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Petition - Un-nerf the Eos
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Sweet Trader
The Hollow Men
#21 - 2011-11-07 23:54:02 UTC
I doubt anyone could convincingly argue that the EOS is somehow better than other command ships... it isn't... it's utter toilet. That aside, some of you have touched on a parallel argument here about command ships in general and - at the risk of derailing my own thread - I'd like to make a quick observation about this:

We all know that command ships are mostly chucked in a safespot because if they were actually on the field they would just be primaried and slaughtered. In PvP this clearly negates any notion that to have gang links plus a credible shooty vehicle is OP... if you have the balls to take one into a PvP fight you deserve all the bonuses that can be imagined. Meanwhile, in PvE, if the command ship can buff the fleet while also being an effective shooter this might be considered OP...

I wonder if there is a way of encouraging their direct use in PvP without increasing their PvE capability? The whole "chuck them in a SS" thing is failed. Can anyone suggest how to differentiate the bonuses between PvE and PvP? And let's not worry about the blob... any such boat will be instantly creamed by a blob anyway so bonuses are irrelevant... but they are relevant to small/medium sized PvP gangs.
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#22 - 2011-11-08 08:03:03 UTC
Sweet Trader wrote:
Yes, it's 75mb/sec... it slipped my mind because frankly, 75 is the same as 50. Nobody mixes drone sizes. Launching one large and four medium is a waste of time.

I'm not disputing that it works as a safe-spotted command ship...



Nobody mixes drone sizes?? L2Myrmidon

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#23 - 2011-11-08 08:05:11 UTC
Personally i don't mind the eos. dual rep 5 blasters 2xnuets and a mix of 2X Ogre II 2Xhammy 1x hobby.. of course a full flight of Ogre II would be nice.

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Mr LaboratoryRat
Confederation of DuckTape Lovers
#24 - 2011-11-08 09:52:30 UTC
why bother these days with command ships, we have now better bonuss´s giving cloaky T3´s
Mr LaboratoryRat
Confederation of DuckTape Lovers
#25 - 2011-11-08 09:53:35 UTC
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
Personally i don't mind the eos. dual rep 5 blasters 2xnuets and a mix of 2X Ogre II 2Xhammy 1x hobby.. of course a full flight of Ogre II would be nice.


dont forget the 2 capboosters u need and the fact u can acivly pump / neut for less than a minut before u run out of cap boosters
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-11-08 10:14:39 UTC
Cur wrote:

Because people play eve for the pure enjoyment of sitting in a safepos while their friends go out and do the killing, right?
PICCARD! I DEMAND FACEPALM NOW!


Nobodys forcing the command ship to sit at a pos, it just makes sense Big smile

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Milo Caman
Anshar Incorporated
#27 - 2011-11-08 10:20:54 UTC
Infowar links need a boost more than the Eos. People might actually fly the damn thing then.
That and I reckon bringing back it's chinwibble would see it undocked a lot more as well.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2011-11-08 14:38:08 UTC
Eos was nerfed because it was being better at field command role than the astarted.


granted that, while the nerf was needed, they also needed to rethink the info warfare links beforehand, so that the ship wouldn't reach the poor state that it is today.

that and the active tanking bonus coupled with a limited lowslot set.


so no, boost the eos but tanking wise, but dps of the ship shouldn't be boosted.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-11-08 22:19:45 UTC
easy way to boost the eos - instead of the bonus to more drone bay (after all... who really needs that anyways), allow it to fit a covops cloak and use B-Ops jump bridge. Which means that you can either have 5 guns, covops cloak, and ganglink (or neut, I guess) and 5 med drones, and its dps is solidly in the range of a covops fleet. Plus, it means that you can use those nice, helpful info warfare links in a gang that actually uses them, aka, a recon gang. Oh... and boost the damn info links... they aren't really even woth tossing into the last 2 slots of the 8 link claymore...

-Arazel
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-11-08 23:49:32 UTC
Well it is getting a DPS boost, speed boost, agility boost, reload time boost, tracking boost and a reduction in cap to its guns as it stands.

This already on top of the fact that: -

It can omni tank 500DPS while dealing 600DPS, with full tackle and if you fit NOS instead of neuts then cap life is better.

Buffer fit it deals 600DPS while having over 100kEHP and can have two neuts and dual webs plus scram.

It is slow but then it has the drone bay to field three web drones or lots of ECM Drones

In fact the Eos is probably everything Gallente blaster boats should be

  • Utility Highs
  • Strong Active Tank
  • Enough Drone bay for lots of utility drones
  • Four mids allowing Prop mod, full tackle plus cap booster
  • And rarely for a Gallente ship it, does have enough CPU power grid to T2 fit everything using Ion Blasters.

That said information warfare is rubbish so in it’s intended role it is poor and the drone bay bonus always feels disappointing.

225m3 Drone bay is useful so let’s just keep that and instead have something to increase cap or survivability like the Thorax Microwarpdrive cap bonus or the inty sig reduction bonus so we take less damage as we close.

However it is supposed to be fleet command then how about this: -

Command ship bonus
5% bonus to the effectiveness of information Warfare links and 3% bonus to the effectiveness of Armored Warfare links per level.
Cunane Jeran
#31 - 2011-11-09 00:12:10 UTC
I've never really got while Gallente gang links were ewar, but I feel it was a case of being lumped with it after the other 3 had been sorted. I do like the Eos as it stands though, a drone t2 BC just seems like it would be a little on the unbalanced side in PvE.

Information warfare links though, not sure what you could do to fix that issue.
Sweet Trader
The Hollow Men
#32 - 2011-11-09 00:46:19 UTC
All interesting...

My main point was that if the Eos was meant to be the drone option of the two command ships why is it half arsed? The Astarte is the hybrid boat so why was the Eos bandwidth nerfed turning it into a mixed hybrid/drone boat... the tech is there for Gallente to run the drones so why not have no hybrid bonus but allow 5 large drones to give a clear choice between the two command ships?

I'm not arguing for more dps... I'm suggesting there should be logical differentiation.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#33 - 2011-11-09 05:07:13 UTC
Fleet command should not have field command DPS. That is not the role of the class. I think the ship should get a unique bonus. Something in-line with a defensive nature. The ship definitely needs love.
Vampire PeterPan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2011-11-09 11:46:53 UTC
Based on Gallente ships' attribute, it is a kind for melee range1V1. So it is obveriously fallen at this age.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#35 - 2011-11-09 14:56:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cambarus
Make the info link that adds ewar strength also add web strength, suddenly the eos has a use Big smile

EDIT: The ECCM link also needs a huge buff; it should be more or less on par with what fitting an ECCM to your ship gives (much in the same way the armor and shield resist links give you the rough equivalent of an EANM and an invuln respectively)
xenodia
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-11-09 20:55:25 UTC
Sweet Trader wrote:
Given that CCP are looking at the Gallente boats again I would like to propose that they reconsider the incongruous nerf that the Eos was subjected to some years ago.

Gallente currently have a frigate that can control five medium drones and a cruiser that can control five large drones... whereas the Eos, which has a bonus to drone bay size but not bandwidth can carry up to 225m3 of drones but can only use 50m3 at once... what is the point of that? It also has hybrid bonuses when the Astarte is the obvious hybrid platform... making it neither fish, flesh nor foul.

I don't understand why allowing it to use five large drones or sentries was ever considered OP? I'd also like to know whether anyone is actually using this boat any more for anything other than a safespotted info-warfare fleet booster? Obviously if it is used in this fashion the drone bandwidth becomes academic... but wouldn't we like to see this ship actually fighting?

Please sign if you agree... or present a coherent argument if you do not.

Edit: original post is unedited... inaccuracies addressed in subsequent posts.



I miss my pre-nerf eos. Of course I miss the pre-nerf Myrmidon too. As the "drone race" gallente really took it in the poop chute with the drone bandwidth thing a few years back, since most of their ships didnt get a bonus to bandwidth when it was put in game, meaning that their drone boats suddenly became fail boats.
Sweet Trader
The Hollow Men
#37 - 2011-11-10 21:23:17 UTC
While I'm not arguing for more Eos dps... rather that its role as a drone option should not have been watered down... I would make this further observation about 'command' ships in general:

Does anyone else think that fleet bonuses (and I'm not just talking about Warfare Link bonuses) should only be applied to ships that are on the same grid as the fleet commander? After all... what tactical information is the command ship actually giving to the fleet if it cannot even see the enemy, let alone target them?

I think command ship pilots should be made to man-up and actually appear on the battlefield, necessitating that they rightly become a focus for fleet support... that's why they have the tank that they have (which currently often goes unused). Maybe then any debate over their dps would be different. Risk vs. reward. I don't mind flying at the enemy with a huge 'kick me' sign taped to my arse... but throw me a bone here. ;)

To intercept some of the obvious responses to this... those in the blob will hate the notion because any command ship on grid will be primaried and slaughtered irrespective of support. But I would hazard to suggest that the majority of fights are not large blobs... so why slant the game mechanics toward this?

Incidentally, thanks for the mostly reasonable and interesting comments so far.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#38 - 2011-11-10 21:42:16 UTC
Buff ECCM link, buff e-war strength links (making them effect web strength might be a bit OP, but I wouldn't mind), and replace the EWAR range link by something useful, like a drone damage/speed/tracking link (any combination of those three). After that you can see how the Eos is doing.

Currently training Infowar Spec V based on the theory that CCP will get around to buffing these links eventually.
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