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Null Mining With Rorqaul
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Specialist Nova
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-06-28 16:32:07 UTC
Alright, So i understand that as a general rule its a BIG no no to drop a rorq into a belt with the rest of the mining fleet and deploy it.

So here is my question, if you are comfortable with the system and knowing that only way anyone can get to you in your dead end system is either to log in there or to travel in, and by traveling in there will be people to spot you 3 jumps out from the designated mining area. Is it for lack of a better word ok to have the rorqual close enough to the fleet to support them with drones but yet far enough that if someone enters it can freely warp to a pos because its aligned or cloak up or jump out.

Been bouncing this idea around with in a mining community i am involved with and every one acts as if im insane.

Its not being deployed inside the belt just there to boost and tractor all the cans in
Chic Botany
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-06-28 16:50:44 UTC
The question is why risk a huge investment in a belt when it's not being used to it's full potential (Deployed mode)?

I've got a rorq and there is no way in hell it would leave the sanctuary of a pos.

If you want to tractor cans in then use an orca if you must, but there are far better ways of hauling from a mining op (create a warp in bookmark which is 200km from the miners, warp to that from the drop-off point and then warp to the miner with a couple of cans near them.

Yes you could jump out if you've got a perma-cyno running somewhere, or a cyno generator in a system, but in a moment of panic would you trust yourself as the system rapidly fills up with hostiles from a hot-drop? I'm not sure I would trust myself not to screw something up Cry
Specialist Nova
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-06-28 17:14:16 UTC
True but the issue is we have 2 rorquals there, no orca because that is hard to move around safely.

I know it is considered stupid but idk maybe im just too much of a risk taker
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#4 - 2013-06-28 17:27:16 UTC
I promise no Rorqual has ever been killed in a belt when they thought they were safe because they had eyes 3 jumps out. Twisted
Specialist Nova
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-06-28 17:50:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Specialist Nova
Aliventi wrote:
I promise no Rorqual has ever been killed in a belt when they thought they were safe because they had eyes 3 jumps out. Twisted


;) Not worried about a NC. thats for sure lol

as we all know you wouldnt harm a kitten Lol
PhatController
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-06-28 18:00:16 UTC
Why not build an orca out where you are?

Nothing partically wrong with using a rorq in a belt other then that there are much cheaper ships that can do the same job. If all you want to do is round up all the cans, why not use a noctis?
Specialist Nova
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-06-28 18:15:39 UTC
PhatController wrote:
Why not build an orca out where you are?

Nothing partically wrong with using a rorq in a belt other then that there are much cheaper ships that can do the same job. If all you want to do is round up all the cans, why not use a noctis?


The reasoning was that we didnt want to have to try and move an orca if for some reason we had to get out on short notice
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-06-28 19:47:26 UTC
i've done this before in null, but this was before the change in ore spawns (when you had to probe them down). not sure i would do it these days with the ability to instantly warp to the spawn.

what i did was to warp to the belt at 75km, then immedately align to pos. after that i would begin tractoring cans. if anyone that i didn't know (even in same corp or alliance) jumped in, i would warp to pos. the risky part is landing at 75km and aligning. if anyone jumped in right after warp, they stood a change at getting to the belt and catching me before i could get fully aligned. i did have a cloak, so i could have cloaked up at 75 in the belt and hoped for the best. its defiantly one of those times when you need to be glued to your keyboard and paying attention at all times to both local and the local of adjacent systems. gl.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-06-28 20:53:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Sin
Not worth the risk. It's not just someone warping in, someone might log in after a few days, or you might miss something, or any number of "we're not at home to Mr Cockup" moments can happen. Unless you can afford to blow 2.5b, you might as well minimise the risk. You don't gain much by sitting in belt.

So put it in a POS bubble, burn some Heavy Water in siege, and give full boost to your miners. It isn't as if they have to drop their cans off all that often (if you fly macks).

And btw, stop using hulks. Put some nanos on your Mackinaws (for faster GTFO), and sit and mine. I really don't see the point in cargo jet canning any more when I can fly a can and warp it around.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#10 - 2013-06-28 21:06:10 UTC

Perhaps if you could cloak the Rorqual when it is in deployed mode, this would make it a bit safer to operate in a belt.

If you tractor a can too close, you won't be able to cloak.
If you are targeted by NPC's on grid, you won't be able to cloak.

But, you can take care of both of these obstacles and attempt to cloak up reasonable quickly if a hostile comes into system. Furthermore, you can achieve Jump cap and cyno out if it stays hostile.

Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-06-28 21:55:59 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Perhaps if you could cloak the Rorqual when it is in deployed mode, this would make it a bit safer to operate in a belt.

If you tractor a can too close, you won't be able to cloak.
If you are targeted by NPC's on grid, you won't be able to cloak.

But, you can take care of both of these obstacles and attempt to cloak up reasonable quickly if a hostile comes into system. Furthermore, you can achieve Jump cap and cyno out if it stays hostile.



You can't cloak when your core is on. You can't give good bonuses without your core being on. If you aren't going to siege it, you might as well not bother using it. There are cheaper ships if you just want to haul with it.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#12 - 2013-06-28 22:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Victoria Sin wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Perhaps if you could cloak the Rorqual when it is in deployed mode, this would make it a bit safer to operate in a belt.

If you tractor a can too close, you won't be able to cloak.
If you are targeted by NPC's on grid, you won't be able to cloak.

But, you can take care of both of these obstacles and attempt to cloak up reasonable quickly if a hostile comes into system. Furthermore, you can achieve Jump cap and cyno out if it stays hostile.



You can't cloak when your core is on. You can't give good bonuses without your core being on. If you aren't going to siege it, you might as well not bother using it. There are cheaper ships if you just want to haul with it.


I'm aware of how the Rorqual currently operates....

I was proposing giving the Rorqual the ABILITY to cloak while sieged.... which would dramatically improve the life expectancy of a rorqual sitting in a belt when hostiles come into system, while still being imperfect enough that they could easily die to hostiles appearing at the wrong moment.

People rat in pimped out carriers, nightmares, machariels, and tengu's worth more than a Rorqual, so it's not the price of the ship that prevents it from being used outside a POS. Its the fact that siege mode leaves it a bit too vulnerable!
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-06-28 22:15:59 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

People rat in pimped out carriers, nightmares, machariels, and tengu's!


Yes, they do. And I see them die to hot drops at alarmingly regular intervals.
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-28 23:47:53 UTC
With the proposed changes to industrials, it might be better to leave the Rorqual in the POS and issue an Iteron 4 to everyone in your corp. With modest Gallente industrial skill, they should be able to pick up 2 jet cans of ore per trip.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#15 - 2013-06-28 23:52:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Victoria Sin wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

People rat in pimped out carriers, nightmares, machariels, and tengu's!


Yes, they do. And I see them die to hot drops at alarmingly regular intervals.


At Op, the 5 minute siege timer on a Rorqual is generally too long for you to safely deploy at a belt outside of being very deep in very friendly territory. If you don't seige/deploy it, the Rorqual doesn't give you much benefit (no link bonus, no ore compression, etc).

So here's a suggestion: Bring along a small tower in the corp hangar, and anchor/online (takes 7.5 + 7.5 minutes), and fuel it for as long as you run the Op. This gives the rorqual some safety in case hostiles do show up, and you can safely cyno and/or log out from inside the POS shields to "save" the Rorqual if hostiles remain. This is far better than sieging in a belt, where you'll be SOL if a hostile does appear. Treat the tower as disposable! Note: a small tower is a bit small for a capital to manuever in, so be careful of bumps, or upgrade to a medium and live with longer anchor/online times.

Unless the Rorqual gets retooled, (like being allowed to cloak when seiged), its exceedingly dangerous to deploy outside of a POS.
Specialist Nova
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-06-29 01:07:23 UTC
Huttan Funaila wrote:
With the proposed changes to industrials, it might be better to leave the Rorqual in the POS and issue an Iteron 4 to everyone in your corp. With modest Gallente industrial skill, they should be able to pick up 2 jet cans of ore per trip.


true, i see that considering the potential problem i should just leave it inside
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-06-30 18:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
Specialist Nova wrote:
Alright, So i understand that as a general rule its a BIG no no to drop a rorq into a belt with the rest of the mining fleet and deploy it.

So here is my question, if you are comfortable with the system and knowing that only way anyone can get to you in your dead end system is either to log in there or to travel in, and by traveling in there will be people to spot you 3 jumps out from the designated mining area. Is it for lack of a better word ok to have the rorqual close enough to the fleet to support them with drones but yet far enough that if someone enters it can freely warp to a pos because its aligned or cloak up or jump out.

Been bouncing this idea around with in a mining community i am involved with and every one acts as if im insane.

Its not being deployed inside the belt just there to boost and tractor all the cans in



Specialist Nova wrote:
True but the issue is we have 2 rorquals there, no orca because that is hard to move around safely.

I know it is considered stupid but idk maybe im just too much of a risk taker


1 Rorqual in siege in a pos giving out bonuses, another Rorqual for hauling ore that's set up for speed/cargo with highs full of tractor beams. Properly fit you can get the thing to >22s align time, and it makes ore management super easy. In the unlikely event that you manage to get caught you can just emergency jump to a beacon.

And unlike an Orca you can actually move the damned thing around easily.
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#18 - 2013-07-02 12:58:10 UTC
i agree with mr Goon here that you are better of having 2 rorquals at your disposal.

Deploying them on the field with the current game mechanics won't allow you any better bonuses. The risk getting cought is so much higher that it's not worth it unless you have a huge protection duty doing something near by.

Which game me an idea... can rorqual use cyno while they are deployed? Twisted

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-07-02 18:36:55 UTC
Putting 2 x Rorqual in the field, one in belt is just nuts. Well over 5b of assets to give you a marginal gain in efficiency of hauling. It's really not worth the risk.
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-07-03 11:58:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
Victoria Sin wrote:
Putting 2 x Rorqual in the field, one in belt is just nuts. Well over 5b of assets to give you a marginal gain in efficiency of hauling. It's really not worth the risk.


You're not going to magically lose the one deployed in a pos, so that's safe. That just leaves your hauler out. Also your hauler can instantly jump to a cynobeacon as long as you're not dumb enough to get pointed.

2.5b isn't a very large amount of isk. Especially when a fleet is making half that in an hour.
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