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Faction missile (im)balance.

Author
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-07-01 20:26:32 UTC
A better idea:
Minmatar stones in lp store for festaival launcher^^

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-07-01 20:30:28 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
You can get a pink tutu, too.


So, you're saying that Khanid engineers don't have blueprints to build missiles?
Try to remember where they got those damn blueprints for missile systems in the first place...

Jen Ann Tonique wrote:
Lets not get ahead of ourselves here. It's obvious we have some anti Minmatar issues to work through (otherwise why is this still even a thing right?) so one step at a time. Smile


Yeah, that "Hurricane does 800+ deeps! Nerf it!" is getting quite old already.
Jen Ann Tonique
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-07-01 20:33:00 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:


Yeah, that "Hurricane does 800+ deeps! Nerf it!" is getting quite old already.



"Scissors is fine, nerf paper." - Rock.
Bear

Jen Ann Tonique does not approve of this product and/or service. Any comments contained herin are to be taken not seriously and no person/s shall hold Jen Ann Tonique responsible for any damage real and/or imagined due to use or misuse of above comment. By reading this statement you agree to the above terms.

Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-07-01 20:51:19 UTC
Jen Ann Tonique wrote:
FN and CN ammo are the same stats, I think Minmatar missiles should be a damage boost as well.

If you want to differentiate the turrets/launchers ok, but the ammo needs to be the same.


I don't see that just because the weapon systems differentiate (in this case the RF launchers take 15tf less CPU to fit but are otherwise inferior) that there's no reason or need for the ammo to differentiate either. Furthermore in this case you can't appreciably alter anything other than DPS for missiles, and at that you're doing it indirectly by altering the rate of fire and/or ammo capacity of the launchers. You can't make missiles faster or more suited to hitting smaller or faster targets by fiddling with the launcher as you can with turrets.
Jen Ann Tonique
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-07-01 21:00:37 UTC
If I pay the same price, I want the same DPS, and all faction ammo is a percentage increase to dps. How many people use CN hybrid guns over FN? Judging by the market price, not many. It's just not something that needs "fixed".



Jen Ann Tonique does not approve of this product and/or service. Any comments contained herin are to be taken not seriously and no person/s shall hold Jen Ann Tonique responsible for any damage real and/or imagined due to use or misuse of above comment. By reading this statement you agree to the above terms.

Adunh Slavy
#26 - 2013-07-01 21:08:33 UTC
More stuff for Winmatar ...

Ever notice, in sci-fi, the author's race, species or faction is always the most versatile?

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Jen Ann Tonique
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-07-01 21:16:35 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
More stuff for Winmatar ...

Ever notice, in sci-fi, the author's race, species or faction is always the most versatile?



Caldari use missiles and hybrid guns, have missiles and hybrid ammo in LP store.

Minmatar uses projectiles and missiles, has only projectile ammo in LP stores.

Which one is more versatile again? This isn't about making one better than another, it's about equality.

Jen Ann Tonique does not approve of this product and/or service. Any comments contained herin are to be taken not seriously and no person/s shall hold Jen Ann Tonique responsible for any damage real and/or imagined due to use or misuse of above comment. By reading this statement you agree to the above terms.

Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-07-01 21:18:23 UTC
Jen Ann Tonique wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
More stuff for Winmatar ...

Ever notice, in sci-fi, the author's race, species or faction is always the most versatile?



Caldari use missiles and hybrid guns, have missiles and hybrid ammo in LP store.

Minmatar uses projectiles and missiles, has only projectile ammo in LP stores.

Which one is more versatile again? This isn't about making one better than another, it's about equality.


Take a look on amarr and gallente lp store :P

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Jen Ann Tonique
Doomheim
#29 - 2013-07-01 21:22:39 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:


Take a look on amarr and gallente lp store :P



I have used Gallente LP stores (love the Megathron) quite extensively, never noticed anything untoward going on. Can't say anything about Amarr though.

Jen Ann Tonique does not approve of this product and/or service. Any comments contained herin are to be taken not seriously and no person/s shall hold Jen Ann Tonique responsible for any damage real and/or imagined due to use or misuse of above comment. By reading this statement you agree to the above terms.

Caljiav Ocanon
The Holy Rollers
#30 - 2013-07-02 18:44:07 UTC
Minmatar are obviously meant to have and use missiles, why can't I get my own ammo? Why am I forced to use the enemies ammo for my own faction equipment?

CCP please fix
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#31 - 2013-07-02 19:31:30 UTC
Claire Raynor wrote:
I would strongly like to see faction missiles in the Minmatar faction store - but missiles would also need to show up in the Amarr one too - and then the Gallente would need something too.

Minnie do get Auto-Targeting missiles (I think) - but I've never used them that much.

But I'd like this!


For the Gallente, faction drones are the obvious choice of a second "ammunition" type.
Lallante
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#32 - 2013-07-02 19:57:00 UTC
Jen Ann Tonique wrote:

Minmatar have viable rocket/missile ships from the Breacher frigate all the way to the Typhoon Battleship now, yet Minmatar pilots can't get faction rockets/missiles from their own racial LP stores.

I'm not sure why Minmatar don't have "Republic Fleet" missiles yet but would love to hear an explanation.




The same goes for amarr actually.
Sigras
Conglomo
#33 - 2013-07-02 20:07:27 UTC
an easier fix would be to remove CN hybrid ammo from the game because they're the odd ones out, but i feel like the CN would scream bloody murder if they did that.
Jen Ann Tonique
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-07-02 20:24:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jen Ann Tonique
Sigras wrote:
an easier fix would be to remove CN hybrid ammo from the game because they're the odd ones out, but i feel like the CN would scream bloody murder if they did that.



Very true.

I'd rather have a second choice of missile supplier myself though.


It would be nice if Amarr/Gallente had options to turn in say 5 drones + LP and ISK for 5 faction drones as well. Or at least Gallente.

Jen Ann Tonique does not approve of this product and/or service. Any comments contained herin are to be taken not seriously and no person/s shall hold Jen Ann Tonique responsible for any damage real and/or imagined due to use or misuse of above comment. By reading this statement you agree to the above terms.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#35 - 2013-07-02 20:58:47 UTC

It sounds like some Minnie FW pilots want a new outlet for their LP's....

On the surface, the creation of rustbucket missiles sounds alright, but I'd leave it up to the devs to decide if this will destroy game balance.

Jen Ann Tonique
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-07-02 21:02:46 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

It sounds like some Minnie FW pilots want a new outlet for their LP's....

On the surface, the creation of rustbucket missiles sounds alright, but I'd leave it up to the devs to decide if this will destroy game balance.




I can't speak for everyone, but I have no experience with FW myself. I want a better way to get ammo while I'm running missions. Selling ammo is usually not the best way to unload LPs, at least if you care about making ISK.

Jen Ann Tonique does not approve of this product and/or service. Any comments contained herin are to be taken not seriously and no person/s shall hold Jen Ann Tonique responsible for any damage real and/or imagined due to use or misuse of above comment. By reading this statement you agree to the above terms.

Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-07-02 21:33:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
Salpad wrote:
Claire Raynor wrote:
I would strongly like to see faction missiles in the Minmatar faction store - but missiles would also need to show up in the Amarr one too - and then the Gallente would need something too.

Minnie do get Auto-Targeting missiles (I think) - but I've never used them that much.

But I'd like this!


For the Gallente, faction drones are the obvious choice of a second "ammunition" type.


To the minmatar missile question... there are a number of options:
Mixed damage types: much like the warheads in their shells.. their EM missiles may do some Exp and Kin as well... etc
-Not good for min/maxing PvE, but perhaps better for PvE when you're not sure what enemy resists will be.
Or you could lower the damage increase to 10% instead of 15%, but then buff their explosion velocity and explosion radius.

Or you could do something similar to the gallente/caldari LP rewards: The caldari get the faction missiles, the minmatar get the faction rockets/Hams/Torps (similar how only gallente get faction blasters, but caldari only have faction rails).
Removing caldari rockets is probably not a good idea... so you could make minmatar missiles/rockets have reduced range, the same damage (as CN), but better explosion velocities/radii


Unfortunately, faction drones seem reserved for FW, and all races have them.

As far as hull mounted weapons, Gallente are unique, in that they now only use 1 weapon type.
They used to see some missile use (rodan ships), but basically not anymore (although there is the nemesis)
Yes, gallente use drones, but so do everyone else from cruisers to BS.
Moros lost its drones, Domi now competes with the Geddon. Myrm competes with proph, vexor always competed with the arby. Catalyst lost its drone, then added a specialized drone destroyer (amarr got one too).
Many of the T1 frigs lost their drones (they all used to have at least 5m3), except the tristan (turned into specialized drone boat) and the rookie hull.
Gallente don't even have a faction damage mod for Drones (we need FN drone damage amps and drone nav computers)

Perhaps an exception could be made, and gallente faction drones offered outside FW.

That still leaves the amarr... their T1 ship lineup has a few missile boats... their T2 khanid line has many... they've got 3 weapon systems... lasers, drones, and missiles.
Does this mean that they should offer 3 types? technically, we've got 3 factions there, Amarr, Ammatar, and Khanid.

Should the Khanid and ammatar navies be offering faction crystals and missiles, while the amarr navy offers faction amarr drones (side note, fix the drones, where Amarr drones just suck in comparison to the rest, and minmatar drones are a bit out of line in terms of baancing speed and damage)
Jen Ann Tonique
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-07-02 22:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jen Ann Tonique
I think it's safe to say that Tiericide has come far enough to clearly define who uses what weapons and how that might affect the future and that this is something that needs looked into.

One trap I don't want to fall into though is the "waiting game" where CCP wants to fix it all in one go ( and in turn takes 3 years to do it) instead of doing something that with little work could improve the quality of life for a lot of pilots right now. Of course the other things can be done, and should be looked into and yes, this could tie into new modules and such like was stated.

Jen Ann Tonique does not approve of this product and/or service. Any comments contained herin are to be taken not seriously and no person/s shall hold Jen Ann Tonique responsible for any damage real and/or imagined due to use or misuse of above comment. By reading this statement you agree to the above terms.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#39 - 2013-07-02 22:02:45 UTC
Jen Ann Tonique wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

It sounds like some Minnie FW pilots want a new outlet for their LP's....

On the surface, the creation of rustbucket missiles sounds alright, but I'd leave it up to the devs to decide if this will destroy game balance.




I can't speak for everyone, but I have no experience with FW myself. I want a better way to get ammo while I'm running missions. Selling ammo is usually not the best way to unload LPs, at least if you care about making ISK.


When your unloading several million LP's, item movement rate matters as much as isk/LP.

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