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C4 Fleet Composition
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Karinna DeVries
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-07-08 16:13:09 UTC
Hi Everyone,

Some corp-mates and I were looking at trying to find a C4 wormhole to clear out in the next couple of months, and we had a few questions. We've previously maintained a base in a C2, so we do have some small experience with wormholes.

Mainly we are concerned with fleet composition for clearing the sleeper sites. Class 4 is a significant step above Class 2. We are a very small corp, and it's likely that the combat fleet at any given time will only be 5 people. As it stands, we essentially have two choices. Training for Tengus at this time is not an option.

Option 1: BS Spider Fleet. We can all fly T2 fitted battleships, half Amarr half Gallente. We'd probably have something like a Dominix or two, a couple of Geddons and a Loki. The damage on these would be great, but I'm concerned about the tanking ability. This also gives us some PVP ability apart from the deathstar. Most of us have the tank and guns/drones on these totally maxed skill wise.

Option 2: Drake Spider Fleet: This would have 4 of us flying Drakes, which we can T2 tank, but our missile skills are not excellent. One member would fly a Rattlesnake at his own request. It seems like the tank on these would be great, but I'm concerned about the damage dealing ability and site clear times. Also we lose virtually all PVP ability apart from the PoS.

So after talking in circles we decided the best thing to do would be to ask the more experienced WH community. Which of these fleets should we be flying in a C4? Are there options we've overlooked?
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#2 - 2013-07-08 16:16:28 UTC
Aslong as you've got atleast 3 domi/geddons spidering RR then tank shouldn't be an issue in a C4, the 4x safeguard wave might be a bit more challenging but everything else should be trivial to tank.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#3 - 2013-07-08 16:22:52 UTC
I havent had a huge amount of experience but a few spider tanked Domi/geddons with Cap chain to negate neuting should be able to run at least most of the sites.
Svodola Darkfury
Cloak and Daggers
The Initiative.
#4 - 2013-07-08 16:32:08 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Aslong as you've got atleast 3 domi/geddons spidering RR then tank shouldn't be an issue in a C4, the 4x safeguard wave might be a bit more challenging but everything else should be trivial to tank.


As Rroff said, minimum 3 domi/geddons as RR "hubs" and you'll be fine. The 4x Safeguard wave only occurs on one type of Relic/Data each, so if you avoid those you'll be golden. The spawn ranges in those are annoying anyways.


Svo.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-07-08 16:34:23 UTC
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=WormholeSpaceClass4

Max DPS numbers listed for the anoms is pretty accurate.

The only anom with hard neuting is a barracks second wave, but can be mitigated depending on fleet comp (not hard to fly this anom and be able to skirt outside neut range.

Most C4 anoms have pretty long ranges. Being able to engage out to ~100km is nice. some sites have waves that start as far as 120km (150km+ for data and relic) but they burn in fast so 100km still works.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-07-08 16:53:01 UTC
the sleeper neuts will be the biggest problem
a cap chain will counter it though

You'll get sleeper spawns at 90+ km
2 drone links will let you manually select your targets at range


as a fyi, I loaded Bouncers, Gardes & Hobs into a Gila (in a C4 Pulsar)
and never had any problems with losing those hobs, even when they were all the way out at max control range
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-07-08 16:57:45 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
the sleeper neuts will be the biggest problem


People always say this. The only dangerous anom is a Barracks, which i guess neuts hard if you just sit at 0 and let them spawn in range. I can dual box these in Tengus and i just stay 73km away and no neuting

The only other anoms that neut have 1 Sleepless Safeguard, which can't neut out the same tengu with 64% cap stability.


But seriously. C4's are no fun. You don't want to move into them.
Karinna DeVries
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-07-08 17:25:21 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
the sleeper neuts will be the biggest problem


People always say this. The only dangerous anom is a Barracks, which i guess neuts hard if you just sit at 0 and let them spawn in range. I can dual box these in Tengus and i just stay 73km away and no neuting

The only other anoms that neut have 1 Sleepless Safeguard, which can't neut out the same tengu with 64% cap stability.


But seriously. C4's are no fun. You don't want to move into them.


Can you be more specific? We are only planning on staying a couple of weeks.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-07-08 17:34:00 UTC
Karinna DeVries wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
the sleeper neuts will be the biggest problem


People always say this. The only dangerous anom is a Barracks, which i guess neuts hard if you just sit at 0 and let them spawn in range. I can dual box these in Tengus and i just stay 73km away and no neuting

The only other anoms that neut have 1 Sleepless Safeguard, which can't neut out the same tengu with 64% cap stability.


But seriously. C4's are no fun. You don't want to move into them.


Can you be more specific? We are only planning on staying a couple of weeks.


Joking. C4's are stupid easy to farm because they so empty.
Karinna DeVries
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-07-08 17:48:15 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Karinna DeVries wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
the sleeper neuts will be the biggest problem


People always say this. The only dangerous anom is a Barracks, which i guess neuts hard if you just sit at 0 and let them spawn in range. I can dual box these in Tengus and i just stay 73km away and no neuting

The only other anoms that neut have 1 Sleepless Safeguard, which can't neut out the same tengu with 64% cap stability.


But seriously. C4's are no fun. You don't want to move into them.


Can you be more specific? We are only planning on staying a couple of weeks.


Joking. C4's are stupid easy to farm because they so empty.


Sorry, I was confused there for a moment. :)
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#11 - 2013-07-08 18:06:05 UTC
Two of these (below) is enough for repping in all C4 anomalies, except for within a pulsar (because of the armor debuff...)
[Armageddon, WH Spider-rep]
Damage Control II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Remote Sensor Booster II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Centum A-Type Medium Remote Armor Repair System
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Anti-EM Pump I
Large Anti-Explosive Pump I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

Add an arbitrary number of dps ships for an arbitrary multiplying of sleeper killing. The Armageddons puts off a DPS of 664 with max skills and Garde IIs.
Karinna DeVries
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-07-08 18:06:17 UTC
I have another question if anyone is still around. We were looking to bring an Orca, but as I understand it they won't fit through the smaller WHs. Are we going to have to find a WH in lowsec or somewhere to get this thing in?
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#13 - 2013-07-08 18:12:59 UTC
Karinna DeVries wrote:
I have another question if anyone is still around. We were looking to bring an Orca, but as I understand it they won't fit through the smaller WHs. Are we going to have to find a WH in lowsec or somewhere to get this thing in?


Any path that doesn't include a C1 wormhole will let them through.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormholes#Wormhole_Identification
Down at the bottom, there's a complete list of the wormholes in eve along with details about them. Great info for wormholers.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-07-08 18:21:34 UTC
Karinna DeVries wrote:
I have another question if anyone is still around. We were looking to bring an Orca, but as I understand it they won't fit through the smaller WHs. Are we going to have to find a WH in lowsec or somewhere to get this thing in?


Orca can fit though anything but a C1. C4's NEVER get a direct k-space connection.
Robert Morningstar
Morningstar Excavations LTD
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#15 - 2013-07-08 20:22:26 UTC
So if you are looking to move the orca in and out a lot you want to find a c4 with a c2 static then when you enter the static check static mapper to see if it has a b274 static.
Karinna DeVries
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-07-08 21:27:45 UTC
Yeah, we knew about the lack of connections to k-space. We actually hoped that would keep things more private.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I think you've answered all my questions.
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
#17 - 2013-07-09 04:27:07 UTC
Greetings fellow carebear. Just aim for 1400 dps tank & range to hit out to 90km. For the mags/radars aim for 2k+ tank. Best site to run is Frontier Barracks. Only 3 frigs that scram, everything else is BS or cruiser and dies fast.

Also, I haven't had a 4 safeguard spawn after Odyssey. Are they gone or just bugged?
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#18 - 2013-07-09 12:11:42 UTC
for anoms you should have 1500 dps tank and for mags/radars at least 2000. And as much DPS as you can on 100Km. It can be done by RR shield domies. I use 3 of those:

[Dominix, C4 magnetar slave]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Co-Processor II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II

Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Transporter
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I


Hammerhead II x5
Curator II x5

lead by on of this:
[Dominix, C3-4 magnetar leader]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Signal Amplifier II
Signal Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Signal Amplifier II
Co-Processor II

Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II

Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Transporter
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I


Garde I x5
Hammerhead II x5
Curator II x5
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
#19 - 2013-07-09 13:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Evangelina Nolen
isn't that fit a little light on the therm resist?
Switch curators with bouncers.
3x sig amps is way way too much.
Not much buffer. i.e. cant do sites while drunk & watching tv

edit: nvm, just read the mag setup part. Does the mag tracking nonsense affect drones?
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#20 - 2013-07-09 13:36:30 UTC
Oska Rus wrote:
for anoms you should have 1500 dps tank and for mags/radars at least 2000. And as much DPS as you can on 100Km. It can be done by RR shield domies. I use 3 of those:

[Dominix, C4 magnetar slave]
*Fit goes here*

lead by on of this:
[Dominix, C3-4 magnetar leader]
*Fit goes here*


- You don't need all those tracking links anymore now that Odyssey redid the Domi. Or atleast not 2 of them like the slaves have.
That thermal hole coupled with a low shield EHP worries me, since the em/thermal missiles from the battleships will spike your shield with each volley.
- There's a problem with 7 active targets on the slaves, with spider tanking you'd want more. And for being a Magnetar slave, only having a 57.75km targeting range with a 105-108km drone control range is a weird combination.
- Why would you decide to use 5 DDAs? Even 4 is a questionable choice, since the low-slots can be used for utility.
- 3 Egress rigs are on the high side, since they're stable with 2 and lasts for 18mins with 1.
- The drone bay is wierd off, there's no reason to not use the whole drone bay...and why the T1 Gardes?

Suggestion:
[Dominix, WH Spider (Shield)]
Damage Control II
Signal Amplifier II
Signal Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Co-Processor II

Dread Guristas EM Ward Field
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Transporter
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I


Garde II x5
Vespa II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hornet II x5
Bouncer II x5

Better tank (5 vs 3.6 in average res, 46k vs 32k shield ehp, 900ehp/sec rep vs 450)
Lower damage (3 DDAs vs 5...)
Lower drone control range (but with a higher total range because of the higher targeting range)
Higher amount of active targets (11 vs 7)

Might be something else as well, but those are the major points.
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