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Hybrid buff? What are you all talking about???

Author
Mysa
EVIL PLANKTON
#21 - 2011-09-08 14:14:42 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
You can't really argue with Cambarus there...

Blaster damage needs to be increased or blaster boats need to be faster.


They just needs to be as fast like there once were. reduce mass on gallente crusiers-bs and add some tracking to rails then they are fine.
Before the nano nerf there was a hell alot more gallente hacs out there fighting vagas and huginns.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#22 - 2011-09-08 15:07:39 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
here are the fixes for hybrids:

blasters:

concept shotguns (short range arties...)

1. Increase base damage by 50%
2. Decrease rate of fire by 30%
3. Increase base tracking by 15%
4. Increase falloff by 50%

railguns: Concept long range auto cannons

1. Increase base damage by 15%
2. Increase rate of fire by 15%
3. decrease activation cost by 40%
4. increase falloff by 50%

ammo:

Simular boost that projectile ammo got

concept choice between what damage type you want to do between thermal and Kinetic (i.e. antimater does 80% thermal damage 20% kin damage, uranium does 80% kin damage and 20% thermal damage)

also include a tracking bonus built into the ammo

Caldari boost:
remove the optimal range bonus for hybrid turrets and replace with a rate of fire bonus

gallente boost:
remove the falloff bonus and replace with a mass reduction bonus

change the internal rep bonus to include a bonus incomming remote rep

General fix:
change the speed reduction affect on armor rigs and replace with an agility reduction
change reload time from 10 seconds to 5 seconds

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Othran
Route One
#23 - 2011-09-08 15:09:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Bloody hell, hybrids have been the way they are long enough for you all to cross-train.

I'm doing exactly that - except I'm skilling from projectiles to hybrids as there's bound to be a nerf/buff to one of them. Lasers are fine as they are, as are most missiles.

To be fair it is only certain classes of hybrid which are badly affected. Others are quite decent but still lack "something".

ACs use no cap; lasers have insta-swap ammo; hybrids have.....?

Yeah I know they're supposed to be the ultimate short range damage dealer but that's not true. ACs do a lot more damage on the run-in to the fight etc etc.

So perhaps the best way of "balancing" would be to think what hybrids can do that other guns can't?

We can play stats on EFT all we want and tweak hybrids but still - why would you use them? No cap usage at neut range is a huge advantage, as is instant ammo swap. Missiles always hit.

What's unique about hybrids? Nothing.

Maybe start from there....
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2011-09-08 15:45:44 UTC
Blasters are not as broken as people make out but do need work on them. Rails are something even I don't use.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#25 - 2011-09-08 15:50:33 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Blasters are not as broken as people make out but do need work on them. Rails are something even I don't use.



well with my boost for hybrids tell me you would not fly this:

new eagle: shield hac afterburner setup

caldari cruiser bonus:
5% to rate of fire per level
5% to shield resistance per level

heavy assault ship bonus:
10% to optimal range per level
5% to damage per level


fit:
rigs:
1 shield extender rig
1 em rig

lows:
2 mag stabs II
1 rcu II
1 dcu II

mids:
10mn ab II
1 disrupter II
2 invul II
1 large shield extender II

highs:
5 tech II 250 rails using faction antimater

52k ehp

optimal range: 27km
fall off: 23 km
damage modifier: 8.9682865x
rate of fire: 2.3798895
alpha: 1201
dps: 520
tracking: 0.02875
activation cost: 4.5

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
#26 - 2011-09-08 16:07:09 UTC
Buff my Drake and my missiles! Its horrible @ PvP!

nom nom

Othran
Route One
#27 - 2011-09-08 16:07:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Currently we have :

1) Projectiles, no cap, takes 10 secs to change/reload ammo;

2) Lasers, no ammo, insta-reload - yes I do know about crystals degrading, they're still tiny;

3) Hybrids, takes 10 secs to change/reload ammo.

I think it'd be better if we had :

1) Projectiles, no cap, takes 10 secs to change/reload ammo;

2) Lasers, no ammo, takes 10 secs to change/reload ammo;

3) Hybrids - insta-reload/swap ammo.

Then all the classes have something unique.

Missiles always hit remember Blink

That'd be a simple change and would make a difference.
London
Federal Defense Union
#28 - 2011-09-08 16:09:40 UTC
People have been screaming about how broken Hybrids are for years, years... CCP's slow reaction to balancing issues is my biggest gripe with this game, not the other nonsense people are complaining about.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2011-09-08 16:10:00 UTC
Im mad about nano blaster hyperion and mega to tell the truth. There is just something about them that just makes them so much fun.
Blacksquirrel
Doomheim
#30 - 2011-09-08 17:07:55 UTC
Kinda a quasi problem of ships, ship stats, bonuses. Then the weapons themselves. Said ships also suffer from PG/CPU issues.

Unfortunately the web bonus goes to another race, with faster natural speeds.

So they need to upgrade hybrid platforms...or their bonuses, and tweak the systems themselves as well. Thinking rails should get a bonus to armor, blasters against shields. And the various ammo tweak those bonuses. Reload/swap time should also be decreased. Less cap use could also be an advantage.
Cambarus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-09-08 17:09:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Cambarus
baltec1 wrote:
Im mad about nano blaster hyperion and mega to tell the truth. There is just something about them that just makes them so much fun.

They do perform quite well when accompanied by a gang of 20-30 other people all using ACs Big smile
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2011-09-08 17:20:50 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Im mad about nano blaster hyperion and mega to tell the truth. There is just something about them that just makes them so much fun.

They do perform quite well when accompanied with a gang of 20-30 other people all using ACs Big smile


Been going out in gangs of 5 to 10 in them lately. Bugger all was found to kill. I keep trying to get more FCs to let me bring them but they hold the view a BS cant keep up with BCStraight

However I have corrupted another player who now flys a triple nano megaLol

Grimpak
Manufactorum.
#33 - 2011-09-08 17:50:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
baltec1 wrote:
Im mad about nano blaster hyperion and mega to tell the truth. There is just something about them that just makes them so much fun.

well it is an instance where it works because you eliminate the mobility issue out of the equationBlink

MeBiatch wrote:
stuff



the concept is nice, but don't forget that a 30% nerf on the RoF actually equates to more than 30% damage nerf.


tbh still say that, for blasters, the damage should be increased considerably, a moderate tracking boost, a nerf on range so that they can only operate on the 10km range, revamp of armour rigs and plates and perhaps some fooling around on the ship's mass.
the thing is that while blasters are damage kings, that is on paper really, and they have just a tiny damage advantage over the next best thing, while said best thing can have 3x more range.

for rails it's harder. while less complex in terms of what happens, it's really an issue of "how".
increasing damage is a bleh approach, but rethinking on caldari gunship fittings is the thing that needs to be done the most, specially when you consider the tengu example,. where the powergrid engineering subsystem that supposedly complements the rail sub, actually have much less grid than any other of the subs, totalling a base 555mw grid, while you have subs that have over 800mw base grid (and none of them have hislotsLol). hell now that I think about it, the subs that have hislots have 555 and 600mw gridLol

in hindsight however, one must consider the fact that this mostly applies to the medium and large versions of the guns, since small rails actually operate ok since they can shoot up to the 150km range, and small blaster boats don't have the mobility issues their larger counterparts have.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Tabernack en Chasteaux
Phoibe Enterprises
#34 - 2011-09-08 17:55:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tabernack en Chasteaux
Role bonus for [edit: Gallente] blaster boats: x% reduction in speed penalties for armor plates/rigs?

Just throwing a half-baked idea out there.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#35 - 2011-09-08 18:06:37 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
here are the fixes for hybrids:

blasters:

concept shotguns (short range arties...)

1. Increase base damage by 30%
2. Decrease rate of fire by 30%


1.3 * 0.7 = 0.91

I'm not sure that a 9% DPS nerf is what blasters need. I'd go with

increase base damage by 50%
decrease RoF by 30%

for a net 5% damage increase and 30% cap use reduction.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#36 - 2011-09-08 18:26:00 UTC
yikes...ok going to fix the post then i did the math when i was kinda tipsy...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2011-09-08 18:31:44 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Im mad about nano blaster hyperion and mega to tell the truth. There is just something about them that just makes them so much fun.

well it is an instance where it works because you eliminate the mobility issue out of the equationBlink



Which is why I am giggling at the thought of giving gal hulls more speedTwisted
Cambarus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-09-08 18:50:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Cambarus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Im mad about nano blaster hyperion and mega to tell the truth. There is just something about them that just makes them so much fun.

They do perform quite well when accompanied with a gang of 20-30 other people all using ACs Big smile


Been going out in gangs of 5 to 10 in them lately. Bugger all was found to kill. I keep trying to get more FCs to let me bring them but they hold the view a BS cant keep up with BCStraight

However I have corrupted another player who now flys a triple nano megaLol


5 to 10 man gangs? Is this the same fit you use with no tackle mod? And as far as giving gallente extra speed goes (note that I am very much against this change, as it basically makes gallente the same thing as minmatar, only worse), you are aware that the pest has just under 20% more base speed than the mega yeh? Slightly less DPS(and even that depends on the fit), but better range, more utility,variable damage types, and a better slot layout for what you're trying to do. I'm not actually against the hyp being shield tanked and used in BC gangs, it's not BAD at it by any means (though there are better ships for the job, which is the main problem with blasters as a whole, they're just not best at anything). The mega however is hilarious, a 2 slot tank and no tackle mod? Come on. The pest may be better than the hyp for BC gangs, but at least the hyp can compete. The mega is just being silly Straight
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#39 - 2011-09-08 19:04:48 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
usefull crtique


well ok then...

fixed the post to show an increase of 50% to base damage to off set the for reduction...

though i do agree that some ships could use a pg boost like the eagle and tengu...

but not too much... i would rather see the guns somewhat op with high fittings to offset then have sub par guns with good fittings...


There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2011-09-08 19:09:58 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Cambarus wrote:
The mega is just being silly Straight



I agree, its daft, looks comical on a KM and EFT screams just no.

But my god it is so much fun to fly and at the end of the day, if it works and you're having fun why not?

When I do take it out on "nano hac roams" someone will always pipe up with "erm, why is that mega here?". People will then mutter about it but when they hear its me the FC will just say something along the lines of "No battleships, only baltec is to be in one, he does magic". I then become the fleets flagship and fun is had with much trolling about the guys who are slower than me and everyone compeating over who can out damage the mega. I normaly win if I can lock the targetLol

Also yes shes the same fit.