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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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I have another idea

Author
octahexx Charante
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-07-05 22:40:59 UTC
I know i know your gonna reply:" dude thats an old idea its stupid diaf" like you always do but im posting it anyway cuz im awesome.

The battle between CFC and N3 and Test had 4100 players....blobbing isnt going away and you nerfed the DD AOE titan.
The only thing able to whack that manny ship without 7+ hours of tidi.

How about linking a new form of battleships in a form of siege..the more ships the bigger the combined DD AOE effect.
Its preventable yet its anti blob yet pro-blob?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-07-05 22:43:40 UTC
A mechanic to ensure that the only way to beat a blob is to bring a bigger blob is an awful idea.
octahexx Charante
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-07-05 22:46:20 UTC
blobbing is here to stay and it will just get bigger.
This way atleast the staying power would go down..CCP has already admitted that staying power is the problem and reduced the reists bonused hulls.

With this you can atleast both reward teamwork yet swat out large blobs with it..hence reducing staying power and not need to pack in 4000 players into neveredning tidi where people reosrt to "we will bring 200 repping carriers until DT to save the battle".

Is that an eve we want?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2013-07-05 22:58:13 UTC
octahexx Charante wrote:
blobbing is here to stay and it will just get bigger.
This way atleast the staying power would go down..CCP has already admitted that staying power is the problem and reduced the reists bonused hulls.

With this you can atleast both reward teamwork yet swat out large blobs with it..hence reducing staying power and not need to pack in 4000 players into neveredning tidi where people reosrt to "we will bring 200 repping carriers until DT to save the battle".

Is that an eve we want?



No, you just bring 1000 players and FORCE the other side to bring 1500 or not even bother turning up. Is that the EVE we want? One where numbers trump skill in literally every engagement, there is no such thing as fighting outnumbered and fun doesn't even enter into the equation anymore? Z9PP was a great fight until CCP fatfingered the remap button. Having an AOE DD wipe everything off the field wouldn't be fun for anyone.
octahexx Charante
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-07-05 23:05:00 UTC
The system works both ways,and 1000 players doing a DD AOE on 1500 ships wipes out more ships then you brought.
Or simply just old fashion blap ships to decrease their numbers weakening their DD capabiliity.


Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2013-07-05 23:07:14 UTC
octahexx Charante wrote:
The system works both ways,and 1000 players doing a DD AOE on 1500 ships wipes out more ships then you brought.
Or simply just old fashion blap ships to decrease their numbers weakening their DD capabiliity.





The system you're proposing doesn't work.

If the side who gets there first has more ships, the attackers will go home. If the attackers have more ships, the defenders will go home. there will not be a fight.

We'd be back to the old 'Oh, they just logged in supers, everyone go home we're standing down' thing again, and I don't know a single person who didn't hate that.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-07-05 23:10:14 UTC
octahexx Charante wrote:
blobbing is here to stay and it will just get bigger.

"The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty, a fad."
-The president of the Michigan Savings Bank advising Henry Ford's lawyer not to invest in the Ford Motor Co., 1903.

I should buy an Ishtar.

octahexx Charante
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-07-05 23:14:17 UTC
Im not saying regular battleships will be able to do it im saying a new kind,with a form of triage/doomsday module linking them also having a drawback on activation, so you would basicly use them as a titan but a defeatable one not requiring supers to counter.

If blobs keep growing and they keep having staying power means more pilots and ships pile into the system.
This is rewarded behaviour and tidi enables it to keep growing it will not go away it will just increase, you need a massdeath event for that to fissle out.

The other option is keep nerfing stuff into the ground until stuff dies of nothing or add more server blades and more tidi delayign mechanics to enable the futures 8k blob battle that lasts until DT.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-07-05 23:19:33 UTC
octahexx Charante wrote:
Im not saying regular battleships will be able to do it im saying a new kind,with a form of triage/doomsday module linking them also having a drawback on activation, so you would basicly use them as a titan but a defeatable one not requiring supers to counter.

If blobs keep growing and they keep having staying power means more pilots and ships pile into the system.
This is rewarded behaviour and tidi enables it to keep growing it will not go away it will just increase, you need a massdeath event for that to fissle out.

The other option is keep nerfing stuff into the ground until stuff dies of nothing or add more server blades and more tidi delayign mechanics to enable the futures 8k blob battle that lasts until DT.



Yes, and I am saying that if your opponent brings 1000 of them while you only have 500, you might as well stand down because you already lost the fight, regardless of how many guys you have in other ships.

Tell me, have you ever actually fought in a large fleet battle in heavy tidi? Or how about in the old, pre-tidi system?
octahexx Charante
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-07-05 23:20:24 UTC
After thinking about it i dont see how this would be anything different then Stealth bombers..

one or 2 are no threat but ata certain breaking point you can in a restricted way cause a smaller massdeath event yet they are defeatable without using supers.
octahexx Charante
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-07-05 23:22:21 UTC
Yes i have been in a alot of nullsec large scale battles Big smile
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2013-07-05 23:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Danika Princip
octahexx Charante wrote:
After thinking about it i dont see how this would be anything different then Stealth bombers..

one or 2 are no threat but ata certain breaking point you can in a restricted way cause a smaller massdeath event yet they are defeatable without using supers.



Bombers take a lot of skill to use. More than I think eight bombs at once and they just destroy eachother. You can do a nifty trick with four squads of bombers coming in from four different angles, but again, eight bombers to a squad or the bombs will pop eachother. They're also short ranged, can be destroyed, are fired by fragile and easily destroyed ships, have numerous countermeasures, and you can just warp out when you see the bloody things coming.

Have you ever seen massed bombers in use?

Nullsec battles before or after the tidi system came in?
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#13 - 2013-07-06 02:35:56 UTC
octahexx Charante wrote:

The battle between CFC and N3 and Test had 4100 players....blobbing isnt going away and you nerfed the DD AOE titan.
The only thing able to whack that manny ship without 7+ hours of tidi.


Titan's doomsday was just so in the past, was designed with this idea and could wipe whole fleets.
Then they saw it wasn't working as intendeed, was overpowered and not fun so they nerfed it as is now.

Balthazar Lestrane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-07-06 02:58:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthazar Lestrane
Quote:

Bombers take a lot of skill to use. More than I think eight bombs at once and they just destroy eachother. You can do a nifty trick with four squads of bombers coming in from four different angles, but again, eight bombers to a squad or the bombs will pop eachother. They're also short ranged, can be destroyed, are fired by fragile and easily destroyed ships, have numerous countermeasures, and you can just warp out when you see the bloody things coming.

Have you ever seen massed bombers in use?

Nullsec battles before or after the tidi system came in?


Please define "massed bombers", what kind of numbers are you talking about? 100? 250? 500?

http://themittani.com/media/bombing-zero-black-legion-unleashes-doomcats

Though that particularly technique is somewhat shady in terms of being an exploit or not, CCP has known about it for a long time now and done nothing. But it is proof that bombers can be used to cause havok and mayhem or "massdeath".

The only reason any of the battleships survived was due to lack of numbers. Another wave and they'd have all die in glorious fires.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-07-06 09:55:22 UTC
Balthazar Lestrane wrote:
Quote:

Bombers take a lot of skill to use. More than I think eight bombs at once and they just destroy eachother. You can do a nifty trick with four squads of bombers coming in from four different angles, but again, eight bombers to a squad or the bombs will pop eachother. They're also short ranged, can be destroyed, are fired by fragile and easily destroyed ships, have numerous countermeasures, and you can just warp out when you see the bloody things coming.

Have you ever seen massed bombers in use?

Nullsec battles before or after the tidi system came in?


Please define "massed bombers", what kind of numbers are you talking about? 100? 250? 500?

http://themittani.com/media/bombing-zero-black-legion-unleashes-doomcats

Though that particularly technique is somewhat shady in terms of being an exploit or not, CCP has known about it for a long time now and done nothing. But it is proof that bombers can be used to cause havok and mayhem or "massdeath".

The only reason any of the battleships survived was due to lack of numbers. Another wave and they'd have all die in glorious fires.



As I pointed out, bombers have a ton of drawbacks. This guy wants old titan AOE DD back, which I assume means grid wide, not the ~15km or so a bomb does.

As for massed, by that I mean enough to do the kind of damage in that video. Enough to nuke or at least badly damage a BS fleet. That takes a lot of skill and effort, and is still counterable. Having a 'push buttan, enemy fleet all die' does not, is not, and can only be beaten by bringing more of that one specialised ship. Having the only counter to a blob of these things be another, bigger blob of these things is ******* awful design.
Samuel Wess
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-07-06 11:46:00 UTC
Introduce costs to move and operate large fleets. This is the only way to balance blobs, when cost is higher
than the benefits. Example: sov maintenance fees should be really high, but pilots going trough systems
should pay (on gate jump, time spent in system etc...) Moving 1000 pilots trough a gate should cost like
1 billion isk, jumping 40 capitals should cost also . Unused systems will have sov dropped because of
the high maintenance fee and nobody using them.

Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"

Balthazar Lestrane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-07-06 14:48:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Balthazar Lestrane
Quote:


As I pointed out, bombers have a ton of drawbacks. This guy wants old titan AOE DD back, which I assume means grid wide, not the ~15km or so a bomb does.

As for massed, by that I mean enough to do the kind of damage in that video. Enough to nuke or at least badly damage a BS fleet. That takes a lot of skill and effort, and is still counterable. Having a 'push buttan, enemy fleet all die' does not, is not, and can only be beaten by bringing more of that one specialised ship. Having the only counter to a blob of these things be another, bigger blob of these things is ******* awful design.



Every ship in this game has drawbacks, but to be clear I wasn't arguing in favor of the OPs idea, I agree that it's crap design. I just wanted to make sure that he and everyone else in favor realized that there are already plenty of ways to counter big blobs when you're outnumbered. PIZZA has used Talwars to similar effect, fighting outgunned and outnumbered but they come out on top because of the heavy metagaming and strategy they employ. Plus Talwars are ******* boss.

Quote:
ntroduce costs to move and operate large fleets. This is the only way to balance blobs, when cost is higher
than the benefits. Example: sov maintenance fees should be really high, but pilots going trough systems
should pay (on gate jump, time spent in system etc...) Moving 1000 pilots trough a gate should cost like
1 billion isk, jumping 40 capitals should cost also . Unused systems will have sov dropped because of
the high maintenance fee and nobody using them.


So basically you want all PvP to die in null sec? ISK should never ever ever be a condition to PvP or search for content to enjoy this game. NO.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#18 - 2013-07-06 15:01:25 UTC
Samuel Wess wrote:
Introduce costs to move and operate large fleets. This is the only way to balance blobs, when cost is higher
than the benefits. Example: sov maintenance fees should be really high, but pilots going trough systems
should pay (on gate jump, time spent in system etc...) Moving 1000 pilots trough a gate should cost like
1 billion isk, jumping 40 capitals should cost also . Unused systems will have sov dropped because of
the high maintenance fee and nobody using them.



This

Is the reason to add a dislike button.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--