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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Jita Alt666
#881 - 2011-11-08 19:31:31 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:
CCP can reallocate resources to FiS or WiS.

Player discontent soared after release of Incarcass and The Store from Hell. Incarcass was Fail; Store was Fail; created tipping point for FiS-related discontent to boil over.

Forums full of reactions, feedback, and commentaries triggered by reallocation of resources to FiS. Player reaction suggests that CCP's decision is the correct one.

Defer WiS.
For the moment, correct method for leaving CQ is thru the hangar.
Winter is Coming.


I don't honestly remember that many complaints with the release of CQ in and of itself. There were a few, but it wasn't the majority. iirc:

There were alot of complaints of it not being optional.
There were alot of complaints that it wasn't optimized.
There were more than a few complaints about the NEX.
And there are quite a few complaints about the door.

All of these are valid points. But they're solved with more development of Incarna, not less. The return of ship spinning was a station feature development, after all, not a FiS development. Optimization will only come with further development. The NEX promised to release cheaper items in the future... which can only occur with further development. And the door is only going to open with further development.

FiS is important. I don't see why CCP is doing this whole "Focus" thing at all. Changing team members around just makes everyone confused. As a programmer myself, I'd hate to change software projects; I'd just be completely lost and probably mess something up. That would suck for everyone. They just need to actually finish things one thing at a time.

The biggest problem I see here is CCP's inability to actually finish things and keep promises. The FiS changes are nice, and they certainly didn't have enough people working on it. But drastically downsizing the WoD/WiS/Incarna/Nex teams isn't the solution.



The Incarna engine was a trial for the development of World of Darkness. Developing this engine took resources away from Flying in Space for over 18 months(sic). This long period of stalled development caused a large amount of discontent amongst Eve Players who subbed to play spaceships.

The release of Incarna was sub standard - 1 out of 4 CQ's completed, that coupled with the poor optimisation, the NEX store pricing, the leaked newsletter indicating micro-transactions for in game advantage via aura was being discussed at CCP head quarters, and the misreading of the situation by the CCP CEO who dismissed player discontent as being the usual rabble rabble, caused a significant number of players to un-subscribe.

At the time CCP were working on WOD, Eve Online and Dust. Their incoming revenue came from Eve Online. That is 3 major projects with only 1 providing immediate returns. The number of de-subscriptions was enough to affect the long term bottom line and put at risk all 3 projects.

Any company in that position needs to work to ensure continued supply of income. CCP have made the decision to halt development of WOD and refocus on the flying in space aspects of Eve Online. To put that another way, they are working to keep their established player base happy (and hopefully reverse the unsub flurry) ahead of expanding the game in a direction that has an unknown outcome. The additional advantage of this approach is the company can trim the WOD development staff out, thus reducing costs at the same time.

Now CCP are making 2 projects (DUST, Eve Online) on the revenue stream provided by 1 (Eve Online). With WOD put on hold the Incarna engine is also on hold. This is not an ideal solution by any means - it is a pragmatic business decision.

The long term development of WIS will add to the playability, immersion and appeal of Eve Online. CCP have attempted to do this at the expense of the flying in space portion of Eve Online. That has proved to be unsustainable.

As a supporter of WIS I am hoping that CCP can get DUST out to the market by summer 2012. I am hoping that DUST is a success in its own right. I am also hoping it's interaction with Eve Online is compelling and adds to both games. I am hoping that development will enable the increase of revenue that will enable CCP to reactivate development on WOD/WIS
WisdomLikeSilence
BurgerkingTM
#882 - 2011-11-08 19:40:39 UTC
Still LOL'ing at all the people who think a sandbox MMO is "ABOUT" something.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#883 - 2011-11-08 19:43:34 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
I don't see why CCP is doing this whole "Focus" thing at all. Changing team members around just makes everyone confused. As a programmer myself, I'd hate to change software projects; I'd just be completely lost and probably mess something up. That would suck for everyone.

Yeah a much better plan is to stick with something that's not working and causing the game to bleed subscriptions so that the poor programmers don't get confused. Roll

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Stahlregen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#884 - 2011-11-08 19:47:12 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
I don't see why CCP is doing this whole "Focus" thing at all. Changing team members around just makes everyone confused. As a programmer myself, I'd hate to change software projects; I'd just be completely lost and probably mess something up. That would suck for everyone.

Yeah a much better plan is to stick with something that's not working and causing the game to bleed subscriptions so that the poor programmers don't get confused. Roll


Ladie Harlot have I ever mentioned how true to life your avatar is? Because it's quite uncanny.

EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT. IT'S CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK AND RIGHT THEN AND THERE I START DOING THE MOVES ALONGSIDE THE MAIN CHARACTER, RIDDICK. I DO EVERY MOVE AND I DO EVERY MOVE HARD. MAKIN' WHOOSHING SOUNDS WHEN I SLAM DOWN SOME NECRO BASTARDS. NOT MANY CAN SAY THEY ESCAPED THE GALAXY'S MOST DANGEROUS PRISON. I CAN.
Jita Alt666
#885 - 2011-11-08 19:49:20 UTC
Stahlregen wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
I don't see why CCP is doing this whole "Focus" thing at all. Changing team members around just makes everyone confused. As a programmer myself, I'd hate to change software projects; I'd just be completely lost and probably mess something up. That would suck for everyone.

Yeah a much better plan is to stick with something that's not working and causing the game to bleed subscriptions so that the poor programmers don't get confused. Roll


Ladie Harlot have I ever mentioned how true to life your avatar is? Because it's quite uncanny.


Did you get lured back to Eve Online via a banner ad on SA?
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#886 - 2011-11-08 19:50:31 UTC
Stahlregen wrote:
Ladie Harlot have I ever mentioned how true to life your avatar is? Because it's quite uncanny.

It literally took me four hours to get the avatar just right.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#887 - 2011-11-08 19:55:02 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
Ladie Harlot have I ever mentioned how true to life your avatar is? Because it's quite uncanny.

It literally took me four hours to get the avatar just right.


What a odd waste of time for a person that hates "space barbies". If your avatar doesn't matter why didn't you just make a random character and get out into those spaceships that Eve is only about?

Your strange creepy face mocks your own argument everytime you post that avatars don't matter to you.

Issler
Jita Alt666
#888 - 2011-11-08 19:57:29 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
Ladie Harlot have I ever mentioned how true to life your avatar is? Because it's quite uncanny.

It literally took me four hours to get the avatar just right.


What a odd waste of time for a person that hates "space barbies". If your avatar doesn't matter why didn't you just make a random character and get out into those spaceships that Eve is only about?

Your strange creepy face mocks your own argument everytime you post that avatars don't matter to you.

Issler


Please tell me you read my :words: post at the top of this page before you decided to go for an easy shot at a troll who has again succeeded in baiting you with a single sentence.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#889 - 2011-11-08 19:58:08 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
Ladie Harlot have I ever mentioned how true to life your avatar is? Because it's quite uncanny.

It literally took me four hours to get the avatar just right.


What a odd waste of time for a person that hates "space barbies". If your avatar doesn't matter why didn't you just make a random character and get out into those spaceships that Eve is only about?

Your strange creepy face mocks your own argument everytime you post that avatars don't matter to you.

Issler

Forum avatars are serious business. Playing dressup in the microtransaction superstore isn't.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Lilliana Stelles
#890 - 2011-11-08 20:11:53 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
The Incarna engine was a trial for the development of World of Darkness. Developing this engine took resources away from Flying in Space for over 18 months(sic). This long period of stalled development caused a large amount of discontent amongst Eve Players who subbed to play spaceships.

The release of Incarna was sub standard - 1 out of 4 CQ's completed, that coupled with the poor optimisation, the NEX store pricing, the leaked newsletter indicating micro-transactions for in game advantage via aura was being discussed at CCP head quarters, and the misreading of the situation by the CCP CEO who dismissed player discontent as being the usual rabble rabble, caused a significant number of players to un-subscribe.

At the time CCP were working on WOD, Eve Online and Dust. Their incoming revenue came from Eve Online. That is 3 major projects with only 1 providing immediate returns. The number of de-subscriptions was enough to affect the long term bottom line and put at risk all 3 projects.

Any company in that position needs to work to ensure continued supply of income. CCP have made the decision to halt development of WOD and refocus on the flying in space aspects of Eve Online. To put that another way, they are working to keep their established player base happy (and hopefully reverse the unsub flurry) ahead of expanding the game in a direction that has an unknown outcome. The additional advantage of this approach is the company can trim the WOD development staff out, thus reducing costs at the same time.

Now CCP are making 2 projects (DUST, Eve Online) on the revenue stream provided by 1 (Eve Online). With WOD put on hold the Incarna engine is also on hold. This is not an ideal solution by any means - it is a pragmatic business decision.

The long term development of WIS will add to the playability, immersion and appeal of Eve Online. CCP have attempted to do this at the expense of the flying in space portion of Eve Online. That has proved to be unsustainable.

As a supporter of WIS I am hoping that CCP can get DUST out to the market by summer 2012. I am hoping that DUST is a success in its own right. I am also hoping it's interaction with Eve Online is compelling and adds to both games. I am hoping that development will enable the increase of revenue that will enable CCP to reactivate development on WOD/WIS


That makes sense, though it's a bit of a disappointment to those of us looking forward to WiS. It's very difficult to tell exactly what happened/is happening without knowing CCP's budget, which really isn't our business. Though I will say that you phrased that much better than CCP did, and I'll assume it to be correct.

Not a forum alt. 
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#891 - 2011-11-08 20:50:59 UTC
Incarna was never a prototype for WoD. If yo really think that, get your facts straight.

Wod was the prototype for incarna. Remember most of us PLAYED Walking in stations at fanfest 4 years ago before WoD even had a single dev.

so suck it.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#892 - 2011-11-08 20:56:15 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Incarna was never a prototype for WoD. If yo really think that, get your facts straight.

Wod was the prototype for incarna. Remember most of us PLAYED Walking in stations at fanfest 4 years ago before WoD even had a single dev.

so suck it.

lol you think the engine you saw at fanfest years ago was the same one in the game now.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Jita Alt666
#893 - 2011-11-08 21:36:52 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Incarna was never a prototype for WoD. If yo really think that, get your facts straight.

Wod was the prototype for incarna. Remember most of us PLAYED Walking in stations at fanfest 4 years ago before WoD even had a single dev.

so suck it.

lol you think the engine you saw at fanfest years ago was the same one in the game now.


QFT.

When CCP bought out White Wolf they threw all the old (2007-08) WIS iterations out the window and started afresh with whitee wolf's stuff.

so suck it.
Jita Alt666
#894 - 2011-11-08 21:48:24 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:

That makes sense, though it's a bit of a disappointment to those of us looking forward to WiS. It's very difficult to tell exactly what happened/is happening without knowing CCP's budget, which really isn't our business. Though I will say that you phrased that much better than CCP did, and I'll assume it to be correct.


I agree it is disappointing. It is a case of company management having ambitions bigger than the ability of the company to deliver. If the original conceptual elements of WIS had been pursued in 2008-09, and whitewolf had been left alone, Eve Online could have been a fully immersive sci-fi simulator by June 2011.

For those who want to look, there is a large amount of information about company status/accounts, business prospectus and shareholder material for most companies on the interwebz.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#895 - 2011-11-08 22:11:39 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
Ladie Harlot have I ever mentioned how true to life your avatar is? Because it's quite uncanny.

It literally took me four hours to get the avatar just right.


What a odd waste of time for a person that hates "space barbies". If your avatar doesn't matter why didn't you just make a random character and get out into those spaceships that Eve is only about?

Your strange creepy face mocks your own argument everytime you post that avatars don't matter to you.

Issler


Please tell me you read my :words: post at the top of this page before you decided to go for an easy shot at a troll who has again succeeded in baiting you with a single sentence.


I did. Didn't see much need to comment on your comments. I'd disagree that CCP could at least announce intentions of putting WiS back in plan now instead of leaving us with "on ice indefeinitely" or even better whatever resources on left on WoD get focused on WiS in some form so it isn't dead and buried. You have to remember, WiS is the first feature ever CCP has stated as no long planned to be developed furtner.

The whole point of this thread is to get CCP to tell us WiS will be coming back in a reasonable amount of time. To not get away with saying they killed it because no one wants it.

But in general I found your post to be a reasonable.

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#896 - 2011-11-08 22:19:07 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
MotherMoon wrote:
Incarna was never a prototype for WoD. If yo really think that, get your facts straight.

Wod was the prototype for incarna. Remember most of us PLAYED Walking in stations at fanfest 4 years ago before WoD even had a single dev.

so suck it.

lol you think the engine you saw at fanfest years ago was the same one in the game now.


QFT.

When CCP bought out White Wolf they threw all the old (2007-08) WIS iterations out the window and started afresh with whitee wolf's stuff.

so suck it.


I've repeatedly stated what I'd really like to see CCP announce is they are going dump the WoD engine and start a next generation WiS attempt with the engine they are building Dust on. I really think if CCP was telling the truth the reason WoD and WiS are dead is the vampire engine won't scale. I know they can deploy a WiS implementation with the Unreal engine. Maybe not the best there is but you can build commercial products with it.

Oh, and the next generation WiS project is still a lower priority the FiS (just to head off the troll responses that like to claim I want FiS work to stop).

Issler
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#897 - 2011-11-08 22:21:42 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
I've repeatedly stated what I'd really like to see CCP announce is they are going dump the WoD engine and start a next generation WiS attempt with the engine they are building Dust on.

They should probably wait and see just how badly Dust fails before doing that.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Hwong Jian
Perkone
Caldari State
#898 - 2011-11-08 22:27:35 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:


Wod was the prototype for incarna.



This is SOOO true! I remember when WoD first came out, I kept thinking to myself, did they even bother to beta test this crap?

You are so very right that World of Darkness was the prototype for Incarna.

Hell, I bet they're even waiting for more people to playtest World of Darkness for them so they can get Incarna just right.

Please, hit us with more of your spot-on insight, MotherMoon!

You're like the Bill O'Reilly of the EVE Forums.
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#899 - 2011-11-08 22:45:42 UTC
Stupid question I expect. Am I right in thinking that WoD never made it to beta? Was there ever some version of WoD that showed the Carbon engine supporting multi-player play at all?

I wasn't following WoD and did a quick search (found a really funny post from the producer of WoD that claimed Incarna was so late because of all the FiS work CCP was doing!!!!) and can't see that WoD ever got to beta.

Anyone on this thread that knows how far WoD got?

Issler
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#900 - 2011-11-08 22:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aidan Brooder
Issler Dainze wrote:
Stupid question I expect. Am I right in thinking that WoD never made it to beta? Was there ever some version of WoD that showed the Carbon engine supporting multi-player play at all?

I wasn't following WoD and did a quick search (found a really funny post from the producer of WoD that claimed Incarna was so late because of all the FiS work CCP was doing!!!!) and can't see that WoD ever got to beta.

Anyone on this thread that knows how far WoD got?

Issler


They had the fangs design finished.

Truly, while a fan of Vampire the Masquerade, I never saw as much as a demo of WoD.
But then I think they stopped too early in the development phase for that.

They were just getting warm for the "Hype" phase I think.

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x