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Can we turn off the new jump animation?

First post First post First post
Author
Barron Hammerstrike
Medusa Nova Mining And Trade
#941 - 2013-06-29 02:52:38 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
(losing the horizon is how John-John [JFK's son] crashed his private jet and died)


I thought it was the Illuminati. Not to derail the thread,but it's crazy to think who would be the US president right now had he lived. Like my shiny tinfoil hat? Now-- as you were.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#942 - 2013-06-29 03:13:31 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
cheese monkey wrote:
The fact that this hasn't been dealt with figuratively blows me away.

I think this is another example of how the CSM is pointless.


I am sorry you feel that way but amazingly a LOT of us did mention during the camapigns the we were neither devs nor programmers. We represent you, we did that, the proof is CCP showed up in this thread to answer you.

Can the CSM 'make' things happen? No

sorry if you were under the mistaken impression that we could.

We advise, we represent . . .

m


And not just troll? I have a CSM on ignore because that's what he does..

That's not representing players on an issue that needs to be addressed, that's wasting bandwidth.

If CSMs are but glorified titles without any teeth, why do they even exist as "player representatives"? They're not getting back to the players on the issues that matter, nor representing players on these types of issues...that make people physically sick ingame even.


_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#943 - 2013-06-29 03:20:14 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Okay, I was with you up until this point.

Quote:
Research done at the University of Minnesota had students play Halo for less than an hour, and found that up to 50 percent felt sick afterwards.


Does this in any way actually strike you as factual?

Really?

It makes you wonder what the cafeteria was serving for lunch that day, because the rest of the world doesn't seem to have that issue.


Actually with 3D games if you haven't adapted to a 3D environment, yes you can get quite sick.

Take someone who hasn't played any video game and put him in one, it will be a dizzy experience. Same happens with virtual reality glasses, despite a player has played many 3D games.

Just because a game exists doesn't mean the human brain is accustom to it. Took millions of years for man to adapt to his environment, and video games has existed for less than 40 years.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

AutumnWind1983
Reboot Required
#944 - 2013-06-29 03:23:21 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:

The transition effectively serves as a visual filler while all of this is going on behind the scenes, and is generated client side with no impact on the performance of the server at all. The time taken only depends on the server starting and ending the move between systems, which doesn't care about the client at all.

Simply adding the ability to "turn it off" is a cop-out, and leaves us in the position where we have a sub-optimal animation in game that some people are unhappy with and choose not to use. The jump transition, much like the warp tunnel, is here to stay as a replacement for loading bars, and therefore it has to be good for everyone, and has to function as intended.

We will stress though, that we hear your concerns and we're in the process of exploring various avenues for resolving them that include work on the camera and work on the animation itself to smooth it out and alter how it flashes and scrolls, however this is something that will take time and won't happen overnight.


Fine. Then give us a black screen. If it is actively harming your users' expereince let us cut it off. You're response is insulting and infuriating.

James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org

Li Tiger
Deep Space Resources Ltd.
#945 - 2013-06-29 07:03:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I quite like the new jump animation thingy.

Of course I also remember when CCP proved their hatred and contempt for the players by dooming EVE to die within a couple of months by changing the font.
Thanks a lot for your support of player base!

What matchless contempt to show. How on earth could anyone have voted for you. It's damn beyond my comprehension?!?

But good for you it straight in the eye at you and there is - as said (if you read some of the thread) no one wants to take your new shiny eye-candy from you, maybe you could then strain yourself up to support a off option!
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#946 - 2013-06-29 07:57:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I quite like the new jump animation thingy.

Of course I also remember when CCP proved their hatred and contempt for the players by dooming EVE to die within a couple of months by changing the font.


Can you do anything else but troll here?
If not, put a sock in it.
Kyra Quinn
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#947 - 2013-06-29 08:00:01 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Okay, I was with you up until this point.

Quote:
Research done at the University of Minnesota had students play Halo for less than an hour, and found that up to 50 percent felt sick afterwards.


Does this in any way actually strike you as factual?

Really?

It makes you wonder what the cafeteria was serving for lunch that day, because the rest of the world doesn't seem to have that issue.


I highly doubt that 50% is on par but I can attest to the whole 3D shooter motion sickness phenomena. I'm fine when playing MMO's or "normal" games but when I try a shooter on our Xbox it can make me feel queasy. Not all do it but some most definitely have that effect.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#948 - 2013-06-29 08:14:36 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I quite like the new jump animation thingy.

Of course I also remember when CCP proved their hatred and contempt for the players by dooming EVE to die within a couple of months by changing the font.


Can you do anything else but troll here?
If not, put a sock in it.

To be fair it's really hard to resist when you read about people being such weaklings or act like every minor game change destroyed their game. I'm certain it truly sucks for the affected people and it's fair to ask for the animation to be looked at and try to be improved upon. It's just that there is a limit to what normal people can sympathise with or even take seriously for that matter and it's truly hilarious to see some people being such drama queens about it.
Li Tiger
Deep Space Resources Ltd.
#949 - 2013-06-29 08:57:33 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
It's here to stay get used to it.


Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I quite like the new jump animation thingy.

Of course I also remember when CCP proved their hatred and contempt for the players by dooming EVE to die within a couple of months by changing the font.


Can you do anything else but troll here?
If not, put a sock in it.

To be fair it's really hard to resist when you read about people being such weaklings or act like every minor game change destroyed their game. I'm certain it truly sucks for the affected people and it's fair to ask for the animation to be looked at and try to be improved upon. It's just that there is a limit to what normal people can sympathise with or even take seriously for that matter and it's truly hilarious to see some people being such drama queens about it.
Normally I never answer obviously in troll attempt, but by reviewing your real lack of empathy and human understanding, I had just come up with an answer when I really feel sorry for you. You need some help - maybe a psychologist can help!
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#950 - 2013-06-29 10:13:23 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
To be fair it's really hard to resist when you read about people being such weaklings or act like every minor game change destroyed their game.


Yeah, Blizzard thought so too when they went on a massive ban of players on their forums for "trolling" (the catch all excuse to rid people). See all those "Deleted by..." posts littering their general forums? Banned players.

Now surrounded by but yes-men (and the agenda promoters that helped to create that environment), the devs are left to scope other sites for more balanced info and suggestions -- as those players the agenda promoters got banned actually want to help the game without the strings, and just post elsewhere.

Sometimes when you get too hardened you can hurt the game by burying the head in the sand, too.

Living under siege creates a game that is influenced by that mentality, and riddled with as many bullet holes.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Maybelater Headache
Doomheim
#951 - 2013-06-29 10:15:29 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
We represent you, we did that, the proof is CCP showed up in this thread to answer you.


You can't possibly be serious.
Yusef Brion
Big Yellow Pidgeon Inc.
#952 - 2013-06-29 11:46:18 UTC
I can't even look at the screen when I'm jumping anymore. Please, just give us the option to turn this graphic nightmare off.

I would also like to request that you remove the auto-scan when we land in a new system. I don't mind the matrix, but at least wait until I ask for a scan to run before you dirty up the beautiful backgrounds.

All we want are options.

The more I read the forums over the years, the more I swear. To god. That the typos are intentional mistakes. Part o f the encryption.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#953 - 2013-06-29 14:00:26 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
cheese monkey wrote:
The fact that this hasn't been dealt with figuratively blows me away.

I think this is another example of how the CSM is pointless.


I am sorry you feel that way but amazingly a LOT of us did mention during the camapigns the we were neither devs nor programmers. We represent you, we did that, the proof is CCP showed up in this thread to answer you.

Can the CSM 'make' things happen? No

sorry if you were under the mistaken impression that we could.

We advise, we represent . . .

m


To be honest, albeit this issue can be avoided by not watching the animation, it begs to wonder why do we even bother to do anything at all, beyond paying or not the subscription and playing or not the game.

The animation makes you sick? Then don't look at it. The result it's the same independently of what you do. CCP may "improve it" or not, the same as they released it despite all feedback, and with or without the CSM.

Sister Sophia
Doomheim
#954 - 2013-06-29 16:08:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Sister Sophia
Mike Azariah wrote:
We advise, we represent . . .


Thanks dude. I know some of you guys try and can't always get stuff to happen. That's cool. Smile

I can't find it right now, but that other post you made where you mentioned that even a few CCP employees gave some seriously critical feedback regarding the animation -- that post was really helpful and encouraging to read. Thanks. You get my vote the next time just for that. (Malcanis on the other hand ... not so much.)

... Yawn. Looking forward to getting a few more skills up to level 5 as this drama plays out.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#955 - 2013-06-29 16:52:28 UTC
Sister Sophia wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
We advise, we represent . . .


Thanks dude. I know some of you guys try and can't always get stuff to happen. That's cool. Smile

I can't find it right now, but that other post you made where you mentioned that even a few CCP employees gave some seriously critical feedback regarding the animation -- that post was really helpful and encouraging to read. Thanks. You get my vote the next time just for that. (Malcanis on the other hand ... not so much.)

... Yawn. Looking forward to getting a few more skills up to level 5 as this drama plays out.



Have it here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3170674#post3170674

Mike Azariah wrote:
There are even ccp devs who sympathize and have the same queasy issue.

Doing some asking around I came up with a suggestion from PC Gamer podcast #191 which recommends chewing raw ginger for game induced motion sickness. One dev (who I will NOT name and shame) shifts to the solar system map using f10. (all the other devs make fun of this one).

If you are asking for a rollback to the loading bar? Doubt it will happen.

Me, I like the animation.

m


Apparently there at CCP they find funny that someone may get motion sickness from seeing an animation. HTFU, won't you all whiney sissies? What?
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#956 - 2013-06-29 17:12:37 UTC
Yusef Brion wrote:
I can't even look at the screen when I'm jumping anymore. Please, just give us the option to turn this graphic nightmare off.

I would also like to request that you remove the auto-scan when we land in a new system. I don't mind the matrix, but at least wait until I ask for a scan to run before you dirty up the beautiful backgrounds.

All we want are options.

This.

I am getting nausea from every jump, because of the new cinematic jump sequence.

And then I am treated to annoyance with a mandatory automatic scan with all sorts of further cinematic and visual dren thrown in like a cherry on top of a pile of the latest half digested meal on the keyboard.

GIVE US SOME ******* OPTIONS TO TURN THIS **** ON ONLY WHEN WE WANT IT. It truly amazes me that you spent so much valuable developer time on this stuff. It is not necessary. I don't remember any outcry for changing the jump mechanics and visuals. I also don't remember any complaints centered around forcing us to make an automatic scan after every jump, and having some corny and intrusive matrix/tron radar wave interfere with our view of the new system.

For a sizeable portion of your customers the only immersion it adds is the possibility of their rl clothing or keyboards immersed in vomit. Why are you not urgently fixing this? Many people are having to remember to turn away from the screen at jumps. When it gets missed the nausea comes. If people find this game making them nauseous they will at some point stop playing. I'm already logging on less. You will lose customers if you don't get this fixed asap.

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Siresa Talesi
Doomheim
#957 - 2013-06-29 19:36:20 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
cheese monkey wrote:
The fact that this hasn't been dealt with figuratively blows me away.

I think this is another example of how the CSM is pointless.


I am sorry you feel that way but amazingly a LOT of us did mention during the camapigns the we were neither devs nor programmers. We represent you, we did that, the proof is CCP showed up in this thread to answer you.

Can the CSM 'make' things happen? No

sorry if you were under the mistaken impression that we could.

We advise, we represent . . .

m


I understand that you cannot "make things happen," but the fact remains that this is an urgent issue which CCP seems to be dragging their collective feet on, and at the very least we could use some more pressure from our representatives. We are busy here filling the forums as much as we can to draw attention to this issue, but it's only gotten us so far. We need you to contact those who can make things happen through whatever channels you have, and let CCP know that players are dissatisfied and that something has to be done about this immediately; they've already had far too long to correct something that is literally affecting the health of their customers. And not just contact them once and let it drop, but continue to contact them until they understand how severe of an issue this is! CCP needs to be told that their current plan of action for this issue is insufficient at best, and outright insulting at worst.

If you are already doing this, then thank you, but the attitude expressed in the Assembly Hall thread seemed to indicate that you had given up on any action being taken, and that your opinion of the animation meant that you had no intention of pursuing a change. If that impression is incorrect, then please let us know what you have been doing regarding this.

I wouldn't expect the likes of Malcanis to lift a finger on an issue like this, as his general contempt for the EVE playerbase at large is well known and documented through years of forum archives. It is the primary reason I believe he never should have been let near the CSM.

You however appeared different in your campaign. I liked your position, and identified with the person you claimed to be, so much that I took a chance and listed you as my number one vote. Please don't make me feel that I made a mistake in doing so.
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#958 - 2013-06-29 19:48:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Tronic
AutumnWind1983 wrote:
CCP Sisyphus wrote:

The transition effectively serves as a visual filler while all of this is going on behind the scenes, and is generated client side with no impact on the performance of the server at all. The time taken only depends on the server starting and ending the move between systems, which doesn't care about the client at all.

Simply adding the ability to "turn it off" is a cop-out, and leaves us in the position where we have a sub-optimal animation in game that some people are unhappy with and choose not to use. The jump transition, much like the warp tunnel, is here to stay as a replacement for loading bars, and therefore it has to be good for everyone, and has to function as intended.

We will stress though, that we hear your concerns and we're in the process of exploring various avenues for resolving them that include work on the camera and work on the animation itself to smooth it out and alter how it flashes and scrolls, however this is something that will take time and won't happen overnight.


Fine. Then give us a black screen. If it is actively harming your users' expereince let us cut it off. You're response is insulting and infuriating.


It's hilarious how they consider a loading bar a "sub-optimal animation". And the dabbling around the solution is funny too.

YES PEOPLE GET SICK.
NO WE DONT LIKE TURNING IT OFF.
BUT WE WILL FIX IT.
JUST IT WILL TAKE SOME TIME.
NO WE WONT LET THEM USE LOADING BARS TO MAKE THEM HAPPY AND NOT RUIN THEIR EXPERIENCE.
WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN THE EGO OF THE "ART" MAJORS AT CCP
GO AWAY.

Thats CCP response ^
Siresa Talesi
Doomheim
#959 - 2013-06-29 22:35:01 UTC
Jack Tronic wrote:
AutumnWind1983 wrote:
CCP Sisyphus wrote:

The transition effectively serves as a visual filler while all of this is going on behind the scenes, and is generated client side with no impact on the performance of the server at all. The time taken only depends on the server starting and ending the move between systems, which doesn't care about the client at all.

Simply adding the ability to "turn it off" is a cop-out, and leaves us in the position where we have a sub-optimal animation in game that some people are unhappy with and choose not to use. The jump transition, much like the warp tunnel, is here to stay as a replacement for loading bars, and therefore it has to be good for everyone, and has to function as intended.

We will stress though, that we hear your concerns and we're in the process of exploring various avenues for resolving them that include work on the camera and work on the animation itself to smooth it out and alter how it flashes and scrolls, however this is something that will take time and won't happen overnight.


Fine. Then give us a black screen. If it is actively harming your users' expereince let us cut it off. You're response is insulting and infuriating.


It's hilarious how they consider a loading bar a "sub-optimal animation". And the dabbling around the solution is funny too.

YES PEOPLE GET SICK.
NO WE DONT LIKE TURNING IT OFF.
BUT WE WILL FIX IT.
JUST IT WILL TAKE SOME TIME.
NO WE WONT LET THEM USE LOADING BARS TO MAKE THEM HAPPY AND NOT RUIN THEIR EXPERIENCE.
WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN THE EGO OF THE "ART" MAJORS AT CCP
GO AWAY.

Thats CCP response ^


Cross-posting this from the Assembly Hall thread, as it is relevant here as well:

My response to CCP's position: Not good enough.

They had feedback on the test server.

They've had almost four weeks live.

They even had their own devs reporting the problem.

And their respons is "we'll get to it eventually"?!?!

This has gone on too long already; CCP's neglect and indifference to the early reports is no excuse for this delay. CCP needs to understand the term "stopgap measure," and implement something until they can put in the fix that they want.

Everything CCP has said indicates that they are simply unwilling to fix this sooner because they don't want to remove their new art asset, and want to take their time to try to "optimize" it in some unsubstantiated hope that they can do so in a way that will remove all ill effects whle still preserving the animation. By insisting on this unneeded delay, they are putting the importance of their pretty animation above the physical well being of their customers, and frankly, that is more sickening than the jump sequence will ever be.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#960 - 2013-06-30 03:17:01 UTC
Siresa Talesi wrote:
This has gone on too long already; CCP's neglect and indifference to the early reports is no excuse for this delay. CCP needs to understand the term "stopgap measure," and implement something until they can put in the fix that they want.

Everything CCP has said indicates that they are simply unwilling to fix this sooner because they don't want to remove their new art asset, and want to take their time to try to "optimize" it in some unsubstantiated hope that they can do so in a way that will remove all ill effects whle still preserving the animation. By insisting on this unneeded delay, they are putting the importance of their pretty animation above the physical well being of their customers, and frankly, that is more sickening than the jump sequence will ever be.


A lesson here of what happens when they look at internal data so much they forget to even check their horizon...

...Flight 401 (the ghost flight)...

Quote:

23.40:38 CAM [Sound of altitude alert]
CAM-1 We can tell if that # # # # is down by looking down at our indices
CAM-1 I'm sure it's down, there's no way it couldnt help but be
CAM-2 I'm sure it is
CAM-1 It freefalls down
CAM-2 The tests didn't show that the lights worked
CAM-1 That 's right
CAM-2 It's a faulty light
23.41:05 CAM-2 Bob, this # # # # just won't come out
CAM-1 Allright leave it there
CAM-3 I don't see it down there
Huh?
CAM-3 I don't see it
CAM-1 You can't see that indis ... for the nosewheel ah, there's a place in there you can look and see if they're lined up
CAM-3 I know, a little like a telescope
CAM-1 Yeah
CAM-3 Well...
CAM-1 It's not lined up?
CAM-3 I can't see it, it's pitch dark and I throw the little light I get ah nothing
23.41:31 CAM-4 Wheel-well lights on?
CAM-3 Pardon?
CAM-4 Wheel-well lights on?
CAM-3 Yeah wheel well lights always on if the gear's down
CAM-1 Now try it
23.41:40 APP Eastern, ah 401 how are things comin' along out there?
23.41:44 RDO-1 Okay, we'd like to turn around and come, come back in
CAM-1 Clear on left?
CAM-2 Okay
23.41:47 APP Eastern 401 turn left heading one eight zero
23.41:50 CAM-1 Huh?
23.41:51 RDO-1 One eighty
23.42:05 CAM-1 What?
23.42:07 CAM-2 We're still at two thousand right?
23.42:09 CAM-1 Hey, what's happening here?
23.42:10 CAM [Sound of six beeps similar to radio altimeter increasing in rate]
23.42:12 [Sound of impact]


History is littered by so many who feel they're so right and infallible. Their cause so just and so overconfident it could never happen.

(The above is the reason why I'll never support industry policing itself -- Tunnel vision).

The problem here is what those FLT 401 pilots were doing, so lost in trying to fix a light. Here, CCP can see the data, the data is showing them yeah there's an issue, yet the use of those gates show it doesn't justify a quick fix as they're still being used by acceptable numbers. They put more trust into their stats than even the health of their players.

That's tunnel vision in a nutshell.

To fix it, human brains need a horizon. The swing and pull disorientates as there's no horizon to keep balance.

CCP can see it in action in WoW on the Shado-Pan daily with the dragon flight (they have the same pull animation that mimics the gate animation here), and see how important the horizon; elevation and looking forward plays in not making players sick (and that daily is much more complex, dragons are moving in a clockwise formation, in a slow circle, and at different levels where players can pick to jump). See back in WotLK players simply got tired of all the vehicle fights to the point Blizzard had to bribe players to enter (where the whole goodie bag bribe system began). They're careful in not rocking the boat with vehicles now, and you can see the results (it gets through QA it's fixed in days, not waiting on 50k poster threads with angry players).

It takes a swift kick in the pants to break that tunnel vision. Even Blizzard gets the message after awhile.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell