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0.0 ratting in Glass Sentry Domi technique

Author
Ron Heckel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-06-26 04:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ron Heckel
I just found this simple technique yesterday. And feel that it might worth sharing because I didn't see this technique online yet. So here we goes.

The basic idea is that after the Odyssey, Domi has with it an 10% optimal range and tracking speed bonus. And with it, striking out 170~190km with any T2 sentry drones other than Garde II becomes fairly easy. And the rats in 0.0 sites, most of them will not come aggro you if you are very far away from them(I'm in Angel space, and tested it out on Forlorn hub and forlorn rally point, they both work this way. For other sites, rats will aggro, but if you are 170km away from them, they won't be able to do any real damage). So if you warp within 100km(farthest option), and then micro jump away to a proper position, the rat won't efficiently aggro you and you won't really need any defence. That's why a glassy fit works.
So here is the basic fitting. You can vary it based on your situation. The only requirement is that you can target from at 140+km away, and hit the rats from this range too.

Domi
High slot
Drone Link Augmentor II *5 (Drone control range boost)
Medium 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction *1 (Drone repairing, in case it took agro too quick)

Mid Slot
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Unit *3 (Drone optimal range & tracking boost) II*3 (Well, this is merely my fit to keep cap stable. really not necessary, can change)
Micro Jump Drive *1(To jump to the snipe position)
After Burner II(or Gist version, to get basic moving and evasive maneuver ability when necessary)

Low Slot
Drone Damage Amplifier II *4(For higher DPS output)
Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation *3(longer targeting range, I can't use T2 yet for my low SP. Change it if you nee

Rig Slot
Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Ionic Field Projetor I *1~2
(Personally I can hit out 173km with this fit, and with minimum upgrade I can hit out 180km with 650 Bouncer II dps.)

OK. Now here is the thing. You warp in, sit about 120km from most of the rats or Micro Jump to a proper position(150~180km). Release your sentry drones(For me they're bouncer II) and start sniping. The rats will react and agro your drones. Recall any drone if it is aggroed and release it instantly. Keep doing this and the rats will futilely keep aggroing your drones until they're all dead. They won't aggro you because there is basically no dps output or ewar output from you. And that's why I didn't use any tanking module.

But one thing I think is necessary to be noted. That is even if you have good gun skills and can put projectile or Laser on your boat that can snipe at 100+km with sufficient efficiency. Don't do that. Because the rats might aggro you like your drones for your DPS out put. And you can not put your boat in your drone bay like you do for your drones, :P.

Based on your fit and skills. You'll have a constant 500~700 DPS output from your drones. And you won't have to worry frigs and other tracking issues because you'll snipe all the frigs when they're 80+km away. And no rat will get as close as 20km from you when you'll suffer some tracking issue.

OK. The above is my experience. Good luck ratting.
Gell Deraison
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-06-26 06:00:34 UTC
Erm... Is this a joke?
...Why?
My Dominix does better DPS than that, and it still has a tank...
Ron Heckel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-06-26 06:30:00 UTC
Gell Deraison wrote:
Erm... Is this a joke?
...Why?
My Dominix does better DPS than that, and it still has a tank...


Well, the point is 120km long range sniping. And thus you won't get any aggro. The dps is more stable as well. As no rat can get near to cause tracking problem.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#4 - 2013-06-26 06:37:34 UTC
Gell Deraison wrote:
Erm... Is this a joke?
...Why?
My Dominix does better DPS than that, and it still has a tank...

With 4 drone damage modules Bouncers output about 700dps so it's as good as it gets. And not bad at all, considering >150km optimal range.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-06-26 06:47:03 UTC
I use the following setup for null ratting/missions/etc, which does need Genolution Core implants.

[Dominix, Basic - Sansha (PVE)]
Shadow Serpentis Large Armor Repairer
Damage Control II
Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Micro Jump Drive
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Tungsten Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Tungsten Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Tungsten Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Tungsten Charge L
Improved Cloaking Device II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Curator II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Garde II x5

Depending on Whether or not you need the cloaking device you can reconfigure it without the faction armor rep and hardeners, and use T2 version. This stats will remain the same, the faction mods have the same attributes as T2, but frees up the cpu need for the cloak.

The Genolution Core implans and faction mods add around 50M to the price compared to a full T2 setup.

It's does around 700 dps at km 60-70km (Curator/CN Thorium) and 870 at 45km (Garde/CN Plutonium), has 425 dps cap stable tank (eft stats). It also has the mobility of both micro warp and jump drive, with the added safety of having a cloak and damage control fitted.

If you want to go "glass cannon" you can replace the damage control with a third drone damage amp, the micro jump drives ensures you can dictate range and never allow anything to get within 50km range, which makes the damage control kind of pointless.

The only reason to fit the damage control is to add extra safety right after warp in, eg. in ded sites, where you need to align before you can use the micro jump drive, which makes you vulnerable to scram. It can also add some protection if you make a bad jump, and need to wait for the micro jump drive cooldown to run out.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Ron Heckel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-06-26 06:53:33 UTC
dexington wrote:
I use the following setup for null ratting/missions/etc, which does need Genolution Core implants.

[Dominix, Basic - Sansha (PVE)]
Shadow Serpentis Large Armor Repairer
Damage Control II
Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener
Shadow Serpentis Armor EM Hardener
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Micro Jump Drive
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Tungsten Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Tungsten Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Tungsten Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Tungsten Charge L
Improved Cloaking Device II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Curator II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Garde II x5

Depending on Whether or not you need the cloaking device you can reconfigure it without the faction armor rep and hardeners, and use T2 version. This stats will remain the same, the faction mods have the same attributes as T2, but frees up the cpu need for the cloak.

The Genolution Core implans and faction mods add around 50M to the price compared to a full T2 setup.

It's does around 700 dps at km 60-70km (Curator/CN Thorium) and 870 at 45km (Garde/CN Plutonium), has 425 dps cap stable tank (eft stats). It also has the mobility of both micro warp and jump drive, with the added safety of having a cloak and damage control fitted.

If you want to go "glass cannon" you can replace the damage control with a third drone damage amp, the micro jump drives ensures you can dictate range and never allow anything to get within 50km range, which makes the damage control kind of pointless.

The only reason to fit the damage control is to add extra safety right after warp in, eg. in ded sites, where you need to align before you can use the micro jump drive, which makes you vulnerable to scram. It can also add some protection if you make a bad jump, and need to wait for the micro jump drive cooldown to run out.


Well, the interesting part of my technique is that if you sit out 110+km from rats and don't use turrets, they will NOT aggro you. And that's what all the glassy part is about. I just sit around idly and let the drones to do the dirty work. With 2 omni-tracking, bouncer's optimal can be 120+km. With more, the optimal will be even better. And I'm not with perfect Skill set yet. As hmskreclk said, with perfect skills, a glassy sentry platform can hit out over 150km optimal with an impressive 700dps.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2013-06-26 07:03:48 UTC
[Dominix, PVE snipe ratter]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Large Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II

Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ionic Field Projector I


Bouncer II x5
Garde II x5
Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Bouncer II x2

700dps out to 150km, 473 hps emergengy tank against Angels.

.

dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-06-26 07:12:25 UTC
Ron Heckel wrote:
Well, the interesting part of my technique is that if you sit out 110+km from rats and don't use turrets, they will NOT aggro you.


You can do that in a navy vexor, it's faster, smaller and cheaper then a battleship, and fields 5 sentry drones. If you don't need the tank of a battleship, there is no reason to fly it, even less so in null or low-sec.

Battleships are easier to fit, but with the new prices they are going to be a lot more expensive.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Gell Deraison
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-06-26 07:16:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Gell Deraison
Ron Heckel wrote:
Gell Deraison wrote:
Erm... Is this a joke?
...Why?
My Dominix does better DPS than that, and it still has a tank...


Well, the point is 120km long range sniping. And thus you won't get any aggro. The dps is more stable as well. As no rat can get near to cause tracking problem.
Then at least stick four drone damage amps on, and get rid of the sentry damage rig. Then at least you're getting better drone DPS in exchange your glass-fit. At the moment you're not really gaining anything to justify moving out that far. In hubs and whatnot you can just tank the damage, and put out about the same drone DPS and have over 150 extra DPS from guns.
Tracking shouldn't really be much of an issue at half that range either.

Why not a targeting-range sebo instead of the signal amplifier, too?

The 'don't use guns, let the drones get aggro' thing is just bizarre to me. It just seems you are optimising it to take no damage, but the point of ratting is to kill things to get ISK, and to do that you optimise your damage.
Ron Heckel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-06-26 07:48:48 UTC
dexington wrote:
Ron Heckel wrote:
Well, the interesting part of my technique is that if you sit out 110+km from rats and don't use turrets, they will NOT aggro you.


You can do that in a navy vexor, it's faster, smaller and cheaper then a battleship, and fields 5 sentry drones. If you don't need the tank of a battleship, there is no reason to fly it, even less so in null or low-sec.

Battleships are easier to fit, but with the new prices they are going to be a lot more expensive.


Vexor don't have that range and tracking bonus like Domi does. Not sure if similar technique works. But IMO Navy Vexor is for close range speed tanking(not perfect) heavy platform not sniping sentry platform.
Ron Heckel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-06-26 07:58:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ron Heckel
Gell Deraison wrote:
Ron Heckel wrote:
Gell Deraison wrote:
Erm... Is this a joke?
...Why?
My Dominix does better DPS than that, and it still has a tank...


Well, the point is 120km long range sniping. And thus you won't get any aggro. The dps is more stable as well. As no rat can get near to cause tracking problem.
Then at least stick four drone damage amps on, and get rid of the sentry damage rig. Then at least you're getting better drone DPS in exchange your glass-fit. At the moment you're not really gaining anything to justify moving out that far. In hubs and whatnot you can just tank the damage, and put out about the same drone DPS and have over 150 extra DPS from guns.
Tracking shouldn't really be much of an issue at half that range either.

Why not a targeting-range sebo instead of the signal amplifier, too?

The 'don't use guns, let the drones get aggro' thing is just bizarre to me. It just seems you are optimising it to take no damage, but the point of ratting is to kill things to get ISK, and to do that you optimise your damage.


The point is that in close range combat, there will always be close rats and you'll have to switch drones often and even use Garde (not perfect DMG type, thus lower actual DPS)sometimes. And that will reduce your actual DPS. The long range sniping will suffer from some loss in ideal DPS output, but it will make the combat more stable thus giving an practical higher DPS output. And that's what I mean by constant DPS output.

As for the fitting part. It might not be perfect I know. neither do I have a perfect skill nor do I have a lot of fitting experience. After all, I am only a semi-new pilot with half year experience in EVE. I did this post because I found a way to do stable combat with long range sniping. It's for some brainstorming purpose, as so far many fits and techniques are all focusing on ideal DPS and close range tanking.
Ron Heckel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-06-26 08:06:38 UTC
Ron Heckel wrote:
Gell Deraison wrote:
Ron Heckel wrote:
Gell Deraison wrote:
Erm... Is this a joke?
...Why?
My Dominix does better DPS than that, and it still has a tank...


Well, the point is 120km long range sniping. And thus you won't get any aggro. The dps is more stable as well. As no rat can get near to cause tracking problem.
Then at least stick four drone damage amps on, and get rid of the sentry damage rig. Then at least you're getting better drone DPS in exchange your glass-fit. At the moment you're not really gaining anything to justify moving out that far. In hubs and whatnot you can just tank the damage, and put out about the same drone DPS and have over 150 extra DPS from guns.
Tracking shouldn't really be much of an issue at half that range either.

Why not a targeting-range sebo instead of the signal amplifier, too?

The 'don't use guns, let the drones get aggro' thing is just bizarre to me. It just seems you are optimising it to take no damage, but the point of ratting is to kill things to get ISK, and to do that you optimise your damage.


The point is that in close range combat, there will always be close rats and you'll have to switch drones often and even use Garde (not perfect DMG type, slower)sometimes. And that will reduce your actual DPS. The long range sniping will suffer from some loss in ideal DPS output, but it will make the combat more stable thus giving an practical higher DPS output. And that's what I mean by constant DPS output.

As for the fitting part. It might not be perfect I know. neither do I have a perfect skill nor do I have a lot of fitting experience. After all, I am only a semi-new pilot with half year experience in EVE. I did this post because I found a way to do stable combat with long range sniping. It's for some brainstorming purpose, as so far many fits and techniques are all focusing on ideal DPS and close range tanking.

Ron Heckel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-06-26 08:09:25 UTC
Roime wrote:
[Dominix, PVE snipe ratter]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Large Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II
Medium Remote Armor Repair System II

Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ionic Field Projector I


Bouncer II x5
Garde II x5
Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Bouncer II x2

700dps out to 150km, 473 hps emergengy tank against Angels.


Problem is that you still need signal amplifier or signal booster to target that far.
Willie Horton
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-06-26 08:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Willie Horton
Ron Heckel wrote:
Roime wrote:
[Dominix, PVE snipe ratter]

Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ionic Field Projector I



Problem is that you still need signal amplifier or signal booster to target that far.


Large Ionic Field Projector I -This ship modification is designed to increase a ship's targeting range at the expense of shields. ( targeting range bonus 25.00% ).

He have 3 of those so I guess he dont have problem with targeting.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-06-26 08:19:59 UTC  |  Edited by: dexington
Ron Heckel wrote:
Vexor don't have that range and tracking bonus like Domi does.


Don't matter you don't need it, you can use the mids on omni tracking links.

Ron Heckel wrote:
But IMO Navy Vexor is for close range speed tanking(not perfect) heavy platform not sniping sentry platform.


It's not like you have invented the wheel, people have been snipping with sentries for ages. The Ishtar has been a very popular sentry platform, the new vexor can do exactly the same as the ishtar.

The sentry bonus to the domi just means you don't have to use two mids on tracking links, which is basically why the fit you posted have 3 unused mid-slots. All you are doing i taking the biggest and more expensive ship, because it's the easiest to fit, and doing the same other people are doing at one-third of the price.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Ron Heckel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-06-26 08:26:54 UTC
dexington wrote:
Ron Heckel wrote:
Vexor don't have that range and tracking bonus like Domi does.


Don't matter you don't need it, you can use the mids on omni tracking links.

Ron Heckel wrote:
But IMO Navy Vexor is for close range speed tanking(not perfect) heavy platform not sniping sentry platform.


It's not like you have invented the wheel, people have been snipping with sentries for ages. The Ishtar has been a very popular sentry platform, the new vexor can do exactly the same as the ishtar.

The sentry bonus to the domi just means you don't have to use two mids on tracking links, which is basically why the fit you posted have 3 unused mid-slots. All you are doing i taking the biggest and more expensive ship, because it's the easiest to fit, and doing the same other people are doing at one-third of the price.


Vexor Navy even with four Omni track II can only attack with Bouncer II at 111,698m. With curator the range is even smaller. And no, it is not good enough for this technique.

The reason I feel that Vexor Navy is better for heavy drone is that the new bonus is not given to range, but to drone velocity, which is direly need by heavy. Anyway, It's my own opinion.
Ron Heckel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-06-26 08:28:32 UTC
Willie Horton wrote:
Ron Heckel wrote:
Roime wrote:
[Dominix, PVE snipe ratter]

Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Ionic Field Projector I



Problem is that you still need signal amplifier or signal booster to target that far.


Large Ionic Field Projector I -This ship modification is designed to increase a ship's targeting range at the expense of shields. ( targeting range bonus 25.00% ).

He have 3 of those so I guess he dont have problem with targeting.


Ahh, the rigging~
Nice, thanks~
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-06-26 08:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: dexington
Ron Heckel wrote:
Vexor Navy even with four Omni track II can only attack with Bouncer II at 111,698m. With curator the range is even smaller. And no, it is not good enough for this technique.


Do you honestly believe a npc battleship can hit a moving cruiser with 135m signature at 111km or 75km or even 50km for that matter?

Ron Heckel wrote:
And no, it is not good enough for this technique.


it's not the technique, it's you...

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Ron Heckel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-06-26 08:48:58 UTC
dexington wrote:
Ron Heckel wrote:
Vexor Navy even with four Omni track II can only attack with Bouncer II at 111,698m. With curator the range is even smaller. And no, it is not good enough for this technique.


Do you honestly believe a npc battleship can hit a moving cruiser with 135m signature at 111km or 75km or even 50km for that matter?

Ron Heckel wrote:
And no, it is not good enough for this technique.


it's not the technique, it's you...


You talks like they won't move and there are no cruiser and frigates in the rat. Anyway, you are free to try that. And do I have to remind you that Vexor navy worth around 80~90 mil, and a domi worth 120~130mil?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#20 - 2013-06-26 10:08:16 UTC
Ron Heckel wrote:
dexington wrote:
Ron Heckel wrote:
Vexor Navy even with four Omni track II can only attack with Bouncer II at 111,698m. With curator the range is even smaller. And no, it is not good enough for this technique.


Do you honestly believe a npc battleship can hit a moving cruiser with 135m signature at 111km or 75km or even 50km for that matter?

Ron Heckel wrote:
And no, it is not good enough for this technique.


it's not the technique, it's you...


You talks like they won't move and there are no cruiser and frigates in the rat. Anyway, you are free to try that. And do I have to remind you that Vexor navy worth around 80~90 mil, and a domi worth 120~130mil?


If you have rails, you can kill 1 frigate per gun salvo, and 1 frigate per drone salvo. I can kill 10 angel frigates in the time they close 20km if shooting at them from 70 with a dominix, or I can start the drones on cruisers, and let the guns kill them if its just 3 or 4.

The biggest advantage of gunnery to the domi pilot is reducing the overkill on frigates and thus vastly improving your applied dps - drones are horribly fussy to try splitfire with, and waaaaay overkill frigates, letting other stuff get close unnecessarily.

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