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Tier 3 Sniper fleets - which one would you field?

Author
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#1 - 2011-11-07 23:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
With the new Tier 3 BCs being glass cannons without much tanking capabilities but large guns and decent speed, I figured that when used in fleets, one of their best uses would be in sniper fleets operating at 100 ± 20 km, fit for DPS and speed and no tanking mods except maybe a DC II.

So I played around with some fittings with the preliminary winter edition EFT and on Sisi (couldn't test Talos and Naga fits myself as I don't have large T2 rails on any of my characters - just blasters).

For now, I'll keep my own conclusions to myself as I want to avoid biasing the discussion in the first post.

So I'm interested in your opinions - which Tier 3 would you use for medium range sniper fleets and why?
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-11-07 23:41:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nimrod Nemesis
Tornado, hands-down.

Because the only other option is the oracle and you're going to want ALPHA when all your ships are make of paper.
Alexandria Aesirial
Fancypants Inc
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2011-11-08 01:04:04 UTC
Tachy fitted oracles with 180kms of effective range.

It's only blobbing when you lose, otherwise it's good fleet comp.

Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#4 - 2011-11-08 01:24:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Griznatch
Alexandria Aesirial wrote:
Tachy fitted oracles with 180kms of effective range.



Which is negated by the fleet warping right on top of you. Sniping past 150km isnt really an option when a decent prober can get a warpin before you can fire a 2nd volley. I think the tornado is going to see heavy use, the others will be more situational where the arty will be more general use.

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.

A'Brantox Foson
A'Brantox Foson Corporation
#5 - 2011-11-08 05:18:46 UTC
Arty Tornado, loaded with anything, will certainly be putting it in your proverbial pipe and smoke it.
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-11-08 05:20:33 UTC
My hound with cargo expanders/cargo rigs and t2 bomb launcher
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-11-08 05:29:58 UTC
Cruise missile Na--

Oh, wait.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2011-11-08 07:39:25 UTC
Not the caldari or gallente ones that for sure.
Nimrod Nemesis
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-11-08 20:58:04 UTC
Roosterton wrote:
Cruise missile Na--

Oh, wait.


Too soon.
Sigras
Conglomo
#10 - 2011-11-08 21:29:37 UTC
the oracle with mega pulse @ 100 has more DPS and more tank than the zealot @ 100 which people use now, this and the tornado are going to be the new king of sniper ships.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-11-08 21:39:16 UTC
im just wonderin...what are HAC's gonna be used for now?

the ONLY role i can think of now is probably medium range AB amour HAC gangs with logi support. there is literally nothing else for these guys to do. going up against a bunch of Tier 3 BC's at 100km is suicide.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-11-08 22:05:15 UTC
I think it is closer than people think and I think I may choose the Talos.

600dps at 100km with 19k EHP

or perhaps

500dps at 100km with 27k EHP
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#13 - 2011-11-08 22:45:20 UTC
Nimrod Nemesis wrote:
Tornado, hands-down.

Because the only other option is the oracle and you're going to want ALPHA when all your ships are make of paper.



Agreed on the alpha.

However, I'd disagree on the oracle being the only other option. At first I was pleasantly surprised to see that an oracle can be fitted with T2 tachs without using ancillary current routers, as opposed to the T2 1400 Tornado.

However, even with that tradeoff, the Tornado still outdamages a comparably fit oracle despite firing in falloff at the specified range, has a vastly larger damage potential at closer ranges, less cap issues, free choice of damage types and 3.5 times the alpha.

To my surprise, with rail changes, the Talos and Naga are on par with the Oracle, however.
Using extreme glass cannon fits with four tracking comps and three mag field stabs, the Naga outperforms both the Talos and Oracle (if they use full damage/range fits), but of couse is no match for the tornado in all regards mentioned above.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Flattomz
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-11-08 22:56:47 UTC
It was obvious, knowing how minmatar ships work, that when they announced the tier 3 bc :
- the sniper ship will be the tornado, thanks to its alpha
- the squirmish~gangwarfare ship will be the tornado thanks to its speed (try to fit one on SiSi with a mwd, you'll be surprised)
- all the not-so-important-roles-that-are-very-situational will be filled by the others tier 3 bc, each fighting for their share of the loot

Fortunately, the tornado is quite a beautiful toy. I will enjoy it, even if I prefer the look of the manly oracle.
Conor Todaki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-11-08 23:24:51 UTC
Talos. Hands down. I got the winter preview of EFT and holy moley 425mm Rails do some great damage application, seeing as though they work off of optimal AND falloff anything within optimal gets pulverised, especailly with the hybrid buff.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#16 - 2011-11-08 23:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Flattomz wrote:
It was obvious, knowing how minmatar ships work, that when they announced the tier 3 bc :
- the sniper ship will be the tornado, thanks to its alpha
- the squirmish~gangwarfare ship will be the tornado thanks to its speed (try to fit one on SiSi with a mwd, you'll be surprised)
- all the not-so-important-roles-that-are-very-situational will be filled by the others tier 3 bc, each fighting for their share of the loot

Fortunately, the tornado is quite a beautiful toy. I will enjoy it, even if I prefer the look of the manly oracle.



Yeah - the Tornado is nice - other than snipers, I enjoyed toying around with an 100mn AB fit with the new Hail.

Having that said, I was hoping the new Tier 3 BCs being a subcap category in which Minmatar don't dominate for once.

To clarify what I mean - here's a DPS graph for comparable fit tier 3 BCs shooting at a stationary Talos (all largest tier long range weapons, DCII, 3 damage mods each (two on the Naga), 10mn MWD, Sensor booster 2 with range script, TCs and weapon rigs as they fit).


First one who guesses the Tornados colour right gets a hug :).
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2011-11-08 23:47:27 UTC
Curious: what does the tracking look like on the new BCs sniper fits? Wonder how applied dps will compare to HACs using medium weapons.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?

Cunane Jeran
#18 - 2011-11-08 23:55:02 UTC
I don't think the Talos should be written off, it may not have the alpha but its dps is not bad at all, and at extreme ranges, Hybrids really do shine, paired with the fitting reduction and extra rail dps, I believe it will make a well rounded sniper.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#19 - 2011-11-08 23:56:28 UTC
Desudes wrote:
Curious: what does the tracking look like on the new BCs sniper fits? Wonder how applied dps will compare to HACs using medium weapons.



I didn't test it, but they may not be so badly balanced vs HACs. might play around a little later.

Concerning applied DPS: I was trying to keep it simple - admittedly, as soon as transversal is added to the equation, Arties fall back due to their bad tracking (leaving them with all the other advantages mentioned above), but as that's heavily dependent on the target, I left it out.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#20 - 2011-11-09 00:01:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Cunane Jeran wrote:
I don't think the Talos should be written off, it may not have the alpha but its dps is not bad at all, and at extreme ranges, Hybrids really do shine, paired with the fitting reduction and extra rail dps, I believe it will make a well rounded sniper.



As I mentioned above, they're not bad - probably doing better at extreme ranges. The reasoning why I was going for the 100 ± 20 scenario was to stay below on-grid warp range (i.e. with 120 km max range, the prober has to position himself 30 km behind the gang to provide a warp-in, which is still outside unbonused overheated WDII range, giving the gang the opprtunity to bounce to the next spot when aligned).
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
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