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Allow warp disruption field generators to use scripts to modify effects
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Joshua Lonestar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-07-03 15:21:51 UTC
I'm throwing this out as a possible bandaid solution to the cloaking "problem". (I dont think its a problem, but think this would make an interesting change to game mechanics)

I'd like to see the current disruption generators effect modified to be script driven. From there, I'd like to see the addition of various scripts which change the effects of the generator. Off the top of my head, I think the following scripts would be interesting.

1) Warp disruption script - Allows the generator to function as it currently does. Disables warping
2) Web script - Causes generator to have the same effect as a web on all ships inside the bubble radius.
3) Cloak inhibitor - Prevents any cloak type for functioning inside the radius of the bubble. Will immediately decloak any cloaked ship which warps into the bubble.

This could really be extended to have all sorts of other scripts...tracking enhancers, tracking disruptors, electronic enhancers which reduce ewar chances, etc etc.

I like the idea of scripts, I'd love to see that extended to other modules.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#2 - 2013-07-03 15:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
This kind of thing has been suggested before many times. The main drawback to the decloaking one is that you're handing gatecampers an iWin button. All they'd need to do in nullsec (or lowsec if you're allowing the use of it there) is to have a HIC with the bubble up around a gate and voila, no cov ops ships can get away from ganks as their cloaks no longer work at all.

The main issue with the Web one is that a HIC with one of these + a HIC with a normal warp bubble would simply stop any enemy fleet getting away at all. At the moment you need as many webs within ~10km of each enemy ship as there are enemy ships. You're suggesting one ship being able to slow down an entire fleet. At least at the moment a fleet has some chance of escape from a bubble if they decide to disengage by scattering towards the outside of the bubble.

This would be completely unbalanced.

EDIT - Actually, a gate camp with one of each would be completely OP. The only way to get through the gatecamp would literally be to have enough firepower and tank to kill or run off all the gatecampers. There are ways round this, I suppose. You could limit to one bubble at a time so any bubbles overlap and they collapse but then that could be abused by using a bubbler to collapse an enemy bubble.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#3 - 2013-07-03 15:32:26 UTC
only webbing script would be a big improvement, lots of more time to declaok them

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Joshua Lonestar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-07-03 15:33:28 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
This kind of thing has been suggested before many times. The main drawback to the decloaking one is that you're handing gatecampers an iWin button. All they'd need to do in nullsec (or lowsec if you're allowing the use of it there) is to have a HIC with the bubble up around a gate and voila, no cov ops ships can get away from ganks as their cloaks no longer work at all.

The main issue with the Web one is that a HIC with one of these + a HIC with a normal warp bubble would simply stop any enemy fleet getting away at all. At the moment you need as many webs within ~10km of each enemy ship as there are enemy ships. You're suggesting one ship being able to slow down an entire fleet. At least at the moment a fleet has some chance of escape from a bubble if they decide to disengage by scattering towards the outside of the bubble.

This would be completely unbalanced.

EDIT - Actually, a gate camp with one of each would be completely OP. The only way to get through the gatecamp would literally be to have enough firepower and tank to kill or run off all the gatecampers. There are ways round this, I suppose. You could limit to one bubble at a time so any bubbles overlap and they collapse but then that could be abused by using a bubbler to collapse an enemy bubble.


Because sitting around for hours in a HIC hoping to catch a Cov Ops is fun? If they want to kill a Cov Ops that badly, I say they deserve it.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#5 - 2013-07-03 15:38:27 UTC
Joshua Lonestar wrote:
If I want to kill a Cov Ops that badly, I say I deserve it.


And you really can't see how having 3 HICS, one with a cloak nullifier bubble, one with a web bubble and one with a warp disruption bubble all sat on a gate with a bunch of dps ships and one tackle frigate would be unbalanced?

Literally no individual ship could escape it. None.
Joshua Lonestar
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-07-03 15:43:24 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Joshua Lonestar wrote:
If I want to kill a Cov Ops that badly, I say I deserve it.


And you really can't see how having 3 HICS, one with a cloak nullifier bubble, one with a web bubble and one with a warp disruption bubble all sat on a gate with a bunch of dps ships and one tackle frigate would be unbalanced?

Literally no individual ship could escape it. None.


Of course I do, but its very easy to bring up "corner case" conditions. I've very rarely ran into 1 HIC on a gate/WH, let alone a group of them.

In general gamplay how often would you expect to see a gang dedicate 3 ships to HICs to do this? But, if thats a concern disallow overlapping HIC bubbles.

Trust me, I know the big crap sandwich a guy would be eating if he jumped into those 3 bubbles combined. I also know I've rarely, rarely jumped into bubbles and died. Far more often its 19 DPS/tackle ships on a gate, not a bunch of HICs. Maybe we fly in different systems?
Purps
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-07-03 15:44:49 UTC
Might as well delete the Cloaky T2 Indies if this happened.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#8 - 2013-07-03 15:49:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Yeah, I completely agree. At the moment you only ever see one HIC but that's because they don't need more than one HIC. If this was implemented, 3 HICS would become mandatory.

As I mentioned, if bubbles overlapping collapsed it would dramatically change the way bubbles are used and pretty much invalidate them for fleet use due to the fact that the side trying to disengage could collapse the bubble holding them there with their own HIC. The obvious counter to that is that only bubbles in the same Fleet/Corp/Alliance could collapse it's own bubbles but then you'd just have every gatecamp with NPC corp unfleeted HIC alts so they could overlap them.

EDIT:
Joshua Lonestar wrote:
Trust me, I know the big crap sandwich a guy would be eating if he jumped into those 3 bubbles combined. I also know I've rarely, rarely jumped into bubbles and died. Far more often its 19 DPS/tackle ships on a gate, not a bunch of HICs. Maybe we fly in different systems?

That's because you only jumped into a bubble that meant you couldn't warp till you got to the edge of it. If you couldn't cloak and you lost 60% of your speed as well as not being able to warp you would get caught, every time.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-07-03 18:05:30 UTC
Joshua Lonestar wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Joshua Lonestar wrote:
If I want to kill a Cov Ops that badly, I say I deserve it.


And you really can't see how having 3 HICS, one with a cloak nullifier bubble, one with a web bubble and one with a warp disruption bubble all sat on a gate with a bunch of dps ships and one tackle frigate would be unbalanced?

Literally no individual ship could escape it. None.


Of course I do, but its very easy to bring up "corner case" conditions. I've very rarely ran into 1 HIC on a gate/WH, let alone a group of them.

In general gamplay how often would you expect to see a gang dedicate 3 ships to HICs to do this? But, if thats a concern disallow overlapping HIC bubbles.

Trust me, I know the big crap sandwich a guy would be eating if he jumped into those 3 bubbles combined. I also know I've rarely, rarely jumped into bubbles and died. Far more often its 19 DPS/tackle ships on a gate, not a bunch of HICs. Maybe we fly in different systems?



Do you not think that if this change came in, every camp would suddenly make a point of having 3 HICs?

And if you disallow overlapping bubbles, you might as well remove the things as you just made them pretty much worthless in actual PVP.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#10 - 2013-07-03 18:24:05 UTC
the anti-cloaking script: no. instalocking HICs are already a nightmare for cloakers, as you cannot cloak when targeted as it is. Ive been caught by several gatecamps who employed a HIC with several ships remote sensor boosting it.

the web script: maybe, but only if its not AoE. make it like the infinipoint and maybe you've got something. If it has to be AoE, then perhaps a different effect is needed that accomplishes somewhat the same thing to a much lesser effect, like a maybe a script that increases mass on all ships in the bubble, effectively slowing them, increasing align time and such. How about splitting this into 2 scripts: Focused Webification script and Mass Multiplication script. Focused web script would give 30k range on a 60% web (equal to an unbonused t2 webifer with greater range). The Mass Multiplication script would give an AoE increase of mass (20%) and align time increase (+20%) making it less effective than the focused version, but making everything in effect range slower.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#11 - 2013-07-03 21:20:43 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
the anti-cloaking script: no. instalocking HICs are already a nightmare for cloakers, as you cannot cloak when targeted as it is. Ive been caught by several gatecamps who employed a HIC with several ships remote sensor boosting it.

the web script: maybe, but only if its not AoE. make it like the infinipoint and maybe you've got something. If it has to be AoE, then perhaps a different effect is needed that accomplishes somewhat the same thing to a much lesser effect, like a maybe a script that increases mass on all ships in the bubble, effectively slowing them, increasing align time and such. How about splitting this into 2 scripts: Focused Webification script and Mass Multiplication script. Focused web script would give 30k range on a 60% web (equal to an unbonused t2 webifer with greater range). The Mass Multiplication script would give an AoE increase of mass (20%) and align time increase (+20%) making it less effective than the focused version, but making everything in effect range slower.

The biggest webbing effect such a bubble should ever have should be 20%

Period.

People often burn back to gate even when you have vigilant with 2 webs on gate, why? Because people gain momentum before the webs are applied, if you make a bubble webifying effect then every ship gets instantly webbed.

Which is needless to say very overpowered.

As for decloaking bubbles... That's a stupid idea all together.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#12 - 2013-07-04 00:24:07 UTC
You don't even need 3 hics to use all three scripts. Just fit one hic with 3 generators and **** face on everything!!! You could easily gate camp with a few dudes. 3 bubble hic w/ 3 diff scripts instalock legion or loki and falcon alt. You would be unstoppable

-1 to this idea

Blue-Fire Best Fire