EVE General Discussion

I just think its funny how you think people should have to" play the game" only when it suites you.

Well, the point of using noobships over and over is by itself an exploit I'd think. Not the case or point here, but it could be. Because they weren't using it "over and over" like each ship was a bullet. They were doing it solely to refresh a timer. That's where it becomes an exploit. "Hurry, aggress him again so the timer doesn't fade" as opposed to just keep throwing ships at him in a combat matter such as you suggest.

Now, I do need to concede the fact we only know it's an hour because he said so. Regardless of the truth or lie, that is what we have to go with and it is his claim.. so, benefit of the doubt I guess. As to a GM ruling on it.. I agree with that. I in fact mentioned it and supported it. I still think it's good cause for a petition.

That 55 minute example you gave.. well... how I see things, from both players and the game, is that you should only have 15 minutes to accomplish that goal. HTFU and all that. If you can't meet the burden, you don;t get the reward. Now we all know this game isn't about "fairness", but for the sake of "equality", let's say it isn't fair enough to go with that. So what should be done?

In "fairness of equality" I suggested diminishing returns. That way, it doesn't hurt anyone in regards to the act being allowed or disallowed. It also gives any pilot a way to reduce cost of the entire event. Noone is forced to fly or gank anything we as all know. We also like to throw in everyone's face how hardcore or cold and harsh this game can be.


As a mechanic, I can see how steps were put into place to not allow combat avoidance. It makes perfect sense and I've never argued it. I do however argue the manipulation of such a thing as there is no intent to kill a freighter with noobships, and the ships used to bump (machs) incurred no aggression. Also I'm pretty certain it was the same pilot throwing those noobships at it, not intending to kill it, but to hold it via the timer.


The metagame of calling for help, whether it was an option to use or not, is in my opinion irrelevant because we aren't talking about the ability or options of the pilot, but the limitations of the hull and design of the timers in conjuncture with. Your ability to broadcast in local or alliance/corp/inte/whatever has nothing to do with the hull you're flying.

Using both machs and noobships did nothing but extend an amount of time until the ganksquad showed up to do the deed is by itself not an abuse or act of harassment. Atleast in my eyes. But to the point of excess....? There's the rub. That's an insane amount of time and like baltec1 said in a previous post.. most freighter pilots would love that kind of a window. Unfortunately we are talking about mechanics however. My opinion or how I would have handled it isn't in question.

Anyways, yea... end of the day, the pilot should petition it like any other cap pilot does when they lose their ship (:P) and see what the GMs do in this instance.

To me, like I said many times and earlier, it should have been handled differently and both sides definitely showed a lack of ability.

An hour is a long time if you need to string 15 minute timers together.

By itself 60 minutes is not much by itself, but it is excessive to hold a ship in highsec with noobships.

As much as you think it's "crap", it still comes down to it being a limitation everyone has the option of exercising. Like in a different post, I'm not talking about pulling the plug at a moment's notice.. but there does have to be a realm of plausability beyond downtime.

No, that just makes me think of some kind of "Freighter vs Freighter Bumpathon!", imagined as some manner of ponderous spacewhale sex act.

Why? I don't think there should be. If you end up in an engagement, I think it's perfectly reasonable that you remain involved in that engagement until it ends 'naturally' - that is to say, you win the fight, you escape, or you lose the fight. Not "it's exceeded some arbitrary time limit, so now I am allowed to kill the client and get away scott free tee hee"

Still doesn't refute my point though.

Ok, then. It's ability to create an aggression timer or not, has no bearing on it's suitability to be involved as a participant in a fight, thus incurring an aggression timer. An unwilling participant, is still a participant.



I'd have to ask you again why noobships are the issue here. If they used Rifters, or Tormentors, or whatever else, the result is the same. Ships are ships. It quite literally is not of any relevance what they used to keep him aggressed.

Because it lends to the idea that they are playing outside the scope of the intended mechanics put in place. They were not intending to kill him with those ships. They used free ships to specifically manipulate a timer.

If you want to assess the situation and say with certainty that the noobships were intended to be used as the dps required to make it a wreck, that's your prerogative.

We both know that is most likely not true.

The game does not, and can't really be made to, distinguish between them.



No, I meant the thread in general. I've seen it brought up several times.



Yes, blowing up his ship or ejecting does accelerate the loss. If his point is, as some have suggested, that it was unfair because they could bump him for so long, then accelerating the loss is in fact an acceptable option. But that isn't really what he wanted, what he wanted was immunity from the actions of others, which is clear in both his language in the OP (unedited, that is), and in his subsequent posts.



Yes and no. He does have a shot, that being, not make himself a target in the first place, get someone to web him out, counter bumping, drawing it out long enough to make the bumping ships give up, or paying someone to shoot the wreck once he dies (which, btw, works really well, for the cost of a Rifter, some sebos and a few guns, you deny them any profit).

But, insofar as he is caught, and caught good, yes. He got caught by a larger number of players who prepared for the situation better than he did. He shouldn't have the advantage in such a circumstance. Planning, effort and superior numbers should be rewarded. In this case, they are rewarded with a very high chance of a successful gank.



But it doesn't have to be noobships. That doesn't matter at all. They kept on attacking him. His timer kept on refreshing. That's it. Nothing about it is wrong. Pain in the ass, sure, but not overtly wrong.

If you end caught in a fight then I do think that the fight needs to play out within the game rules - not be ended (and DEFINITELY not in a favourable way) by external means such as killing the client. You're kind of muddying the waters by harping on about the duration and by what ships may have been used. What ships they were in when refreshing the timer is irrelevant.

As for the reason it lasted an hour, that is because the freighter kept it going for an hour. He made the decision to spend that amount of time struggling to save his stuff - and that's fine, he's entitled to do that, and in slightly different circumstances his willingness to commit that amount of time very well could have saved him (giving his friends time to get blackbirds, or counter bumping ships, or anything else). If he hadn't been willing to commit that much time, he also could have done a number of other things to end it much earlier, such attempting to convo them and strike a deal, or even self destructing or ejecting.

So no, I do not think he should have a way to kill the client and disappear safely. Not when he found himself in a fight, and when he made the decisions to keep it going on that long, and when the decision to drag it out that long can, in many cases, be the winning move anyway (it just wasnt here because his corp mates are bad).

I honestly, truly can't understand why you think someone should be able to simply opt out of pvp and disconnect to save themselves. I really, really don't get that.