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At what point is something an Exploit and not game Mechanics ? Bumped for 60 Minutes

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Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#341 - 2013-07-02 22:16:40 UTC
well were talking about aggression timers, which bumping has nothing to do with
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#342 - 2013-07-02 22:17:02 UTC
Silent Rambo wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Silent Rambo wrote:
Add collision damage. Youll stop bumping into things eventually as you see your ship go *pop*. Don't make one bump enough to damage a ship a lot, just make a bunch in a certain time frame add up to killing yourself.

Free ganking? Excellent.


Yeah I see your point lol. I just wish **** could actually collide with other stuff.


I absolutely agree. When I first joined EvE and was running the training missions, I got rather excited when doing the Advanced Military agent because, based on those missions, I thought it was actually possible to suicide into something. Of course, I was paranoid as all get-out because of it, as well, and had a bit of a panic the first time I overshot a destination (first time using an MWD) and almost ran into a gate).

I was rather sad to find out that no, you cannot, in fact, slam your ship into something to blow both of them up.

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#343 - 2013-07-02 22:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Callyuk
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
well were talking about aggression timers, which bumping has nothing to do with


Bumping in itself has been ruled a legal mechanic.

But when you throw all these other issues into the mix Bumping is at the forefront of this disscusion.

Without the bumping the capital in highsec would never get caught for a Gank by non war tagets that werent in ships able to Alpha it

By allowing Bumping and combat aggression timers on freighters CCP is basically giving Goons/others the green light to remove freighters from the game its just a matter of time before there all gone.
stoicfaux
#344 - 2013-07-02 23:18:09 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
ShahFluffers wrote:

Really think about that.

If you gain suspect status by bumping someone...

- then every time you undock from a congested station (Jita 4-4) you will bump or be bumped. Everyone will gain suspect status and carnage will ensue.
- when you warp to gates there is a chance you might run into someone (or even the gate)... resulting in people being made suspect for no reason.
- how will the server decide who should gain the suspect timer? Based on who had the lower velocity? Greater mass?

Sure... there are ways to get around this...

- make an exception where ships won't go suspect if they are within a certain range of the station.
- make another exception where people within a certain range of the stargate won't go suspect.

WHOOPSIE-DAISY! Back to square one again. People will be using the exception to bump people off of gates again (at least up to a point).


tl;dr... computers and coding are actually quite "stupid" and can't reason. You also can't create or alter a blanket mechanic that affects so many things in the game without creating numerous exceptions and/or creating new, unforeseen consequences that will also be abused.


Doesn't have to be sec status. If you bump someone you get zapped by a Stasis Web Tower sentry "gun" instead of attacked by sentry guns and/or concord.

Getting bounced around for a hour is a bit extreme, IMO.

/apologies in advance if the idea has already been mentioned in the previous 17 pages.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#345 - 2013-07-02 23:24:25 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
well were talking about aggression timers, which bumping has nothing to do with


Bumping in itself has been ruled a legal mechanic.

But when you throw all these other issues into the mix Bumping is at the forefront of this disscusion.

Without the bumping the capital in highsec would never get caught for a Gank by non war tagets that werent in ships able to Alpha it

By allowing Bumping and combat aggression timers on freighters CCP is basically giving Goons/others the green light to remove freighters from the game its just a matter of time before there all gone.


yeah i remember when ccp removed all the freighter blueprints from the game too
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#346 - 2013-07-02 23:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Callyuk
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Callyuk wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
well were talking about aggression timers, which bumping has nothing to do with


Bumping in itself has been ruled a legal mechanic.

But when you throw all these other issues into the mix Bumping is at the forefront of this disscusion.

Without the bumping the capital in highsec would never get caught for a Gank by non war tagets that werent in ships able to Alpha it

By allowing Bumping and combat aggression timers on freighters CCP is basically giving Goons/others the green light to remove freighters from the game its just a matter of time before there all gone.


yeah i remember when ccp removed all the freighter blueprints from the game too


you know i have python mines but guess what there about as useless as a ME 1million PE 1 million freighter BPO (since they will be unsaleable) if its going to get blown up soon as it gets out of dock range or jumps through a stargate .


Im pretty bad at pvp but if u can hold down a target long enuff i can kill it for u Big smile
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#347 - 2013-07-02 23:55:09 UTC
Quote:
you know i have python mines but guess what there about as useless as a ME 1million PE 1 million freighter BPO (since they will be unsaleable) if its going to get blown up soon as it gets out of dock range or jumps through a stargate .


You do realize that if the Goons blew up every freighter in the game tomorrow, people not only wouldn't stop using them, but if you had a BPO for one, you'd be obscenely rich as a result, right?

The market works in quite the opposite way as you imply in the post I quoted.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#348 - 2013-07-02 23:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Callyuk
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
you know i have python mines but guess what there about as useless as a ME 1million PE 1 million freighter BPO (since they will be unsaleable) if its going to get blown up soon as it gets out of dock range or jumps through a stargate .


You do realize that if the Goons blew up every freighter in the game tomorrow, people not only wouldn't stop using them, but if you had a BPO for one, you'd be obscenely rich as a result, right?

The market works in quite the opposite way as you imply in the post I quoted.


If this were true there must be a lot of ****** carebears in high sec that love to throw away a Bil for a ship that there first stargate jump will be there last. Unless of course concord plans to buy the BPO's back at 200%
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#349 - 2013-07-03 00:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Murk Paradox wrote:
That's the problem. It shouldn't apply to freighters at all.
Of course it should. Freighters are not special, nor are freighter pilots; they abide by the same rules as everything else.

Quote:
Since freighters are not used for any of the same abuses the logoff factor of the aggression timers, it shouldn't apply, right?
Since they're trying to enact the exact same abuse (logging off to not die), it most definitely should.
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#350 - 2013-07-03 00:21:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
That's the problem. It shouldn't apply to freighters at all.
Of course it should. Freighters are not special, nor are freighter pilots; they abide by the same rules as everything else.

Quote:
Since freighters are not used for any of the same abuses the logoff factor of the aggression timers, it shouldn't apply, right?
Since they're trying to enact the exact same abuse (logging off to not die), it most definitely should.


Freighters are not special hence they should be given 8 mids and 8 lows :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#351 - 2013-07-03 00:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Callyuk wrote:
Freighters are not special hence they should be given 8 mids and 8 lows :)
Sure. You understand that this would require them to reduce their cargo hold by 90% and slash their HP by… oh… half or so, right?

If that's what you're after, may I suggest the post-tiercide Bestower? I'd rather not have my freighters nerfed in the way you suggest.
Domina Negotium
Small Personal Corp
#352 - 2013-07-03 01:24:28 UTC
Berke Negri wrote:
theres no way i am going to watch a sixteen minute grainy video about a miner getting bumped
with loud as hell wooden mouse clicks
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#353 - 2013-07-03 01:30:27 UTC
Domina Negotium wrote:
Berke Negri wrote:
theres no way i am going to watch a sixteen minute grainy video about a miner getting bumped
with loud as hell wooden mouse clicks



LMAO
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#354 - 2013-07-03 01:32:06 UTC
Domina Negotium wrote:
Berke Negri wrote:
theres no way i am going to watch a sixteen minute grainy video about a miner getting bumped
with loud as hell wooden mouse clicks


Such a thing totally exists

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#355 - 2013-07-03 01:33:50 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Domina Negotium wrote:
Berke Negri wrote:
theres no way i am going to watch a sixteen minute grainy video about a miner getting bumped
with loud as hell wooden mouse clicks


Such a thing totally exists


NICE
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#356 - 2013-07-03 02:34:07 UTC
Not sure if any of you played Privateer, old DOS based game, but you could bump friendly freighters, once, twice, a few more times and they would attack you. It had to be hard enough to cause damage.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#357 - 2013-07-03 02:42:33 UTC
looks like someone only has hull upgrades 3 trained.

Art of Explosions
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#358 - 2013-07-03 05:41:28 UTC
Elecktra Blue
Perkone
Caldari State
#359 - 2013-07-03 06:45:57 UTC
Callyuk wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdq5in9fR-Y


How many times is this going to be posted hah.

Miniluv Minister
Callyuk
M1A12 Corp
#360 - 2013-07-03 12:47:36 UTC
as many times as i want to