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Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
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Possible bug / error with Shield Power Relay II stats / fitting
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Karen Akagai
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-06-28 19:46:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Karen Akagai
I've noticed that T2 / meta-5 shield power relays (Shield Power Relay II), despite requiring more training than their T1 /meta-4 counterparts (Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I), have increased fitting requirements and provide no benefit (they're also significantly more expensive, although that's beside the point; price is not relevant factor to determine an item's meta level and a price increase could be justified if they had some advantage).

In other words, there's currently no reason to equip (or even buy) a T2 shield power relay over a T1. Looks like the T2 module should have lower fittings (instead of higher), or, alternatively some small stat advantage to justify the higher fittings.

I contacted a GM (Moustache) and he confirmed that "it appears you are correct and this specific module does not give any benefits over its T1 counterparts despite the extra training required. This appears to be intended at this time but we recommend bringing this to the attention of the developers on the forums as they may be unaware of the situation revolving around the module."

I'm not sure what he means by "this appears to be intended", as I can't see any reason why CCP would "intend" to have a useless module in the game.

If the T1 / meta-4 module is "intended" to be objectively better than the T2 / meta-5 one (which is itself a bit odd, since the higher meta number is supposed to signifiy a relative increase in quality), then the T2 one should be much cheaper than it is now (it's almost 8x more expensive than the superior T1 module), to justify the downgrade and the extra training time required (but that would add price to the list of factors that influence meta levels, which seems like a can of worms).
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#2 - 2013-07-02 18:59:28 UTC
the same holds true for ecm mods except that the meta 4's are better than T2
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-07-02 20:03:59 UTC
There are lots of modules that are this way and it has been so for years. You should be posting about this in the features and ideas discussion.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Karen Akagai
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-07-03 21:27:42 UTC
It's not really a "feature". I mean, the "meta level" stat already exists and indicates relative quality in the vast majority of modules. This looks like a bug (or maybe it was originally working correctly, and then the stats of one of the modules got updated with some patch, and they forgot to check how it affected its position in the meta chain), so "issues" seems like the right place (since there's no "bug report" forum).
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-07-04 17:26:21 UTC
It's been a known issue for a long time. I can't know what they were thinking when they designed the module, but my theories include them intending the modules to be rare enough for the tech 2 to be superior through price, modules which had attributes that got removed or later adjusted by clumsy devs, and even that whoever drafted the original attributes for these was drunk.

But as they are currently is "intended", and you have to explain why it is messed up in the features and ideas discussion, or even just mention it (because they are more aware lately), and just let them know that you and everyone who replies to your post are more evidence that it's a hot button issue and worth tackling in the near future.

I like the idea of meta 4 being approximately equal to meta 5, but I think that should come in the form of slightly reduced attributes along with slightly reduced fitting costs and tech 1 skill requirements.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Karen Akagai
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-07-05 12:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Karen Akagai
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I can't know what they were thinking when they designed the module, but my theories include them intending the modules to be rare enough for the tech 2 to be superior through price


While that's possible, I think it's unlikely, since price isn't supposed to influence meta level (if it was, that would be a real nightmare to maintain)

I don't think it makes much sense to say that it's "working as intended" when it's working the opposite way from 99% of the modules in the game. If the meta level is "working as intended" for this module, then it's wrong for (almost) everything else. This isn't even one of those cases where the module is "better in some ways and worse in others". The meta 5 is objectively not an improvement over the meta 4 in any way.

The "feature" (meta level as a quick and simplified way to compare the relative quality of similar modules) is fine. It's just that this particular module (and a few others - but a very small minority, globally) does not follow the normal behaviour of that feature.

As it exists, the T2 module seems to be there just to take up database space and to trick players into buying something that requires extra training, costs more, uses up more fitting, and has absolutely no benefits.

Maybe the "intention" is to troll players, but I'd rather think this just "fell through the cracks" (since it's a relatively minor bug). Either that or, of course:

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
whoever drafted the original attributes for these was drunk

Blink

Anyway, I'm fine with the T2 module staying in the game as it is, but at the very least they need to fix the meta level indication (i.e., simply label the superior T1 modules as "meta 6", "meta 7", etc., and move the officer modules up if necessary - no need to change their stats, just renumber the meta levels to make them consistent). It wouldn't make the T2 module any more useful, but at least the game wouldn't be trolling players by suggesting the T2 was an upgrade.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-07-07 18:31:08 UTC
Karen Akagai wrote:
I don't think it makes much sense to say that it's "working as intended" when it's working the opposite way from 99% of the modules in the game.

More like 80% of the modules in the game. And if you go back a year or two, it's maybe 60%. Meta 4 being better than meta 5 was almost as common as meta 5 having superior attributes for a long time, and more recently CCP has been changing those. They clearly feel the attributes on them are wrong, but initially I'm guessing those modules were working as intended.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."