Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Yes, that is how it works. Of course you leave it running and when your cap sucking lasers bring your cap back to a level below his they begin to function again. Basically they always do their best to equalize the cap between ships, which means you are essentially using his available cap to help provide cap for your own weapons.

I agree, a visual que of some sort would be nice... although it's fairly easy to see if your cap takes a jump up whenever the NOS cycles.

Agreed, he just described a Neut.

However you're a bit off the mark in your rebuttal.

While it wasn't the only thing that made the original NOS mechanic overpowered, part of the picture was the fact that it DID generate cap from thin air.



You are correct that this was not the only issue... it literally had no limits.

Under the proposed change NOS absolutely have limits, but these are limits that favor smaller vessels over larger vessels... while the exact opposite holds true for Neuts (lets face it, small Neuts don't help a frigate at all vs. a BS).

But there already is one.

You expect Nos on cruisers and BCs? Wow, man... that's scarily deluded. WTF do you think these ships will be Nossing? Their effects on frigates are unquestionably nerfed and their effects on cruisers and BCs will be pretty much unchanged from today. The effects on BS are boosted, but given the low abundance of use of battleships within medium Nos range in typical combat environments, I really wouldn't count on getting much useful from medium Nos in that case. Overall, there will be clearly be less reason to fit Nos on cruisers and BCs. It's neuts all the way here after this nerf.

Yes, dedicated neuting ships will continue to use neuts, because they're better. The ambush heavy tackle Pilgrim that you described died as anything other than deeply niche years ago.

The BS Nossers that you describe as being "effective" will only be more effective against caps - and here they fall foul of the "dedicated neuters use neuts" dictum. If you're thinking about using BS against subcapitals, then you're mad, as heavy Nos is getting massively nerfed in these situations. If people don't use it today, which they don't, then they certainly won't use it in the future. I'm actually quite scared that you don't understand this point.

BS Nos being much more predictable? Hilarious! Yes, you can rely on it to have no effect 99% of the time! Predictably useless, yeah. Why do you want to nerf BS Nos so much? What about it is overpowered?



Please tell me you're not planning to use these against subcaps.

This is about Nos reliability but the quote above hasn't worked very well.

You're not thinking about in-game reality hard enough, you still seem to be stuck in a paper exercise. Your problems is that, every time, you simply assume that there will be a larger vessel for you to Nos, and that you will be fine. But PVP doesn't work like that, you frequently don't get to choose your opponents' composition, particularly when you have to commit to hard tackle range to land non-range-bonused small/medium Nos.

The point is really very simple. Complexity reduces predictability which reduces reliability. Adding the variable of ship size reduces the ease of prediction of the value of your cruiser-or-larger Nos and hence reduces its reliability.

For small Nos on frigates, sure, it's more reliable because nothing's smaller than you and you can expect your Nos to kick in sooner against larger stuff. But, you know, people might actually want to fly something larger than a frigate and maybe even use Nos on it. Again, you need to look beyond frigates.

It doesn't get much simpler than "If it's bigger I can almost always NOS it". Previously ship size (read raw amount of cap available) didn't matter one whit. Claims to the contrary show a clear lack of experience using NOS in combat situations.

Note: I'm not saying you have no combat experience, just not extensive experience with NOS in combat or NOS using fits.

The only thing even slightly complicated about this is when it comes to ships of the same class as your own, as then it comes down to ship fitting (which is no more difficult to figure out than it is currently).

If you really want to talk reality, you know as well as I do that anyone with even modest PVP experience will be picking their fights based on the capabilities of their ship (and gang)... not just blundering headlong and attacking vessels they will be at a disadvantage to.

But even in a situation where the tables are turned and you are the prey for a change, that's the nice thing about NOS. Even if you are in a situation where they won't help you for most of the battle you can run them anyway without harming yourself. You can't really do that with a Neut. Eventually at some point in that battle your NOS is probably going to do you some good (if you're not a complete idiot).

Note: This is one of the reasons why I personally am in favor of NOS having the same fitting requirements as Neuts, to facilitate swapping out to the appropriate module when needed. Although I'll admit that would usually require adjustments in your overall ship fit to get the most benefit out of going the other way.

I'm really not sure what part of "If they have more cap than I have it works" you find remotely complicated, but frankly I'm beginning not to care. It's more than a little silly.

I agree, but in fairness it's not as big a difference as you might think.

You need to not only compare how much cap the NOS draws in to the amount the Neut drains from you, but you also need to figure in how much cap the Neut burns just by activating it in your opponents vessel as well.

Except if at any point the Nos pulls ahead it stops working and the ships that use neuts the most are generally ones that aren't cap reliant.

i have been asking for capital nuets/nos (ewar mods that work on supercaps) for years!

To be fair its going to be buffed by this in blob fights.. Since nos against caps will almost always be good.