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Nosferatu--Neutralizer Balancing
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Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#1 - 2013-07-09 03:01:47 UTC
Every man and his dog has an opinion on how to balance or "improve" nosferatus. The problem with most "solutions" is that they would render energy neutralisers obsolete.

So here's my plan to balance the Nos with the neut: get rid of them both and replace them with a single cap-warfare module whose behaviour can be modified with a script.

Here's the concept:

  • The new module creates a connection between the capacitors of the attacker and the defender to allow the flow of energy between them.
  • The new module has 2 modes of operation. (scripted and un-scripted).
  • Scripted mode is a "driven" energy transfer whereby energy is sucked out of the target at the cost of the attacker's own cap. (same as existing Neut mechanic).

  • Un-scripted mode is a passive energy transfer whereby the 2 capacitors exchange energy in such a way as to reach equilibrium.
  • If the target ship has more cap than you, their cap will flow into yours until you have the same cap. (Absolute values, not percentages).
  • With the new module this process would also work in reverse, making it possible to feed cap to your enemy if you choose the wrong target or forget to load the script.
  • Once equilibrium is reached, the 2 ships effectively share their capacitors with each other for as long as the module is active.
  • If the capacitor of 1 ship becomes full, it cannot drain any more cap from the other ship because there is nowhere for it to go.

    • Summary:

  • 1 type of cap-warfare module instead of 2 --> nothing gets made obsolete
  • load a script --> works just like existing energy neutraliser
  • don't load a script --> slightly amended nosferatu. (Same as latest mechanic changes put forward by dev team, but with the addition that it stops working if the cap of the ship with the smaller cap battery becomes full).

    • Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
    Caleb Seremshur
    Bloodhorn
    Patchwork Freelancers
    #2 - 2013-07-09 06:09:54 UTC
    a single module that can be reprogrammed to function like either is exactly the same as having 2 separate modules. Nothing has changed. You either fix how nos and neuts compare to each other or you remove one entirely as a redundant module.
    Gypsio III
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #3 - 2013-07-09 07:39:07 UTC
    I like the way how you acknowledge the problem of ideas for Nos that render neuts obsolete, and then propose an idea for a scripted Nos that does exactly, explicitly, that.
    Debora Tsung
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #4 - 2013-07-09 08:54:16 UTC
    I propose a module that turns both, the neutralizer and the nosferatu and all other cap transfer modules obsolete.

    The energy equalizer.

    It links the capacitors of two ships together until they're both at the same level. Awesome isn't it?

    it's THE module for frigates that fight battleships, since the frigates capacitor is so much smaller than that of a battleship it'll give the frigate endless cap while draining the batteries of the battleship at the same time.

    Also, if You ahve a ship with a very large capacitor and a high cap recharge rate, You can use it to boost You allies cap.

    IT'd make You immune to traditional enemy cap warfare since they'd effectively neuting/nosing (haha "nosing", I like that) themselves once you activated Your module...

    In short, it'd be plain awesome! Lol

    Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

    Fighting back is more fun than not.

    Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
    Lallante
    Blue Republic
    RvB - BLUE Republic
    #5 - 2013-07-09 10:38:41 UTC
    Every suggestion in this thread is bad.
    Debora Tsung
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #6 - 2013-07-09 10:43:38 UTC
    Lallante wrote:
    Every suggestion in this thread is bad.


    it was supposed to be a joke, actually. Shocked

    Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

    Fighting back is more fun than not.

    Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
    Caldari 5
    D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
    Affirmative.
    #7 - 2013-07-09 11:12:34 UTC
    Personally I think that the NOS and Neut should be more like Rails and Blasters etc
    NOS is longer range but lower Cap/s, Neut is short range but higher Cap/s
    Both should have an activation cost, however the NOS should draw more than the activation cost transferring it, that way if your target ship caps out and you are not watching it, you also cap out.
    Currently in small Meta 0 you have
    NOS
    Activation -8
    Targetcapbonus -8
    Optimal 5500
    Duration 3
    cap/s 2.66

    Neut
    Activation 45
    Targetcapbonus -45
    Optimal 5250
    Duration 6
    cap/s 7.5

    Personally I would prefer to see something like
    NOS
    Activation 2
    Targetcapbonus -8
    Selfcapbonus 10 (effectively giving 8 due to the subtraction of the activation)
    Optimal 10000 (plus a skill to augment this)
    Duration 3
    cap/s 2.66

    Neut
    Activation 45
    Targetcapbonus -45
    Optimal 5000 (plus a skill to augment this)
    Duration 6
    cap/s 7.5

    As you go up in size I would suggest something like a missile Explosion radius vs signature radius effect, so a Large NOS/Neut would not destroy as much from a Frig that it would from a Battleship
    Swiftstrike1
    Swiftstrike Incorporated
    #8 - 2013-07-09 15:03:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftstrike1
    Gypsio III wrote:
    I like the way how you acknowledge the problem of ideas for Nos that render neuts obsolete, and then propose an idea for a scripted Nos that does exactly, explicitly, that.


    How can it make Neuts obsolete if they are removed entirely? The ability to swap between neut and nos type behaviour with a script will make this into the only cap warfare mod. This is intentional. I did say quite explicitly that this module was intended to replace neuts and nos rather than exist alongside them.

    Debora Tsung wrote:
    I propose a module that turns both, the neutralizer and the nosferatu and all other cap transfer modules obsolete.

    The energy equalizer.

    It links the capacitors of two ships together until they're both at the same level. Awesome isn't it?

    it's THE module for frigates that fight battleships, since the frigates capacitor is so much smaller than that of a battleship it'll give the frigate endless cap while draining the batteries of the battleship at the same time.

    Also, if You ahve a ship with a very large capacitor and a high cap recharge rate, You can use it to boost You allies cap.

    IT'd make You immune to traditional enemy cap warfare since they'd effectively neuting/nosing (haha "nosing", I like that) themselves once you activated Your module...

    In short, it'd be plain awesome!
    Get back under your bridge! P

  • "linking capacitors until they're at the same level" is exactly what existing NOS modules do so what's your point?
  • "its THE module for frigates fighting battleships" --> if you read the official thread on changes to the NOS mechanic, this is already true (or about to be).
  • "You can use it to boost You allies cap." --> TRUE, though it won't be nearly as effective as an energy transfer and if you do this, your enemy can neut you both at the same time with just 1 module so its not unbalanced at all imo.
  • "IT'd make You immune to traditional enemy cap warfare since they'd effectively neuting/nosing themselves once you activated Your module..." ---> Not true at all. It's not an instant equilibrium. It would be achieved slowly in the same way that a nosferatu does it already.

    • The idea of giving "Nos mode" a small activation cost is interesting. I was surprised by feedback... I thought the main objection would be "it makes cap warfare too easy if there's only 1 module to fit".

    Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
    XXSketchxx
    Sniggerdly
    Pandemic Legion
    #9 - 2013-07-09 17:15:20 UTC
    There's literally a stickied thread on this sub forum on this very topic and how CCP has planned to balance them.

    But you're special and needed your own thread, right?
    Caldari 5
    D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
    Affirmative.
    #10 - 2013-07-10 03:31:55 UTC
    XXSketchxx wrote:
    There's literally a stickied thread on this sub forum on this very topic and how CCP has planned to balance them.

    But you're special and needed your own thread, right?

    That is more like CCP Telling us what they are about to do, with very little long term planning from them, if it was a more of a discussion about how to go about balancing NOS/Nuet I would agree with you.