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What do we want from the Tech 3 rebalance?

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Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#121 - 2013-07-04 18:08:02 UTC
Onomerous wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Ellendras Silver wrote:

being able to refit a ship in space would be highly overpowered if it could manage that out of thin air, its also very unrealistic. in my imagine a fitting service is NOT so small it fits in a cruiser. so unrealistic and overpowered. let me guess you also want a cargo bay of 5000 m3 so you can carry everything you can ever need on your T3


Yeah You obviously ignored the part were i said "certain numbers of configurations stored in the ship" and "to be activated like some kind of module, module timer etc. included".


they should be able to refit sub systems on POS or capital fitting service which they cant do now. but it should stop there

They can already refit at a pos, the single use T3 has come from the unbearable logistics of trying to fill a generalized role without being able to have multiple options with you.


NO. You should not have to carry all the stuff you might need in your hold. That's my entire point. The loss of the ship goes up because of it. Fit in space is not a good idea. The people who want this are the solo PVE peeps. It is and shall remain a terrible idea and you should feel terrible.


indeed you could carry a scan fit and a DPS fit and scan p00f transform and pew pew no its like i stated before its overpowered and unrrealistic

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2013-07-04 18:17:47 UTC
Onomerous wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Ellendras Silver wrote:

being able to refit a ship in space would be highly overpowered if it could manage that out of thin air, its also very unrealistic. in my imagine a fitting service is NOT so small it fits in a cruiser. so unrealistic and overpowered. let me guess you also want a cargo bay of 5000 m3 so you can carry everything you can ever need on your T3


Yeah You obviously ignored the part were i said "certain numbers of configurations stored in the ship" and "to be activated like some kind of module, module timer etc. included".


they should be able to refit sub systems on POS or capital fitting service which they cant do now. but it should stop there

They can already refit at a pos, the single use T3 has come from the unbearable logistics of trying to fill a generalized role without being able to have multiple options with you.


NO. You should not have to carry all the stuff you might need in your hold. That's my entire point. The loss of the ship goes up because of it. Fit in space is not a good idea. The people who want this are the solo PVE peeps. It is and shall remain a terrible idea and you should feel terrible.

And when T3s are given there nerf to where they are supposed to be then what? You have an overpriced novelity ship than will be outperformed by T2 (as they should be) and more expensive than a pirate faction ship but with the role quality of a navy ship.
Without a gimmic of there own they will collect dust like many ships have in the past.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#123 - 2013-07-04 18:23:02 UTC
That's my whole frigging point!!! It is overpriced and to boot I have to carry more expensive loot in it to even give it a chance to be worth flying. Guess what that does? Makes my overpriced, under-performing ship even more expensive when I lose it. That's great trade off to me!!!
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2013-07-04 18:27:01 UTC
Onomerous wrote:
That's my whole frigging point!!! It is overpriced and to boot I have to carry more expensive loot in it to even give it a chance to be worth flying. Guess what that does? Makes my overpriced, under-performing ship even more expensive when I lose it. That's great trade off to me!!!

Greater risk greater reward, if you bring the stuff to refit to do higher complexes you risk losing more but your potential for greater reward is higher, if they could be allowed to refit and re sub in space.

As it stands now they will be put in the area I stated before but without the ability to refit.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#125 - 2013-07-04 20:02:37 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

And when T3s are given there nerf to where they are supposed to be then what? You have an overpriced novelity ship than will be outperformed by T2 (as they should be) and more expensive than a pirate faction ship but with the role quality of a navy ship.
Without a gimmic of there own they will collect dust like many ships have in the past.


I think you're not factoring in the re-balance will also affect price .. i can't imagine they will expect you to pay 500 mil for T3 cruiser when it will only perform at 80% of a T2 cruiser... so maybe 80% of the price so 120mil ish...

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#126 - 2013-07-04 20:10:04 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
nd when T3s are given there nerf to where they are supposed to be then what? You have an overpriced novelity ship than will be outperformed by T2 (as they should be) and more expensive than a pirate faction ship but with the role quality of a navy ship.
Without a gimmic of there own they will collect dust like many ships have in the past.


no you have a ship that performs a lot of tasks good just no i win button so a specialized ship does the job little bit better so its still usefull! the prices will drop a bit and its fixed. you act like a ship that can fullfill a ton of diffrent roles almost as good as the specialized ship isnt good Ugh

i do wanna add that they need to fix the fitting service so T3 can switch subs in POS and or capital fitting service. also the SP loss penelty should dissapear

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2013-07-04 20:11:37 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

And when T3s are given there nerf to where they are supposed to be then what? You have an overpriced novelity ship than will be outperformed by T2 (as they should be) and more expensive than a pirate faction ship but with the role quality of a navy ship.
Without a gimmic of there own they will collect dust like many ships have in the past.


I think you're not factoring in the re-balance will also affect price .. i can't imagine they will expect you to pay 500 mil for T3 cruiser when it will only perform at 80% of a T2 cruiser... so maybe 80% of the price so 120mil ish...


They won't perform 80% of one ship they perform 80% of 4 ships.
So 120mill 4 ships = 480mill * 80% = 384mill

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#128 - 2013-07-04 20:11:47 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Onomerous wrote:
That's my whole frigging point!!! It is overpriced and to boot I have to carry more expensive loot in it to even give it a chance to be worth flying. Guess what that does? Makes my overpriced, under-performing ship even more expensive when I lose it. That's great trade off to me!!!

Greater risk greater reward, if you bring the stuff to refit to do higher complexes you risk losing more but your potential for greater reward is higher, if they could be allowed to refit and re sub in space.

As it stands now they will be put in the area I stated before but without the ability to refit.


you can for sure forget the refit in space without a capital`s fitting service. CCP isnt that ret*rded

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#129 - 2013-07-04 20:12:43 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

And when T3s are given there nerf to where they are supposed to be then what? You have an overpriced novelity ship than will be outperformed by T2 (as they should be) and more expensive than a pirate faction ship but with the role quality of a navy ship.
Without a gimmic of there own they will collect dust like many ships have in the past.


I think you're not factoring in the re-balance will also affect price .. i can't imagine they will expect you to pay 500 mil for T3 cruiser when it will only perform at 80% of a T2 cruiser... so maybe 80% of the price so 120mil ish...


They won't perform 80% of one ship they perform 80% of 4 ships.
So 120mill 4 ships = 480mill * 80% = 384mill



i think it will be close to 90% that is not bad and they can fullfill more then 4 roles

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#130 - 2013-07-04 20:15:23 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

And when T3s are given there nerf to where they are supposed to be then what? You have an overpriced novelity ship than will be outperformed by T2 (as they should be) and more expensive than a pirate faction ship but with the role quality of a navy ship.
Without a gimmic of there own they will collect dust like many ships have in the past.


I think you're not factoring in the re-balance will also affect price .. i can't imagine they will expect you to pay 500 mil for T3 cruiser when it will only perform at 80% of a T2 cruiser... so maybe 80% of the price so 120mil ish...


They won't perform 80% of one ship they perform 80% of 4 ships.
So 120mill 4 ships = 480mill * 80% = 384mill


interesting way too look at it although i can't imagine how with 15-16 slots it could perform 4 roles at the same time
logi and e-war and links perhaps at a stretch ..

more likely 2 roles so 200 mil ish

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#131 - 2013-07-04 20:17:24 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

And when T3s are given there nerf to where they are supposed to be then what? You have an overpriced novelity ship than will be outperformed by T2 (as they should be) and more expensive than a pirate faction ship but with the role quality of a navy ship.
Without a gimmic of there own they will collect dust like many ships have in the past.


I think you're not factoring in the re-balance will also affect price .. i can't imagine they will expect you to pay 500 mil for T3 cruiser when it will only perform at 80% of a T2 cruiser... so maybe 80% of the price so 120mil ish...


They won't perform 80% of one ship they perform 80% of 4 ships.
So 120mill 4 ships = 480mill * 80% = 384mill



i think it will be close to 90% that is not bad and they can fullfill more then 4 roles


90% is way too high and no way it could do more than 4 roles properly

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#132 - 2013-07-04 20:41:32 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

And when T3s are given there nerf to where they are supposed to be then what? You have an overpriced novelity ship than will be outperformed by T2 (as they should be) and more expensive than a pirate faction ship but with the role quality of a navy ship.
Without a gimmic of there own they will collect dust like many ships have in the past.


I think you're not factoring in the re-balance will also affect price .. i can't imagine they will expect you to pay 500 mil for T3 cruiser when it will only perform at 80% of a T2 cruiser... so maybe 80% of the price so 120mil ish...


They won't perform 80% of one ship they perform 80% of 4 ships.
So 120mill 4 ships = 480mill * 80% = 384mill



i think it will be close to 90% that is not bad and they can fullfill more then 4 roles


90% is way too high and no way it could do more than 4 roles properly


not at once but they are highly adaptive so much options that is a big advantage they can be

black ops fleets
they can do EWAR
recon
ahac
commandship
covert ops

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#133 - 2013-07-04 21:58:11 UTC
Quote:
not at once but they are highly adaptive so much options that is a big advantage they can be

black ops fleets
they can do EWAR
recon
ahac
commandship
covert ops


So T3 ships are flexible? I thought T3 ships were supposed to be flexible but they aren't currently? You mean one hull can be fit out several different, viable ways? Well now I am confused... all the 'nerf T3' ships comments because the big draw of T3 ships is supposed to be they are flexible. Either they are flexible or they aren't. Which is it? ;)
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#134 - 2013-07-04 22:47:02 UTC
Onomerous wrote:
Quote:
not at once but they are highly adaptive so much options that is a big advantage they can be

black ops fleets
they can do EWAR
recon
ahac
commandship
covert ops


So T3 ships are flexible? I thought T3 ships were supposed to be flexible but they aren't currently? You mean one hull can be fit out several different, viable ways? Well now I am confused... all the 'nerf T3' ships comments because the big draw of T3 ships is supposed to be they are flexible. Either they are flexible or they aren't. Which is it? ;)


they are very flexible and that should remain, its just that specialized ships should perform the role a little bit better thats all

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#135 - 2013-07-05 01:30:54 UTC
Ok, that's what I needed to know (please note: I'm being sarcastic at others). Seems there are quite a few people out there in many different threads who don't seem to understand this. Yes, T3 need to be balanced (after T2). NO WE DON'T NEED FIT IN SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#136 - 2013-07-08 11:21:01 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

And when T3s are given there nerf to where they are supposed to be then what? You have an overpriced novelity ship than will be outperformed by T2 (as they should be) and more expensive than a pirate faction ship but with the role quality of a navy ship.
Without a gimmic of there own they will collect dust like many ships have in the past.


I think you're not factoring in the re-balance will also affect price .. i can't imagine they will expect you to pay 500 mil for T3 cruiser when it will only perform at 80% of a T2 cruiser... so maybe 80% of the price so 120mil ish...



Eh, as long as someone pays that price, "they" will charge that price.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#137 - 2013-07-08 12:00:19 UTC
Ruze wrote:
Versatility, not simply in changing out subsystems, but in battlefield roles.


I believe that is what CCP intends to do.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#138 - 2013-07-08 14:29:32 UTC
Id like the mystical 5th sub-systems to make an appearance from when T3's were first announced.
They never did materialise :(
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#139 - 2013-07-08 14:53:15 UTC
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
Ruze wrote:
Versatility, not simply in changing out subsystems, but in battlefield roles.


I believe that is what CCP intends to do.


T3 ships aren't versatile? I'll make sure to let our guys know. They will be disappointed since they have several fits for each T3 hull. Hope they don't shoot the messenger!! ;)
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#140 - 2013-07-09 09:44:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Millith
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
nd when T3s are given there nerf to where they are supposed to be then what? You have an overpriced novelity ship than will be outperformed by T2 (as they should be) and more expensive than a pirate faction ship but with the role quality of a navy ship.
Without a gimmic of there own they will collect dust like many ships have in the past.


no you have a ship that performs a lot of tasks good just no i win button so a specialized ship does the job little bit better so its still usefull! the prices will drop a bit and its fixed. you act like a ship that can fullfill a ton of diffrent roles almost as good as the specialized ship isnt good Ugh


Versatility doesn't make a ship good.

If another ship will do it better, than why the heck would anyone put money down on the lesser ship?

"Hmm, I can purchase a 200+ million isk slightly beefed up Vexor... or a 120 mil Ishtar."

Not to mention the horrifically devaluing that would do to wormhole space. Because there's no point in keeping them around if a cheaper cruiser will do their jobs better, so price goes down from 500 mil to 150-180 mil. Suddenly, C3s are less valueble than nullsec space. Sounds like a swell idea.



Right now, the whole shtick of the T3 is Battleship like power cruiser for a lot of isk and skill training loss on death.

Nerfing them, they would be decent at a lot of things, but other ships do it better, so buy something else.