit, and I don't know about you but I'm not liking those choices.

The SP wall for new players wanting to fit their ships out competitively in T2 fits with appropriate skills is extremely prohibitive. Veteran players wanting to mess with new players in their cheap ships with T2 fits can do so with ease, whilst a new player really has nothing to do about except "find a decent corp" which we have already established is not always an option. Softening the blow on new players by making some skills more readily available is not going to destroy EVE. Not one person has been able to come up with a valid concern that would harm anything other than ones pride. So what counters have been raised?

You will hit an ISK wall - PLEX, non-issue.

They will lose their expensive ship and quit - PLEX, non-issue. And if they quit over that, well then this game really isn't for them.

You are doing it wrong, join a decent corp - No a decent corp does not fix the games inherent flaw that turns people away from the game.


I really am at a loss to understand why so many people seem to be so incredibly upset over giving new players a slight boost in their SP when I am constantly being told SP means nothing. If it means nothing, why can you not fit your ship out with T2 until you've specialised for a couple of months? If it means nothing how is it going to hurt the game? If having loads of SP is no big deal, why are so many people intent on flat out putting a stop to it?

I've listed at least half a dozen reason on how giving new players a SP boost will not only make their entry into EVE more forgiving, but do so without impacting on the current players and all people can say is I’m wrong without being able to explain why? Mind boggled.

Stop being afraid, fly cheap and dangerous.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#67 - 2013-07-09 16:55:30 UTC
Sweeet wrote:
How would it hurt exactly? The only valid reason people have come up with is the ISK wall. But that is a non-issue as people will either buy a PLEX to get the ISK,

PLEX is a terrible justification for... pretty much anything. It's already treading a fine line near "Pay to Win", and it doesn't need to be moving farther in that direction.

Sweeet wrote:
or just fly the cheaper ships whilst earning the ISK to fly the bigger ones, all whilst not feeling like they are not making any progress

"Feeling" is the operative word there. They need help feeling useful, and that comes from experience, practice, and good advice, not SP.

Sweeet wrote:
So it will either help the economy buy getting people to buy PLEX

Who says more PLEX is good for the economy?
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#68 - 2013-07-09 16:55:50 UTC
I need to point out,

The new player earns his SP at exactly the same rate that I do.
(In fact they can have a 30 day boost to learning which I never had)
If I want to mine tomorrow and eventually manufacture and freighter stuff around, I have to start at the bottom.
If I want to invent things in a POS, I have to start at the bottom.

You seem to be stuck on 'Battleships', but where do you draw the line?
Where is the breaking point of: "He had to train that, but I want it for free"
Sweeet
Homeworld Defense Collective
#69 - 2013-07-09 16:57:16 UTC
Adhmaer en Thielles wrote:
Okay now let me give my point of view...

This is the third time I have come back as well, the first 2 times I thought I wanted to play a game where I could rat my way to "end game" and play with the big boys in space doing nifty stuff at "max level"

Fast forward 3 years. I have max level characters in almost every MMO imaginable and I have reached a point in gaming where I am able to max a character out within a couple weeks and be burned out on the game. Eve affords me the chance to play something slowly, to build a character I am proud of and that I am invested in without having to worry about "endgame". I have come back here to train my characters over time to become strong with work and not with being able to powerlevel my way to the top of the killboards.

So what am I saying? I disagree, the old school players have earned their stripes through good times and bad and I do not believe for a minute that anyone should not have to earn their way here. I am completely alone, I don't know anyone here and with time I know that I will meet some cool people, I will build my skills, and I will become "good" at the game in time. Being almost 40 has shown me that things worth getting are worth waiting for.

So thank you for not changing the game CCP, you have given an old raider a place to come and learn patience.


You seem to be under the impression that giving a slight boost to new players would be game changing and retract from your current experience. Well it won't, what I propose would only help ease new players into the game, it would give them 2-3 months worth of SP at most and take away the almighty shock the game gives new players when they see just how daunting all that choice can be. That is it, nothing else will fundamentally change.

It will not turn new players into gods. It will not have them flying out of starter zones and pawning Vets. It is not going to change anyone's experience what so ever barring that of the new player that would likely quit without some sorely needed changes.

You would think I was trying to change something that would destroy the experience for veteran players - I am not Ugh

Stop being afraid, fly cheap and dangerous.
JJ Logan
Doomheim
#70 - 2013-07-09 17:01:39 UTC  |  Edited by: JJ Logan
Sweeet wrote:
The issue I have for the most part with the SP wall, is that a T2 fit can have as much as a 50% advantage over a T1 fit. And given how long it can take to specialise for a T2 fit, it makes the game prohibitive for new players.


You only think it makes the game prohibitive to new players due to your own biased perspective. Don't presume to speak for all newbies. Just because you cannot grasp the concepts already explained doesn't mean I or other newbs can't. Skill points do count, no one is saying it doesn't, but it's not as much as you think it does. No need to divert development resources that cost time and money from other areas of Eve to change a system that is already good for the majority of the existing player base and for those who will come after us that can appreciate Eve for what it is. We all start out at the bottom. We all have to earn our stripes.
Sweeet
Homeworld Defense Collective
#71 - 2013-07-09 17:04:25 UTC
Zor'katar wrote:
PLEX is a terrible justification for... pretty much anything. It's already treading a fine line near "Pay to Win", and it doesn't need to be moving farther in that direction.


PLEX is here to stay, and at least it means CCP get the proceeds from player sold ISK which is where it belongs rather than 3rd parties.

Zor'katar wrote:
"Feeling" is the operative word there. They need help feeling useful, and that comes from experience, practice, and good advice, not SP.


You are doing a very good job at dodging the question. How is giving new players a slight SP boost going to hurt the game as you claimed?

Zor'katar wrote:
Who says more PLEX is good for the economy?


Well it's not going anywhere, and it makes it cheaper for those who fund their game time through ISK. So I guess it depends on which economy you are looking at, the games or that of the player.

Stop being afraid, fly cheap and dangerous.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#72 - 2013-07-09 17:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Zor'katar
Sweeet wrote:
PLEX is here to stay, and at least it means CCP get the proceeds from player sold ISK which is where it belongs rather than 3rd parties.

Indeed, it's a fine system, but it needs to remain purely optional. As soon as you start giving new players the ability to fly ships that there's no way they have the capacity of affording (or refraining from losing) within the game, it's not really that optional anymore. If new players start being driven away feeling like they need to buy PLEX to be competitive, that's going to do FAR more harm to Eve's reputation than players feeling like they're behind on SP.

Sweeet wrote:
You are doing a very good job at dodging the question. How is giving new players a slight SP boost going to hurt the game as you claimed?

You're right, I forgot to answer the question. It'll hurt new players by causing them to lose large chunks of ISK by flying things they're simply not ready to fly. It'll hurt everyone by devaluing SP.

Sweeet wrote:
Well it's not going anywhere, and it makes it cheaper for those who fund their game time through ISK. So I guess it depends on which economy you are looking at, the games or that of the player.

That of the player or of CCP is irrelevant to this discussion. That of the game is mostly indifferent to the existence of PLEX as far as I know. But I'll take input from any marketeer nerd that feels like jumping in.
Sweeet
Homeworld Defense Collective
#73 - 2013-07-09 17:21:42 UTC
JJ Logan wrote:
Sweeet wrote:
The issue I have for the most part with the SP wall, is that a T2 fit can have as much as a 50% advantage over a T1 fit. And given how long it can take to specialise for a T2 fit, it makes the game prohibitive for new players.


You only think it makes the game prohibitive to new players due to your own biased perspective. Don't presume to speak for all newbies. Just because you cannot grasp the concepts already explained doesn't mean I or other newbs can't. Skill points do count, no one is saying it doesn't, but it's not as much as you think it does. No need to divert development resources that cost time and money from other areas of Eve to change a system that is already good for the majority of the existing player base and for those who will come after us that can appreciate Eve for what it is. We all start out at the bottom. We all have to earn our stripes.


So the dozens new players from my corp who have quit because they find the game too unforgiving means nothing? Just because some new players are happy to live with the restrictions doesn't mean an issue doesn't exist.

This has nothing to do with existing players and won't affect them in the slightest.
You mean all those players who come after us and quit because the game is unable to retain a meaningful amount of new players?
Nothing about giving new players a slight head start will stop them from appreciating the game for the long haul. If anything it will make them appreciate the game even more as they will be able to experience more of it and in turn will be less likely to quit.

You people really aren't winning any arguments here. I'm sorry if that makes me sound arrogant, but I really am at a loss to see what all the fuss is about. Most of you can't even comprehend that this change will not affect you in the slightest, yet you defend the current system that is clearly turning new players away like it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Stop being afraid, fly cheap and dangerous.
Nox Solitudo
That Random Worker Ant Colony
#74 - 2013-07-09 17:31:04 UTC
OP, please don't play this game. There is Star Citizen, Age of Wushu, if you want to play sandboxes , or there are tons of themepark games, all of them giving stuff for free to you. Please go there and leave us, stinking ugly primitive ******** players who do not feel entitled to get shinies from developers immediately (yes, a month is immediately).

Just don't play this game. People like you killed UO, EQ, WoW and other games, so please leave EVE and go enjoy the games; I can't do that anymore so leave at least this one game (two, but I''m not gonna tell YOU the name of the other game, I want to play it) for us.

I'm not trying to explain you that this game doesn't cater to every single drooling idiot who wants to get to ZOMGLARGESHIP immediately, because you apparently didn't listen to thousands of guides, forum posts etc. Obviously you ignored all those people who tried to explain you that you don't need ZOMGLARGESHIP to enjoy the game. You Almighty WANT to fly that ship no matter what, in your eyes it's ENDGAME because obviously there has to be an ENDGAME in any game, who cares that this is a sandbox, and obviously you need a ZOMGLARGESHIP to enjoy anything in this game, especially your lvl 4 missions you run for 3 months (or whatever you need ZOMGLARGESHIP for). There is nothing else in this game than flying ZOMGLARGESHIPS and people like me who love frigates are just totally poor or whatever, I don't know.

Leave at least one game for people who don't want to get everything immediately now. You have plenty of other games, so please, one game, JUST ONE. Thank you in advance.

P.S. yes, my post is angry, because I'm really scared that CCP would (God forbids!) listen to people like OP. Especially if I see that people are actually discussing how to twist this game into yet another candy-giving fluff stuff, instead of refusing such idea. Have you guys tried to play any SWTOR/RIFT/WoW recently?
Sweeet
Homeworld Defense Collective
#75 - 2013-07-09 17:31:57 UTC
Zor'katar wrote:
Indeed, it's a fine system, but it needs to remain purely optional. As soon as you start giving new players the ability to fly ships that there's no way they have the capacity of affording (or refraining from losing) within the game, it's not really that optional anymore. If new players start being driven away feeling like they need to buy PLEX to be competitive, that's going to do FAR more harm to Eve's reputation than players feeling like they're behind on SP.


New players are already being driven away...that's kind of the point. Losing an expensive ship is a risk that should be left down to the player. Putting up with a crappy system for new players or quitting isn't really a choice at all. At least new players will have a choice rather than quitting. I honestly don't think it sully EVE's reputation in the slightest. You can buy characters for ISK for crying out loud...nothing can sink lower than that at this stage. How do you think players buy these new characters in the first place? They buy PLEX of course.

Zor'katar wrote:
You're right, I forgot to answer the question. It'll hurt new players by causing them to lose large chunks of ISK by flying things they're simply not ready to fly. It'll hurt everyone by devaluing SP.


We've covered ISK already. SP is entirely personal to the character that holds it, it can not be devalued in any way whatsoever.

Zor'katar wrote:
That of the player or of CCP is irrelevant to this discussion. That of the game is mostly indifferent to the existence of PLEX as far as I know. But I'll take input from any marketeer nerd that feels like jumping in.


If the game is mostly indifferent to the existence of PLEX, then players buying PLEX pretty much becomes a moot point.

Stop being afraid, fly cheap and dangerous.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-07-09 17:32:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:

The analogy I like to draw is with WoW; a 6 month player might have just got his Paladin to level cap (what is it, 90 now?) And assuming he's chosen the right talents and whatever, his Level 90 Paladin is as good as anyone else's. But a 6 year player might have a stable of a dozen or fifteen different characters in different classes and specialisations. If the raid needs a pally, then the 6 month guy is operating on the same level. But if the raid needs a healer or a hunter, then the 6 year guy is going to have an advantage, because he can chose a character that's perfectly optimised, while the 6 month guy will have to try and force his paladin into a role for which it is less optimised. That's how EVE skills work; you hit a "level cap" when your skills for a given ship are perfect, and after that all you can do is level cap in more types of ships. But no matter how many new ships you train for, it won't make you even 0.1% better in the ships you've already trained. All you're doing is widening the number of roles you can bring an optimised "Level 90" ship for.


quoting cause best parallel I've seen drawn between the two games.

Art of Explosions
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#77 - 2013-07-09 17:33:09 UTC
Sweeet wrote:
You people really aren't winning any arguments here. I'm sorry if that makes me sound arrogant, but I really am at a loss to see what all the fuss is about. Most of you can't even comprehend that this change will not affect you in the slightest, yet you defend the current system that is clearly turning new players away like it's the best thing since sliced bread.

What makes you sound arrogant is the fact that you can go from "I've known a few people who quit because the game is harsh" to "I understand the effects of making changes to major game systems more than the lot of you who have vastly more experience in this game than I do".

Also, there is pretty much nothing you can do in this game that won't affect anyone else.
Adhmaer en Thielles
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-07-09 17:36:55 UTC
Sweeet wrote:
You people really aren't winning any arguments here. I'm sorry if that makes me sound arrogant, but I really am at a loss to see what all the fuss is about. Most of you can't even comprehend that this change will not affect you in the slightest, yet you defend the current system that is clearly turning new players away like it's the best thing since sliced bread.


So basically "I want what I want so your arguments are invalid". If the changes were as meaningless as you profess them to be, why on Earth would you be arguing so hard in favor of them? Obviously they would give someone an advantage of being able to more quickly fly ships that they are not skilled enough at character creation to fly.

Let's give an example, I 21 day free trial, I buy a $5 beginner kit, I buy 5 plex and sell them on the market, I put myself in a ship I don't belong in and I go into null-sec, I blow up someone who has been playing the game for 10 years by "rich-kidding" my way into a ship that I would normally had to have spent some time working for...seems legit.
Sweeet
Homeworld Defense Collective
#79 - 2013-07-09 17:37:35 UTC
Nox Solitudo wrote:
OP, please don't play this game. There is Star Citizen, Age of Wushu, if you want to play sandboxes , or there are tons of themepark games, all of them giving stuff for free to you. Please go there and leave us, stinking ugly primitive ******** players who do not feel entitled to get shinies from developers immediately (yes, a month is immediately).

Just don't play this game. People like you killed UO, EQ, WoW and other games, so please leave EVE and go enjoy the games; I can't do that anymore so leave at least this one game (two, but I''m not gonna tell YOU the name of the other game, I want to play it) for us.

I'm not trying to explain you that this game doesn't cater to every single drooling idiot who wants to get to ZOMGLARGESHIP immediately, because you apparently didn't listen to thousands of guides, forum posts etc. Obviously you ignored all those people who tried to explain you that you don't need ZOMGLARGESHIP to enjoy the game. You Almighty WANT to fly that ship no matter what, in your eyes it's ENDGAME because obviously there has to be an ENDGAME in any game, who cares that this is a sandbox, and obviously you need a ZOMGLARGESHIP to enjoy anything in this game, especially your lvl 4 missions you run for 3 months (or whatever you need ZOMGLARGESHIP for). There is nothing else in this game than flying ZOMGLARGESHIPS and people like me who love frigates are just totally poor or whatever, I don't know.

Leave at least one game for people who don't want to get everything immediately now. You have plenty of other games, so please, one game, JUST ONE. Thank you in advance.

P.S. yes, my post is angry, because I'm really scared that CCP would (God forbids!) listen to people like OP. Especially if I see that people are actually discussing how to twist this game into yet another candy-giving fluff stuff, instead of refusing such idea. Have you guys tried to play any SWTOR/RIFT/WoW recently?


Wow there, take a deep breath now. What has any of that got to do with making the game more hospitable for new players?

As an example, lets say you gave every new player 10mil SP from the get go to place where they want, and that's just an example! How would that fundamentally break the game for the new player and others playing it? It can't.

Stop being afraid, fly cheap and dangerous.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-07-09 17:39:38 UTC
Also I still don't understand where you found the "tech 2 is 50% better than tech 1" bull from.

Almost every meta 4 (yes this is tech 1) module has the SAME stats as a tech 2 module with lower fitting costs and the ONLY advantages you get from training tech 2 is the 2-10% increased damage from gun specialisations and ability to use tech 2 ammunition which is not always better than tech 1.

The modules which do not have meta 4 versions (for example adaptive invul fields and armour hardeners) the tech 2 versions are not overwhelmingly better either, it's something like a 5% difference between the meta and tech 2 versions.

You can easily defeat a veteran player in 1vs1 combat as a 5 day old if you had the experience and knowledge to pull it off, however you DON'T have this experience and knowledge and this is where the main point comes in:

Even if you had all this extra free sp would you even know how to use it?

Art of Explosions