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Opening some skills to level 6 or 'tech 2 skills' for the bitter vets

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zaqq
Galactic Deep Space Industries
Brave Collective
#1 - 2013-06-25 10:42:44 UTC
I brought this up in chribbas 200mil sp thread months ago but thought I would give it its own thread.

Basically I think some skills should be opened up for training to level 6 or even a new higher tier or something. To balance it out and make it mostly viable for the older players, the training times would be hideously long but worth it for that all important few extra percent of damage or ship bonus.

I would happily stop training skills like social and higher based industry that I don't want to train because of my play style. Training a skill to level 6 over the course of say two or three months would be more beneficial personally.

Anyways just a random thought, o7

(or just give us back the elite learning omplants XD )

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Mirel Dystoph
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-06-25 11:30:45 UTC
That's like opening pandoras box, but worse.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#3 - 2013-06-25 12:32:10 UTC
That's a really bad idea. Messes up the whole balance of Eve where new players can specialice and get as good as old players in specific tasks relatively quickly. Just skill another char on the account if you run out of ideas.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#4 - 2013-06-25 19:45:07 UTC
Last time I checked running skill queue is not mandatory so if you have all skills you wanted just stop filling it up with "skills like social and higher based industry that I don't want to train".

Invalid signature format
Mister Tuggles
Dickhead Corner
#5 - 2013-06-25 21:05:50 UTC
zaqq wrote:
I brought this up in chribbas 200mil sp thread months ago but thought I would give it its own thread.

Basically I think some skills should be opened up for training to level 6 or even a new higher tier or something. To balance it out and make it mostly viable for the older players, the training times would be hideously long but worth it for that all important few extra percent of damage or ship bonus.

I would happily stop training skills like social and higher based industry that I don't want to train because of my play style. Training a skill to level 6 over the course of say two or three months would be more beneficial personally.

Anyways just a random thought, o7

(or just give us back the elite learning omplants XD )



I wouldn't be opposed to certain skills opening up once you hit milestones in SP i.e. 100m, 200m. You would have to have some ridiculous pre-reqs, and they should only give MAYBE 1% per level as well as having an absolutely ridiculous train time (rank 16+)
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#6 - 2013-06-25 21:13:41 UTC
Hate the idea to L6.

Would be cool if they added a few more advanced skills maybe for stuff like cap that had the big multiplier and 1% increase.

Prereqs could be way high too.

Maybe call them master skill and require all other related skills to 5.

Engineering master.
Drone master.
Navigation master.
Missile master.
Gunnery master.
Mining master.

They'd look a lot like the requirements for elite certs.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#7 - 2013-06-26 13:54:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Paikis
This is a really bad idea. It's also been suggested a few times now.

With some skills that reduce cap usage or fitting requirements, you would actually GAIN things for using them.

Logistics get 15% reduction is cap usage for remote reps and cap transfers. at rank 5 you're reducing those by 75%. Rank 6 would put it at -90% which means they're basically free, especially when you can further reduce that number with implants.

Recons get 20% less CPU need on their cloaks per level. Rank 6 means that fitting a covert cloak would now GIVE you 20 CPU?

These are just 2 examples, I'm sure there are more.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-06-27 09:56:48 UTC
zaqq wrote:
I brought this up in chribbas 200mil sp thread months ago but thought I would give it its own thread.

Basically I think some skills should be opened up for training to level 6 or even a new higher tier or something. To balance it out and make it mostly viable for the older players, the training times would be hideously long but worth it for that all important few extra percent of damage or ship bonus.

I would happily stop training skills like social and higher based industry that I don't want to train because of my play style. Training a skill to level 6 over the course of say two or three months would be more beneficial personally.

Anyways just a random thought, o7

(or just give us back the elite learning omplants XD )




You know, you don't absolutely have to keep training the same character. You don't get a prize for having x number of SP ohn a certain character. If there are no more skills you need or want, start trainin up another character on the same account. I switched Malc's training a couple off years ago, and now I have a highly useful alt with 70M SP.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Airto TLA
Acorn's Wonder Bars
#9 - 2013-06-27 17:48:59 UTC
Paikis wrote:
This is a really bad idea. It's also been suggested a few times now.

With some skills that reduce cap usage or fitting requirements, you would actually GAIN things for using them.

Logistics get 15% reduction is cap usage for remote reps and cap transfers. at rank 5 you're reducing those by 75%. Rank 6 would put it at -90% which means they're basically free, especially when you can further reduce that number with implants.

Recons get 20% less CPU need on their cloaks per level. Rank 6 means that fitting a covert cloak would now GIVE you 20 CPU?

These are just 2 examples, I'm sure there are more.


Any ship the balanced with "oversized skill" bonuses such as the Slicer and some other navy frigs automatically become over powered in the had of the bitter vets, some ship bonuses assume lvl 5 is the highest and lvl 6 could break them, web bonused ships (100% webs, woot), what when ships can launch 6 drones ?, what happens when a ship that is cool but just can not fit the OP stuff now can becasue the player has two lvl 6 fitting skills?, so and so forth.

So basically it does two things: forces a complete ship rebalance and makes liars out of everyone who tells new players do not worry you will be close enough to bitter vets soon enough.

TL/DR Breaks to many things, so no.
Radius Prime
Tax Evading Ass.
#10 - 2013-06-27 20:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Radius Prime
I really don't see a hole in it as long as everybody can do it. If a new player wants to spend several months training a level 6 skill it should be up to him then. You could also exclude ship skills as to not disrupt the things mentioned before like logistics etc. One could start with core skills providing small benefits to those hardcore enough to train them to lvl 6.

At the same time get rid of the offgrid boosting mostly (ab)used by vets exclusively and it would cancel out the benefits of the lvl 6 skill.

Reopen the EVE gate so we can invade Serenity. Goons can go first.
Frank Millar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-06-29 18:31:16 UTC
I'm already foaming at the mouth when thinking about Battleship V and Large Gun V (any of them).

I will do them eventually, polish up on Support Skills, and then stop training this character.

So, no thanks.
Grandma Squirel
#12 - 2013-07-01 00:17:16 UTC
I agree, it removed the chance for a new player to ever be "As good" at anything as a vet player. Take a rifter, if you spend 8-12 months training rifter skills, you are going to be almost as good. If you spend 2.5 years training, you could say that no one has any rifter related skills higher then you. After this change, it would go to 10 years to fully train a rifter. While many of those skills are minor, and most wont impact the outcome of a battle, some would.

Particularly fitting skills. Being able to squeeze out just that little bit more fitting can make a huge difference to fits.

An Extra 5% powergrid and CPU From engineering 6 and electronics 6? HUGE. People will pay 500mil for a 6% implant over a 5%, and you can only have PG or CPU, not both. There is a reason people pay 500mil for that 1%, and you want to just give them it as a skill? And trust me, training fitting skills to 6 is what new players are going to be told to do BEFORE they go train skills that will let them have fun now.
Balthasar Moreq
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-07-01 07:22:24 UTC
As has already been mentioned going to lvl6 would be potentially gamebreaking unless €€P changed the bonuses on many of the skills. However a series of new skills that have lower bonuses (1% per level was mentioned) and with very high training modifiers would make better sense.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#14 - 2013-07-01 19:06:04 UTC
zaqq wrote:
I brought this up in chribbas 200mil sp thread months ago but thought I would give it its own thread.

Basically I think some skills should be opened up for training to level 6 or even a new higher tier or something. To balance it out and make it mostly viable for the older players, the training times would be hideously long but worth it for that all important few extra percent of damage or ship bonus.

I would happily stop training skills like social and higher based industry that I don't want to train because of my play style. Training a skill to level 6 over the course of say two or three months would be more beneficial personally.

Anyways just a random thought, o7

(or just give us back the elite learning omplants XD )



Small Hybrid Turret (or any Level 1 skill)
250 to Level 1
1,414 to Level 2
8,000 to Level 3
45,255 to Level 4
256,000 to Level 5 == @ max training (2700 SP/hr) = 94+ hrs = 3.9 days.
1,448,160 to Level 6 == @ max training (2700 SP/hr) = 536+ hours = 22+ days.
8,192,000 to Level 7 == @ max training (2700 SP/hr) = 3034+ hours = 126+ days.

For a Rank X skill, multiply those SP & Training time requirements by X. So Shield Management (Rank 3) would take 66+ days to train Level 6.

In general, the "time to train" would be a nice deterrent for people to train skills to level 6. Unfortunately, some skills would become silly OP with "additional Levels" opened up.
Would you Train Small Hybrid Turret Level 6 (22 days) for 5% more damage to all small blasters and railguns, or Small Blaster Spec V (11 days) for only a 2% boost to t2 blasters?

Would you Train AF V (Rank 4), Inty V (Rank 4), Covops V (Rank 4), instead of Gallente Frig VI (Rank 2). The Base frig skill will add massive bonuses to your damage output on all of those ships.

And OMG wtf would become of Tier 3 cruisers with their Rank 1 subsystems. Between crazy potent setups, lol gang boosters, and the like, balance would be a thing of the past!!!

Essentially, this would require massive rebalance, and careful examination of how skills don't stack when they should (if this was implemented)!!!
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#15 - 2013-07-01 20:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
I just want my Tech 3 weapons, battlecruisers and battleships and maybe even T2 capital ships and T2 capital weapons while we're at it....Make them stupid expensive for the modules and the skill books and that the skills have huge pre requirements and take a huge amount of time to train, i don't care, i'd still do it anyhow.



This is a char aproaching on 10 years of playing eve non stop, and i have adapted to every change in gameplay CCP could throw out, every bug, every exploit, every server crash and lag and i'm still here......What is missing from tthe old days is the challenge that you can never really beat the game, or having the sensation that your char is really improving when you're not far from 200 skills at lvl 5 anyhow.


We need content for the old farts of the game, we're getting bored of EVE and there being nothing to either aim for or challenge us specifically and the unfortunate fact is that many have already quit the game for these reasons and no, training up an alt of selling this one and starting all over again are no options i care to consider.
Untanas Volmyr
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-07-01 23:37:12 UTC
Super massive Mega Titan skill 1 training time 10 years.

Murphy's Technology Law - If your not thoroughly confused. Then you were not thoroughly informed.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#17 - 2013-07-02 00:41:16 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Untanas Volmyr wrote:
Super massive Mega Titan skill 1 training time 10 years.



They did it to themselves by introducing titans way back in the summer of 2005, and thinking that there would only be a few of them in operation, and made worse when plexes were made available and alllows players to pad their wallets by buying them from CCP and using that to buy super carriers and titans by the boat load.



Now there's got to be easily well over 1000 titans in the game and probably 3000 ~ 4000 super carriers and for territorial conquest in 0.0 space, it has become capital ship online indeed.


I wouldn't have released those back then and keep on focusing on sub capitals and release tech 3, tech 4 and even tech 5 gear and ships like it was once the plan for the game when it was launched in 2003.....Even the ability of becoming jove was a possibility at the time, so we can say we're massively off course and simply made the game wider with more content that's easy to train up to entiice new players, but the old farts got forgotten.....the ones that kept the game alive in the early days, even with all the bugs and exploits and server crashes.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-07-02 01:27:47 UTC
Horrible idea is horrible.

There is no Bob.

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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#19 - 2013-07-04 17:11:20 UTC
zaqq wrote:
I brought this up in chribbas 200mil sp thread months ago but thought I would give it its own thread.

Basically I think some skills should be opened up for training to level 6 or even a new higher tier or something. To balance it out and make it mostly viable for the older players, the training times would be hideously long but worth it for that all important few extra percent of damage or ship bonus.


Try fraction of a percent. I've got approximately 115 million SP, and I'd happily train Advanced Electronics and Advanced Engineering, even if they were high rank and gave only 0.2% extra grid or CPU per level. Or Advanced Warhead Upgrades for an even smaller alpha & DPS edge.

Likewise if refining is made so that it can't be 100% efficient ever, I'd be happy to train Advanced Veldspar Refining and so forth, just to improve my profit margin.
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#20 - 2013-07-05 10:58:52 UTC
Some new skills would be nice. Like cruiser specialization : 2% bonus to cruiser structure/armor/shield/dps/cap/cpu, but in order to train it, you would need all cruisers at 5.
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