Ships & Modules

NOES tbh, T3's aren't SUPPOSED to be better at specific roles than specific role ships. This is where the wonderful balance Eve machine get it's free ticket.

Command T3's being better than Command ships THIS is unbalance at the higher level, just take a close look witch skills are needed to put your ass in some command ship.
Who wants to skill so much time for a silly ship when T3 doe better?

Any dedicated role ship should be better at his primary role than any T3. Now, is it what happens? -sure not
Balance isn't the strong point in any mmo and CCP is not an exception for this, they can take it to another level unknown at unbalance university (see hybrids and all the duc tape they're trying to put on but keep them crappy at the end while buffing projectiles)

If any decent fit for med sized wepons means 70km sniping then make it happen for tengu/drakes also, if that means cut the 10% speed for 5%, then do it.

Drake fires (faction) missiles about as far as an arty cane shoots Tremor.
Tengu (range bonused sub) shoots missiles about as far as a Muninn (range bonused ship) shoots Tremor.

670 dps is the gold standard for PVE?

Regardless of the quality of the Tengu it is the subsystems that require balancing, even the Tengu has weak subs, Rail Tengu anyone or an ECM Tengu, it is a specific group of tengu subsystems and resulting fits that seem overpowered.

I only fly the Proteus and happily use it for Missions, maybe it does not have mach speed completion times but it is fun to fly and well suited to missions against enemies like Serpentis, who needs massive range when you are damped down to minimal lock range, and when I am in range I am doing close to 1000DPS.

It is specific subsystems throughout the T3 line up that need buffing.

Regarding the Proteus: -

CPU Efficiency Gate, barring some multi warfare link fits, it’s not really much use and even then Info Warfare is pants anyway. I would suggest this swaps a High for a mid and gives 5mbit drone bandwidth and bay per level, this enables a Drone Proteus with a full complement of drones but requires three specific subsystems. The CPU also may be usefully put towards drone upgrades.

Dissonic encoding Platform - At first glance looks good but the tracking bonus in no way makes up for the Drone bay the Hybrid Propulsion Armature gets. A further 5% bonus to falloff or optimal would make this more useable.

Gravitational Capacitor, slower than the localised injectors with no cap advantage it’s only benefit is that it gives an extra mid. The Tengu version is 15m/s faster. This sub should be faster than the localised injectors if it was close to Deimos speed say 195m/s (Deimos is now 208m/s) then it would be more useful.

Wake limiter - Sounds good but this subsystem is really slow and has no cap advantage. If this had the bonus to Microwarpdrive capacitor Usage that the Thorax gets then this may see some use. However note that all the other T3’s have the Fuel catalyst that I would prefer to replace this.


I was really hoping that with the Hybrid ship buff that they would also look at changes to some of the prop subs at least as it is it is likely to be slower than those new Tier 3 battlecruisers.

The Legion and Loki have some similar problems but I am not as familiar so will not comment, so no I would not necessarily nerf the Tengu but buff other subsystems even the Tengu’s bad ones.

HM's really do need a nerf, they deal too much damage for being a capless weapon with such absurd range on BC/Cruiser hulls.

Either nerf the damage, or nerf the range (or add cap usage ).

FYI, the legion is the best T3 cruiser for incursions thanks to awesome damage projection that a sleipnir can't even match. On the other hand, I think the assault legion sub needs a buff. I'm routing for a 7.5% increase in EM missile dmg per sub level... Oh yeah.

The Macharel moves faster, tanks more and deals more damage.

Why should a T3 using hyper advanced ancient alien technology be inferior to a plain ol bland pirate ship, and then still be nerfed? You're kidding right?

SO many ships can outpace 670 dps.. and to get a 900 dps tank stable with that kind of damage you have to have some serious isk invested in the ship (billion +).

I really don't get people who think the Tengu is overpowered. The only instance where this may make some sense is compared to the other T3s, but that's because they need a buff, the Tengu doesn't need less power. For the price // skill requirements it's in the perfect spot now.



Max out and pimp out any of the other high end mission running ships like you just did for the Tengu, and they will easily be on par with it. For significantly less ISK, with less risk. Also, with a bigger tank. Possibly slower, although not on the mach.

Nothing is wrong with the Tengu. Maybe reduce HML range a bit, but even that won't really change that much. Other T3s need a buff.



What difference does it make if it's a cruiser or a battleship?

Mach moves faster, is less agile but in pve that means nothing. Costs LESS to pimp out well. Does more damage, and tanks more. In PvP, their cap is extremely vulnerable compared to a battleships, and the tengu especially is incredily weak. I love to solo around for fun mostly in wormholes and anytime I've lost a tengu it's because of cap draining ships. Nothing to do but gg at that.

Why should a ship with just slightly less skill requirements cost SO much more to max out, and even then be quite a level inferior to even T2s and basic pirate ships?

It boggles my mind how people really can think T3s are overpowered. In many ways, they are underpowered.

no im not. 670 dps at any range is huge for cruiser/BC sized hulls. i am not comparing the Tengu to battleships/marauders in pve.

Noes, why? -because you can just swap weapon system and do serious dmg at over 100km

Swap blasters for rails on proteus and feel the pain. -have to test it with next SISI changes, has the diemost.

What i've learned here:

When arguing for buffs, compare everything to projectiles.
When arguing for nerfs, compare everything to hybrids.

The latter is now even more potent since it's a moving goal-post.