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PVP actually sucks.

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mannimarco22
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-07-07 22:51:44 UTC  |  Edited by: mannimarco22
I have been playing this game for awhile now and from my experience PVP is just ECM (Who the **** thought of such bullshit), Gate camps, And people dropping in on you who are somehow 10x faster than you. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=mannimarco22
There is a link to my killboard. More than half of my 29 kills are solo. More than 3/4 of my deaths are me versus two or more. I have tried all that traversal ****, but what I have found out is that if that person is older than you then most likely if they are not **** fit. They will win. Plain and simple. If you are fighting 1v1 and you both have the same basic fitting, same ammo, but one of you is older by a year or two, then the older one will win. Ya and most of you will say ( Oh well you just suck) Lol, yea ok. I have proven to myself and others that I can handle myself in a fair 1v1, but ECM is probably the saddest thing I have ever heard of. Oh and also, alts are ******. If you cannot play a game with one character than you might as well not play at all. Oh Also lol, this game is TOTALLY pay to win. Pay for two accounts, you get a huge ass advantage over a player with one. You pay for plex, you get shittons of isk.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#2 - 2013-07-07 23:06:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Chessur
mannimarco22 wrote:
I have been playing this game for awhile now and from my experience PVP is just ECM (Who the **** thought of such bullshit), Gate camps, And people dropping in on you who are somehow 10x faster than you. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=mannimarco22
There is a link to my killboard. More than half of my 29 kills are solo. More than 3/4 of my deaths are me versus two or more. I have tried all that traversal ****, but what I have found out is that if that person is older than you then most likely if they are not **** fit. They will win. Plain and simple. If you are fighting 1v1 and you both have the same basic fitting, same ammo, but one of you is older by a year or two, then the older one will win. Ya and most of you will say ( Oh well you just suck) Lol, yea ok. I have proven to myself and others that I can handle myself in a fair 1v1, but ECM is probably the saddest thing I have ever heard of. Oh and also, alts are ******. If you cannot play a game with one character than you might as well not play at all.


Your problem is this-

Placing blame on everyone but yourself.

1. No **** fights are not fair, welcome to eve.

2. Learning to PvP is learning how to PvPPPPPPPP in eve, get used to it.

3. Falcon decloaking on you? That is 100% your fault. you either:

a. Didn't check local
b. Didn't fit EECM
c. Didn't use a weapon system that can still work while jammed
d. Didn't use a proper ship with a proper fitting for PvP
e. Took risk with unknowns in system / or unknowns in the gang you wer fighting

4. Rapier decloaking on you? That is 100% your fault. You either:
a. See above
b. Were not aligned

5. Links getting you down? Check local, use D scan. You should instantly know from ship speed / long point range if someone is linked. If you don't know those numbers by heart- guess what, your fault.

6. You have not tried transveral **** because if you truely understood it, math does not trick you. This leads me to my other part 6, and that is LEARN + READ. You should know off the top of your head, general fits / styles for every ship you see. You should also know the range of EVERY MODULE IN THE GAME with links, with heat, with special ship bonuses, and of course faction items. IE. faction scrams. You should know how to immidately tell the difference between all weapon types from looking at a ship, and you should also be able to tell how it is tanked, just from looking / noticing the speed. My guess is that you can do none of that.

7. Use your resources. Check pilots in local on battle clinic, use the eve map and dotlan to look at hot spots / gate camps. Use kilboards to see who people fly with, what they fly and what they have been killing recently.

8. Take responsibility for losing your ship. It was always 100% your fault.

9. Stop raging, keep calm and get EFT

10. If you are going to quit, can I have your stuff?

At the end of the day you are whining. You hardly have any pvp experience at all. If i were you, I would spend a lot of time learning about ships / fits and playstyles. I notice you fly a lot of ships that brawl. Brawling is a horrible idea in solo / small gang pvp. Kiting is superior, because it allows you to live from blobs, ECM, and of course those glorious recons that are dropped on you. Become a student of the game, and stop assuming that you some how are some PvP god.
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
#3 - 2013-07-07 23:14:47 UTC
Chessur wrote:
2. Learning to PvP is learning how to PvPPPPPPPP in eve, get used to it.


This.

If you're fitting for a 1v1 you may as well just hit the self destruct button.

Get an exit strategy, learn your engagement envelopes, learn to accept the possibility of failure, trim your pubic thatch into interesting topiaries then CHAAAAAARGE!
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#4 - 2013-07-07 23:17:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Chessur
You want to see 'not fair' Go look at my KB for the past two weeks. I have been soling / duo-flying in TEST's staging system in Karan. I have 250+ hostiles in system, linked LG snaked interceptors flying at me, Tier 3 BC's sniping me, the entire time. They have ECM, logistics, and carriers. Yet I can get kills. When I die? I just GF keep calm and carry on. You certainly do see me coming to the forums about it, because I knew where I made my mistake. I knew where I ****** up and let a frig get a scram on me for a second, or that fed webbed linked rapier webbing me from 100K out. If I had played perfectly that wouldn't have happened. So I learn from my mistake, and move on.
George Boothe
Blootered Bastards
#5 - 2013-07-07 23:20:34 UTC
From looking at most of your losses and all of our kills, to me it seems that you generally lack some knowledge on what to engage and what to avoid. At the start you fly a lot of rifters and get killed by a lot of mwd kiting stuff. I know this might just be my imagination, but it looks like you then upgrade to firetails and jaguars thinking that your lack of kills somehow comes from the choice of ship. Truth is, you will not kill a lot of stuff in an afterburner fit if you are being kited no matter if its a rifter or a jaguar.

The problem with upgrading to faction or t2 ships to early (in my opinion at least) is that you still do not have enough pvp experience, but t1 ships stop engaging you for the most part, and the ships that do engage you willingly usually are faction or t2 as well and have more pvp experience. Therefore by upgrading your ship to early you lessen your fun and possibility of fights.

I would suggest starting again, with rifters and slashers, and maybe crosstraining into some other t1 frigs as well as getting your support skills up before trying faction/t2 ships.

To get your general PvP knowledge up and learn what to engage, and how to deal with the different ships you encounter i will leave you with a couple of links to browse through:

Most importantly:
http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html
Eve altruist is a very good pvp blog, and the "know your enemy" series gives a good overview over the different ships and their capabilities.
Read the parts on t1 attack and combat frigs and the ones on t2 and faction frigs for starters. This will give you a general idea of what each of these ships can be doing.

Secondly, as you fly minmatar, ammo choice is very important. Know which ships have what kind of resistances and shoot the correct ammo.
http://fleeonsight.blogspot.nl/2013/05/updated-complete-guide-to-ammunition.html
http://www.evealtruist.com/2012/02/damage-types-in-pvp.html

As you seem to have some kind of problems with fast (mwd) kiters, learn how to slingshot correctly, this is easiest if you fit an mwd yourself, but sometimes the kiter can be caught unaware and you slingshot a slicer with your 1800m/s overheated slasher.
http://eveopportunist.blogspot.nl/p/art-of.html

Next up, if you have the opportunity to look at your enemies guns before the fight, here is a helpful chart (made by Azual Skol from the Eve Altruist blog) where you can check which guns the enemy has fit, which tells you what engagement range they will have.
http://i.imgur.com/Wsf2ban.jpg

In general, try to know at what range your ship can fight effectively and know the ships against which you can control the fight in a way that ensures that you are at your perfect range and not in the enemies comfort zone.

Good luck and keep fighting
mannimarco22
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-07-07 23:29:15 UTC
How am I suppose to fit EECM on a jaguar or any other frigate for that matter that I intend on using in pvp?

" Falcon decloaking on you? That is 100% your fault. you either:" What? "Didn't use a weapon system that can still work while jamme" ECM stops you from targeting. How the **** would I use any weapon besides a smart bomb when I am against ECM

. "d. Didn't use a proper ship with a proper fitting for PvP" Yea my ancillary jaguar is not fit for pvp, nope not at all. Its for mining.

"e. Took risk with unknowns in system / or unknowns in the gang you wer fighting" I am sorry but I did not know I was supposed to ask random people about a random system.

"4. Rapier decloaking on you? That is 100% your fault. You either:" Again, what?

"b. Were not aligned" Actually you are very wrong. My last loss, a cheetah with warp core stabs. I was aligned and this guy came in and took a lot less than a second to target me and scram me. I don't know how he kept me down when I had stabs.

"6. You have not tried transveral **** because if you truely understood it, math does not trick you. This leads me to my other part 6, and that is LEARN + READ. You should know off the top of your head, general fits / styles for every ship you see. You should also know the range of EVERY MODULE IN THE GAME with links, with heat, with special ship bonuses, and of course faction items. IE. faction scrams. You should know how to immidately tell the difference between all weapon types from looking at a ship, and you should also be able to tell how it is tanked, just from looking / noticing the speed. My guess is that you can do none of that."

Are you kidding? Even if my transversal is low and his is high, all he has to do is orbit me. Fights in frigates aren't exactly long. If he orbits me and I miss him even once he can boost his shields and **** me over. Like I said, That trick does not work.

"8. Take responsibility for losing your ship. It was always 100% your fault."

OK So when I get jumped by four or more guys on the other side of a gate that I had just found to be clear. How is that my fault? When they have ECM what am I suppose to do? I don't fly a ******* electronic supperiority ship around everywhere. ECCM is not an option on most frigs while solo.


"At the end of the day you are whining. You hardly have any pvp experience at all. If i were you, I would spend a lot of time learning about ships / fits and playstyles. I notice you fly a lot of ships that brawl. Brawling is a horrible idea in solo / small gang pvp. Kiting is superior, because it allows you to live from blobs, ECM, and of course those glorious recons that are dropped on you. Become a student of the game, and stop assuming that you some how are some PvP god."

LOL Ok so 107 fights plus some is no experience? Lol sorry I don't roam in fleets of dozens of people and rack up 1000's of kills. At the end of the day you still can't give any good reasons why anything I said was wrong. You just sit here and say what I COULD have done IF I had an alt with an electronically superiority vessel. But NOTICE how I was talking about solo.
Voi Lutois
Vonkell
#7 - 2013-07-07 23:33:19 UTC
I agree friend.
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#8 - 2013-07-07 23:44:58 UTC
mannimarco22 wrote:
How am I suppose to fit EECM on a jaguar or any other frigate for that matter that I intend on using in pvp?

" Falcon decloaking on you? That is 100% your fault. you either:" What? "Didn't use a weapon system that can still work while jamme" ECM stops you from targeting. How the **** would I use any weapon besides a smart bomb when I am against ECM

. "d. Didn't use a proper ship with a proper fitting for PvP" Yea my ancillary jaguar is not fit for pvp, nope not at all. Its for mining.

"e. Took risk with unknowns in system / or unknowns in the gang you wer fighting" I am sorry but I did not know I was supposed to ask random people about a random system.

"4. Rapier decloaking on you? That is 100% your fault. You either:" Again, what?

"b. Were not aligned" Actually you are very wrong. My last loss, a cheetah with warp core stabs. I was aligned and this guy came in and took a lot less than a second to target me and scram me. I don't know how he kept me down when I had stabs.

"6. You have not tried transveral **** because if you truely understood it, math does not trick you. This leads me to my other part 6, and that is LEARN + READ. You should know off the top of your head, general fits / styles for every ship you see. You should also know the range of EVERY MODULE IN THE GAME with links, with heat, with special ship bonuses, and of course faction items. IE. faction scrams. You should know how to immidately tell the difference between all weapon types from looking at a ship, and you should also be able to tell how it is tanked, just from looking / noticing the speed. My guess is that you can do none of that."

Are you kidding? Even if my transversal is low and his is high, all he has to do is orbit me. Fights in frigates aren't exactly long. If he orbits me and I miss him even once he can boost his shields and **** me over. Like I said, That trick does not work.

"8. Take responsibility for losing your ship. It was always 100% your fault."

OK So when I get jumped by four or more guys on the other side of a gate that I had just found to be clear. How is that my fault? When they have ECM what am I suppose to do? I don't fly a ******* electronic supperiority ship around everywhere. ECCM is not an option on most frigs while solo.


"At the end of the day you are whining. You hardly have any pvp experience at all. If i were you, I would spend a lot of time learning about ships / fits and playstyles. I notice you fly a lot of ships that brawl. Brawling is a horrible idea in solo / small gang pvp. Kiting is superior, because it allows you to live from blobs, ECM, and of course those glorious recons that are dropped on you. Become a student of the game, and stop assuming that you some how are some PvP god."

LOL Ok so 107 fights plus some is no experience? Lol sorry I don't roam in fleets of dozens of people and rack up 1000's of kills. At the end of the day you still can't give any good reasons why anything I said was wrong. You just sit here and say what I COULD have done IF I had an alt with an electronically superiority vessel. But NOTICE how I was talking about solo.




I could have helped you. I could have pointed out so many obvious things you are doing wrong. But with an attitude like this- you're simply not worth it.

When I tell you that you have no PvP experience, I mean it. Your responses to these questions is glaring proof. I get more kills in half a month than you have in your entire career. You sound like a brat, and I don't do brats.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-07-08 00:47:59 UTC

mannimarco22 wrote:
...Plain and simple. If you are fighting 1v1 and you both have the same basic fitting, same ammo, but one of you is older by a year or two, then the older one will win.....



Chessur - You should know off the top of your head, general fits / styles for every ship you see. You should also know the range of EVERY MODULE IN THE GAME with links, with heat, with special ship bonuses, and of course faction items. IE. faction scrams. You should know how to immidately tell the difference between all weapon types from looking at a ship, and you should also be able to tell how it is tanked, just from looking / noticing the speed. My guess is that you can do none of that.


With Frigates and Skill points you are going to cap out all relevant ones well before you are two years old. So the difference really lies in actual PvP experience and knowledge. This is what Chessur is pointing out.

A newish PvPer is more than likely not going to have this knowledge... and lose a lot because of it.

Acquire that knowledge.
ReZoon
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#10 - 2013-07-08 01:21:48 UTC
George Boothe wrote:
From looking at most of your losses and all of our kills, to me it seems that you generally lack some knowledge on what to engage and what to avoid. At the start you fly a lot of rifters and get killed by a lot of mwd kiting stuff. I know this might just be my imagination, but it looks like you then upgrade to firetails and jaguars thinking that your lack of kills somehow comes from the choice of ship. Truth is, you will not kill a lot of stuff in an afterburner fit if you are being kited no matter if its a rifter or a jaguar.

The problem with upgrading to faction or t2 ships to early (in my opinion at least) is that you still do not have enough pvp experience, but t1 ships stop engaging you for the most part, and the ships that do engage you willingly usually are faction or t2 as well and have more pvp experience. Therefore by upgrading your ship to early you lessen your fun and possibility of fights.

I would suggest starting again, with rifters and slashers, and maybe crosstraining into some other t1 frigs as well as getting your support skills up before trying faction/t2 ships.

To get your general PvP knowledge up and learn what to engage, and how to deal with the different ships you encounter i will leave you with a couple of links to browse through:

Most importantly:
http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html
Eve altruist is a very good pvp blog, and the "know your enemy" series gives a good overview over the different ships and their capabilities.
Read the parts on t1 attack and combat frigs and the ones on t2 and faction frigs for starters. This will give you a general idea of what each of these ships can be doing.

Secondly, as you fly minmatar, ammo choice is very important. Know which ships have what kind of resistances and shoot the correct ammo.
http://fleeonsight.blogspot.nl/2013/05/updated-complete-guide-to-ammunition.html
http://www.evealtruist.com/2012/02/damage-types-in-pvp.html

As you seem to have some kind of problems with fast (mwd) kiters, learn how to slingshot correctly, this is easiest if you fit an mwd yourself, but sometimes the kiter can be caught unaware and you slingshot a slicer with your 1800m/s overheated slasher.
http://eveopportunist.blogspot.nl/p/art-of.html

Next up, if you have the opportunity to look at your enemies guns before the fight, here is a helpful chart (made by Azual Skol from the Eve Altruist blog) where you can check which guns the enemy has fit, which tells you what engagement range they will have.
http://i.imgur.com/Wsf2ban.jpg

In general, try to know at what range your ship can fight effectively and know the ships against which you can control the fight in a way that ensures that you are at your perfect range and not in the enemies comfort zone.

Good luck and keep fighting



Great post Sir, I applaud your effort to help!
Imperishable
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-07-08 03:42:58 UTC
To be fair, EVE PvP does have a couple flaws - things that are left to chance rather than player skill:

*) no way to find out about gate camp on other side without jumping into it.
*) no way to get warning and info about cyno hot drop

Everything else can be solved with player skills
Dan Carter Murray
#12 - 2013-07-08 04:31:21 UTC
Chessur wrote:


3. Falcon decloaking on you? That is 100% your fault. you either:
a. Didn't check local <--- local doesn't tell you who is flying what you ******* idiot
b. Didn't fit EECM <----you don't know how the **** eccm works i guess
c. Didn't use a weapon system that can still work while jammed <--- not everyone flies loki and tengu linked caracals...try not be stupid in the future
d. Didn't use a proper ship with a proper fitting for PvP <----what the **** pvp fit counters falcon + anything? that's right, you're a moron
e. Took risk with unknowns in system / or unknowns in the gang you wer fighting <--- some people take risks Chessur, just because your dumb ass won't doesn't mean others don't


Also, your advice is 100% based on your experience of flying loki/tengu linked caracals amirite? You die like a ***** in those to frigs though when you don't eject immediately after being tackled.

Anyway, to the OP...yes pvp in eve pvp actually does suck 90% of the time. if you can't enjoy the 10% of the time enough to make up for absolute crap that eve pvp is the other 90% of the time then try something else. (do this for 3 months before you go ahead and quit...if 2 out of 3 months is still **** during the 10% of the time when pvp is actually good then just quit honestly...there are plenty of other mmo with pvp that isn't complete ****)

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#13 - 2013-07-08 04:55:52 UTC
This post might seem a bit trollish but unfortunately it is 100% accurate and truthful.



OP - It's normal to lose most fights at 1st. I lost ships consistently for a long time just like many others here did.

I was fkn terrible at pvp until I spent some time flying with a good FC (Super Chair).
From a good fc you can learn how to pick fights, how far to overship, which boosts to use and who's pos locations to give to the Gallente.

Don't get stuck in the whole 'im always solo' chest beating thing.
It's your choice to be 'solo' so don't complain if you get killed by 2 or more people.
Your enemy correctly chose to fly with friends which tbh instantly makes them smarter then every 'solo' pilot in eve.



ECM is the most honorable module in eve and is only used by men.
It says to the enemy - 'your ammo is too welfare for my ship and i would rather it's value on the killmail'

Seriously ECM is awesome and really adds a great dynamic to small gang fights.

Get into a low sec pvp corp and learn from them. I suggest you apply to a corp in ATONEMENT alliance and they will teach you to respect and even maybe one day love ECM ships.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Deych
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-07-08 07:27:42 UTC
mannimarco22 wrote:
what I have found out is that if that person is older than you then most likely if they are not **** fit. They will win. Plain and simple. If you are fighting 1v1 and you both have the same basic fitting, same ammo, but one of you is older by a year or two, then the older one will win.


Wrong.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2013-07-08 08:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
wow.. I've been pvping in low sec for ages now and i can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times i've been falconed there

0.0 on the other hand.. i think i've been falconed every single time i go there :P





But yea basically this does sound like a case of you being terrible at pvp rather than pvp sucking. (also you're sorta right on the two account thing.. but thats because off grid boosters are bullshit and hopefully that will be fixed)

Yes yes most of your 29 kills are solo kills thats glorious, there are pilots who average well over 100 true solo kills a month. The thing with getting blobbed is that if you're in the right ship (like a frigate) A lot of the time its actually your fault for lettting them blob you.

Get into a decent low sec corp and get some helpful tips on pvp. (Bearing in mind that some of the advice you will get will actually be awful.. like if someone suggests you put dual reps on a frigate.. (If someone does you should punch them in the neck)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-07-08 08:48:35 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
A lot of the time its actually your fault for lettting them blob you.


This.

Either you could have seen it coming, or could have done something about it when you did notice.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Roxxo I'doCocaine
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-07-08 08:54:08 UTC
mannimarco22 wrote:
I have been playing this game for awhile now and from my experience PVP is just ECM (Who the **** thought of such bullshit), Gate camps, And people dropping in on you who are somehow 10x faster than you. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=mannimarco22
There is a link to my killboard. More than half of my 29 kills are solo. More than 3/4 of my deaths are me versus two or more. I have tried all that traversal ****, but what I have found out is that if that person is older than you then most likely if they are not **** fit. They will win. Plain and simple. If you are fighting 1v1 and you both have the same basic fitting, same ammo, but one of you is older by a year or two, then the older one will win. Ya and most of you will say ( Oh well you just suck) Lol, yea ok. I have proven to myself and others that I can handle myself in a fair 1v1, but ECM is probably the saddest thing I have ever heard of. Oh and also, alts are ******. If you cannot play a game with one character than you might as well not play at all. Oh Also lol, this game is TOTALLY pay to win. Pay for two accounts, you get a huge ass advantage over a player with one. You pay for plex, you get shittons of isk.


Reported for ranting.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#18 - 2013-07-08 09:40:34 UTC
I love these whining threads, the genuinely helpful responses they get are incredibly enlightening for anyone who IS willing to listen.

I at least found this healpfull, even if the op didn't

olso op should think about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pMkfja12WU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Lyrka Bloodberry
Spybeaver
#19 - 2013-07-08 09:53:44 UTC
Came to read a good post about the drawbacks of PvP in EVE. Read a whinethread about ECM instead.

Spybeaver
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#20 - 2013-07-08 13:57:19 UTC
mannimarco22 wrote:
I have been playing this game for awhile now and from my experience PVP is just ECM (Who the **** thought of such bullshit), Gate camps, And people dropping in on you who are somehow 10x faster than you. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=mannimarco22
There is a link to my killboard. More than half of my 29 kills are solo. More than 3/4 of my deaths are me versus two or more. I have tried all that traversal ****, but what I have found out is that if that person is older than you then most likely if they are not **** fit. They will win. Plain and simple. If you are fighting 1v1 and you both have the same basic fitting, same ammo, but one of you is older by a year or two, then the older one will win. Ya and most of you will say ( Oh well you just suck) Lol, yea ok. I have proven to myself and others that I can handle myself in a fair 1v1, but ECM is probably the saddest thing I have ever heard of. Oh and also, alts are ******. If you cannot play a game with one character than you might as well not play at all. Oh Also lol, this game is TOTALLY pay to win. Pay for two accounts, you get a huge ass advantage over a player with one. You pay for plex, you get shittons of isk.


i dont disagree with most of your points. I'd just like to add most players enjoy ganking other players and you've been on the wrong side of that enjoyment. P much just gank people with others and your enjoyment level may increase v0v

Remember this is an MMO and not an str8 RPG. So solo is not something this game was built around and most players dont do it. Dont expect much from it and dont take losses doing it too seriously.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
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