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At what point is something an Exploit and not game Mechanics ? Bumped for 60 Minutes

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Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#941 - 2013-07-06 19:56:18 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Every other action in game can be done by a solo player except for a freighter incurring an aggression timer (or LE timer for that matter).


carriers don't need cynos to jump anymore?
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#942 - 2013-07-06 19:58:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
No. It's just like very other ship in that regard because none of the mechanics involved are in any way tied to a specific ship class.


Pit a freighter against a freighter and tell me which one dies first.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#943 - 2013-07-06 19:59:57 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:
No. It's just like very other ship in that regard because none of the mechanics involved are in any way tied to a specific ship class.


Pit a freighter against a freighter and tell me which one dies first.


That has literally nothing to do with aggression mechanics.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#944 - 2013-07-06 20:00:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Murk Paradox wrote:
What button do I press on the freighter to do this "fight back" option?
The align button on the selected items panel. The “W” key (or is it S? I don't remember the defaults and I know one of them makes no sense) and clicking something nice in your overview. Double-clicking in space. Rclick→warp to if something happens to be in-line with your vector of travel (fleet mates can be very helpful here). If you're so inclined, the PTT button on vent/TS/mumble/whatever…

Quote:
When I get home I'll try clicking all my modules and see which one allows me to.
You're reading too much into things.

Quote:
It's not reading "too much" into understanding a simple fact that the ship cannot accomplish a certain task. I do not know why you think it can. It cannot.
What certain task are you talking about? I can pretty much guarantee you that it's something you've read into what I said, rather than something I've actually said.

Quote:
Every other action in game can be done by a solo player except for a freighter incurring an aggression weapons timer (or LE timer for that matter).
…fixed. As luck would have it, that's not the timer that matters here — in fact, it's the inability to trigger that particular timer that the pilot dock up if/when he gets away. Also, as Elizabeth Aideron points out, these kinds of sweeping statements have a tendency to be wrong.

Freighters aren't all that special, after all.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#945 - 2013-07-06 20:00:35 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:

link the catalyst fit that can solo a freighter then


Any of them. A freighter can't fight back.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#946 - 2013-07-06 20:01:56 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:

link the catalyst fit that can solo a freighter then

Any of them. A freighter can't fight back.
In that case, it's spectacularly easy to fight back: just leave low/nullsec and trick the catalyst into following you… Twisted
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#947 - 2013-07-06 20:02:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


None of that has anything to do with the freighter. The freighter has none of any of those abilities, nor does it have any drones or anything else those ships have. It's special in this case, as it were.


So because the hull is specialised it should be exempt from some game mechanics?

In that case I want my megathron to be exempt from warp bubbles and bombs because I cannot use them on that hull.



There's a subforum for that. Go post it then.

T3s can also be exempt from warp bubbles, so I guess it's up to you to tackle that beast.


You honestly don't see how stupid and gamebreaking your argument is do you?


You were the one saying you wanted a mega to be immune to warp bubbles. I only told you what subforum you needed to go to.

Apart from that your trolling sucks and your sarcasm means jackshit.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#948 - 2013-07-06 20:02:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Put a civ gun on and find a freighter, make sure safety is set to atleast yellow, and fire.

Don't be mad if you cannot succeed, just rest easy in knowing you are able to try.
That certainly is one way of ensuring that you don't manage to gank him…



But, you can try! And that's the point.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#949 - 2013-07-06 20:04:59 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:


link the catalyst fit that can solo a freighter then


Put a civ gun on and find a freighter, make sure safety is set to atleast yellow, and fire.

Don't be mad if you cannot succeed, just rest easy in knowing you are able to try.


so you don't have one (because it doesn't exist). ganking a freighter is a group activity by definition, its perfectly reasonable to have the freighters defense being calling for help



Any catalyst, put t1 meta1 guns on it. If its' guns do more damage than its tank, it will die.

Enjoy.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#950 - 2013-07-06 20:05:12 UTC
This whole "crap ship ganking expensive stuff" thing is pretty stupid. It would be much better if when people talked **** about "risk v reward" they took both sides of the risk into the equation. Not much risk suiciding a crappy destroyer or two.

Eve is a fundamentally unbalanced game on this level. It's really not the kind of way you'd design it to be if you were starting from scratch. Don't get me started on my other appalling game design choice favourite, the ability to log on an alt and AFK-cloak in a null sec indy system.

Hopefully Braben will get it right with E:D.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#951 - 2013-07-06 20:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Murk Paradox wrote:
But, you can try! And that's the point.

Not with a yellow safety, you can't.

And no, being able to try was not the point — succeeding was the point. Otherwise no, you can't actually suicide gank a freighter… only suicide.

Ok, sure, it may have been the point you were trying to make, but you literally said that “Any ship can suicide gank a freighter. Except another freighter.” This is false. There are plenty of ships that can't suicide gank a freighter.

…in fact, come to think of it, I don't think any single ship can. Even officer-fit Machs and Vindis fall short of the kind of damage output needed.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#952 - 2013-07-06 20:06:33 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Every other action in game can be done by a solo player except for a freighter incurring an aggression timer (or LE timer for that matter).


carriers don't need cynos to jump anymore?


You can fly a carrier solo, or you can drop a cyno solo.

Beyond that it is not a single action.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#953 - 2013-07-06 20:06:44 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:


link the catalyst fit that can solo a freighter then


Put a civ gun on and find a freighter, make sure safety is set to atleast yellow, and fire.

Don't be mad if you cannot succeed, just rest easy in knowing you are able to try.


so you don't have one (because it doesn't exist). ganking a freighter is a group activity by definition, its perfectly reasonable to have the freighters defense being calling for help



Any catalyst, put t1 meta1 guns on it. If its' guns do more damage than its tank, it will die.

Enjoy.


its guns won't do that though. you'll die after taking off a tiny amount of shields, and because this was a solo gank, the freighter will warp off
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#954 - 2013-07-06 20:06:47 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:


You were the one saying you wanted a mega to be immune to warp bubbles. I only told you what subforum you needed to go to.

Apart from that your trolling sucks and your sarcasm means jackshit.


So you agree its a stupid thing asking for a ship to be exempt from game mechanics that impact every ship in the same way then.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#955 - 2013-07-06 20:07:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
But, you can try! And that's the point.

Not with a yellow safety, you can't.

And no, being able to try was not the point — succeeding was the point.
Otherwise no, you can't actually suicide gank a freighter… only suicide.



Yes you can.

You just can't pod the pilot with yellow safety.

And I cannot presume to know the point when the question asked of me was worded so succinctly, I had to reply in kind.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#956 - 2013-07-06 20:09:00 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Every other action in game can be done by a solo player except for a freighter incurring an aggression timer (or LE timer for that matter).


carriers don't need cynos to jump anymore?


You can fly a carrier solo, or you can drop a cyno solo.

Beyond that it is not a single action.


it's impossible to use a non-freighter capital solo effectively. being able to pilot a freighter solo should not be expected either
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#957 - 2013-07-06 20:09:19 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:


link the catalyst fit that can solo a freighter then


Put a civ gun on and find a freighter, make sure safety is set to atleast yellow, and fire.

Don't be mad if you cannot succeed, just rest easy in knowing you are able to try.


so you don't have one (because it doesn't exist). ganking a freighter is a group activity by definition, its perfectly reasonable to have the freighters defense being calling for help



Any catalyst, put t1 meta1 guns on it. If its' guns do more damage than its tank, it will die.

Enjoy.


its guns won't do that though. you'll die after taking off a tiny amount of shields, and because this was a solo gank, the freighter will warp off



The freighter will not kill you. It cannot.

Therefore you would not die.

Look, I can do this all day. If you want to be deliberate and obtuse and simple, you're going to find yourself wasting your time.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#958 - 2013-07-06 20:10:02 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
But, you can try! And that's the point.

Not with a yellow safety, you can't.

And no, being able to try was not the point — succeeding was the point.
Otherwise no, you can't actually suicide gank a freighter… only suicide.



Yes you can.

You just can't pod the pilot with yellow safety.

And I cannot presume to know the point when the question asked of me was worded so succinctly, I had to reply in kind.


only in lowsec
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#959 - 2013-07-06 20:10:09 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
This whole "crap ship ganking expensive stuff" thing is pretty stupid. It would be much better if when people talked **** about "risk v reward" they took both sides of the risk into the equation. Not much risk suiciding a crappy destroyer or two.

Eve is a fundamentally unbalanced game on this level. It's really not the kind of way you'd design it to be if you were starting from scratch. Don't get me started on my other appalling game design choice favourite, the ability to log on an alt and AFK-cloak in a null sec indy system.

Hopefully Braben will get it right with E:D.


No, the idea that a smaller, cheaper ship can actually have an impact against bigger, more expensive ones is exactly what makes EVE balanced. Simply making bigger and more expensive ships be better at everything is horrible design. It inherently makes it unfair to newer players, as the older ones will always be better and you'll never be able to catch up to or best them.

Also, your other complaint - cloakers - is also actually perfectly balanced. There's a billion threads about that, and a gigantic collection thread on Features and Ideas if you want to see why you're wrong on that one.

hope this helps
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#960 - 2013-07-06 20:10:47 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
This whole "crap ship ganking expensive stuff" thing is pretty stupid. It would be much better if when people talked **** about "risk v reward" they took both sides of the risk into the equation. Not much risk suiciding a crappy destroyer or two.

Eve is a fundamentally unbalanced game on this level. It's really not the kind of way you'd design it to be if you were starting from scratch. Don't get me started on my other appalling game design choice favourite, the ability to log on an alt and AFK-cloak in a null sec indy system.

Hopefully Braben will get it right with E:D.


So you think cheap ships should get ripped apart by more expensive ships. Well done, you just turned EVE into yet another MMO where you get max level and all purple gear or you die in a fire.

Go back to STO.