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Radial Menu - action mapping

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Trytan Blychllad
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2013-06-23 05:54:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Trytan Blychllad
My biggest gripe about the radial menu is where and where not it is used.

Overview | Big smilecheck, working as intended
Survey Scanner window | Sadno, I have to right click accordion
Drones | Oopsno, I have to pull my hair out to manage the drone UI
info icons | Cryno, right click, click what tab I want, right click another info icon (just clunky)
menu for any item while docked | Cryno, clunky right click accordion menu style (this menu isn't big, it only has 8 choices across 3 sections

So now we have two menu interfaces, the old accordion style and the new radial, with the default fallback being rightclick accordion.

If implementing a feature, atleast keep consistency. Make it all or nothing, not half-baked, see if it works proof of concepts.

It works, please expand the radial menu UI and port it to include all the old right click accordion menus.

Consistency
Consistency
Consistency
Lumi Leena
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#142 - 2013-06-23 20:09:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lumi Leena
CCP karkur wrote:
I wanted to check in with you guys, and see if how it was treating you

Pretty well, actually! :)

CCP karkur wrote:
  • Have you run into any objects in space that have no primary action but you wish they did?
POS storages (CHA, SMA, etc).
Quote:
  • Do you feel any objects are missing very commonly used actions (either as primary action, or in second layer).
Orca storages (SMB / FH).

Also an issue with the radial menu (though I'm not sure it's been fixed since the first deployment) is that you can't drag to sort locked targets anymore: trying to drag them will simply open the radial menu. Changing the radial menu shortcut to the middle mouse button works though.

Another thing is that you can't bring up the radial menu on the information text in the upper left (e.g. nearby celestial or the next autopilot node).
Morgan Le-Guin
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2013-06-23 22:18:49 UTC
My use of the radial menu has increased >100% since Odyssey. Keybinds are still preferable for speed and accuracy but every now and then I like the flavor the radial menu provides.

Issues:

  • Sometimes dragging the mouse up inadvertently increases my 'warp to' distance, causing me to slowboat, exposed, to the gate.


Wishlist:

  • An autopilot switch, even if buried a level. I use the warp-to-0 -> activate AP -> auto jump -> deactivate AP -> warp-to-0 method of long distance travel. (Though I realize not everyone uses this method)
  • D-Scan from the radial menu. Angle adjustment and scan range could work like the current 'distance' dragging method.. possibly adjusting both simultaneously based on X/Y axes.


Regardless, Thanks! Didn't expect to like this feature as much as I did.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#144 - 2013-06-23 23:10:52 UTC
Morgan Le-Guin wrote:
  • An autopilot switch, even if buried a level. I use the warp-to-0 -> activate AP -> auto jump -> deactivate AP -> warp-to-0 method of long distance travel. (Though I realize not everyone uses this method)
    • Did you know that you can right click the name of the next system in route (in the info panels) and there select "jump through stargate" and then it will warp you to the stargate at 0 and jump and then you just repeat every time you enter a new system (that's what I use when traveling alone).

    CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
    Morgan Le-Guin
    Federal Defense Union
    Gallente Federation
    #145 - 2013-06-23 23:45:58 UTC
    CCP karkur wrote:
    Morgan Le-Guin wrote:
  • An autopilot switch, even if buried a level. I use the warp-to-0 -> activate AP -> auto jump -> deactivate AP -> warp-to-0 method of long distance travel. (Though I realize not everyone uses this method)
    • Did you know that you can right click the name of the next system in route (in the info panels) and there select "jump through stargate" and then it will warp you to the stargate at 0 and jump and then you just repeat every time you enter a new system (that's what I use when traveling alone).

    Wow, thank you. I guess as a noob I had always assumed it would drop me 15km out. Learn something new every day. And also it seems warp-to-0 is automatic when jumping via the radial menu off of the overview. This is great.
    Warde Guildencrantz
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #146 - 2013-06-24 08:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz
    The only place i have found radial menu better than selected item was right clicking my target icons and having radial menu set to right click. Anything that gets my flight patterns closer to te slot activators and targets is good. For other cases, selected item is usually faster.

    One thing that i could see fixing this would be if i could simply press a key to open a radial menu on the selected item. This would mean i wouldnt have to move to right or left click the itemafter i have already done so for selecting it, and would mean i wouldnt have to move my mouse to the selected item window

    TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
    Jalequin
    Jalequin Corporation
    #147 - 2013-06-24 15:49:47 UTC
    Why was the 'snap to center' feature when clicking a radial option removed completely?


    Add it back as an option toggle so those that enjoyed it can still use it.

    Mass Tests Videos: http://j.mp/14PE0uz - June 14th http://j.mp/10Db6ry - May 16th http://j.mp/19uIPJM - April 11th
    Jurius Doctor
    Iron.Guard
    Fraternity.
    #148 - 2013-06-24 17:53:26 UTC
    CCP karkur wrote:
    Hi all,

    I hope we are all liking Odyssey and all it brings, and of course that we are all using the new Radial Menu Smile

    I wanted to check in with you guys, and see if how it was treating you and if you have any comments on the actions we have in it.Smile
    • Have you run into any objects in space that have no primary action but you wish they did?
    • Are there objects that you wished had a different primary action?
    • Do you feel any objects are missing very commonly used actions (either as primary action, or in second layer).


    We have put a lot of thought into the Radial Menu actions and are fairly happy with it as it is today. We do recognized that we might have missed some actions and would like to hear your thoughts, and then evaluate if we should make some minor changes Smile

    Edit: this is not thread about you wanting to disable it, it's already possible to increase the delay and bind it to a different key so it really shouldn't get in your way if you don't want it Smile


    I have been using the Radial Menu (RM) quite extensively, as I find it a little more intuitive than some of the key bindings, and though I am the sort to rely heavily on shortcuts and macros in other games, I have not done so here except for the standard Neocom menu items and targeting functions.

    That said, there are some improvements I would like to suggest for the RM which I think could improve the RM's human response:

    i. Function Escalations: At present, the radial menu pulls different values and function calls depending on the sprite targeted when the menu is triggered. However, the ability to change the default values and metrics for those function calls still heavily depends on right-click context menus (such as changing the orbit distance of a drone from target, on the fly). If you could develop a system of bound-key and mouse combinations to escalate/change the functions on the radial menu depending on type of action desired, that would be advantageous.

    (e.g. Pressing "alt" or "Ctrl" while holding left-click for radial menu over your ship might escalate "show info" to "view resistances" and produce a more concise view, which wouldn't require me to have the Fittings window taking up half of my viewable real-estate.)

    ii. Space Controls: As with above, presently you have to target specific sprites or MOBs to pull up different radial menus, but interacting with spatial markers, coordinates saved to personal, and accessing asteroid belts still rely on right-click context menus. Could you please design a radial menu for spatial interaction?

    iii. Numeric second-tier access to radial menus: I use my number pad a lot. Having the ability to map it separately for my radial menus would be fantastic.

    (e.g. Press "5" to bring up the radial menu, then 1-clockwise-through-2 to access the different radial compass icons, in combination with alt or ctrl keys, as above, for escalation of functions.)

    Just my $0.02.
    Xercodo
    Cruor Angelicus
    #149 - 2013-06-24 19:54:14 UTC
    Jurius Doctor wrote:
    CCP karkur wrote:
    Hi all,

    I hope we are all liking Odyssey and all it brings, and of course that we are all using the new Radial Menu Smile

    I wanted to check in with you guys, and see if how it was treating you and if you have any comments on the actions we have in it.Smile
    • Have you run into any objects in space that have no primary action but you wish they did?
    • Are there objects that you wished had a different primary action?
    • Do you feel any objects are missing very commonly used actions (either as primary action, or in second layer).


    We have put a lot of thought into the Radial Menu actions and are fairly happy with it as it is today. We do recognized that we might have missed some actions and would like to hear your thoughts, and then evaluate if we should make some minor changes Smile

    Edit: this is not thread about you wanting to disable it, it's already possible to increase the delay and bind it to a different key so it really shouldn't get in your way if you don't want it Smile


    I have been using the Radial Menu (RM) quite extensively, as I find it a little more intuitive than some of the key bindings, and though I am the sort to rely heavily on shortcuts and macros in other games, I have not done so here except for the standard Neocom menu items and targeting functions.

    That said, there are some improvements I would like to suggest for the RM which I think could improve the RM's human response:

    i. Function Escalations: At present, the radial menu pulls different values and function calls depending on the sprite targeted when the menu is triggered. However, the ability to change the default values and metrics for those function calls still heavily depends on right-click context menus (such as changing the orbit distance of a drone from target, on the fly). If you could develop a system of bound-key and mouse combinations to escalate/change the functions on the radial menu depending on type of action desired, that would be advantageous.

    (e.g. Pressing "alt" or "Ctrl" while holding left-click for radial menu over your ship might escalate "show info" to "view resistances" and produce a more concise view, which wouldn't require me to have the Fittings window taking up half of my viewable real-estate.)

    ii. Space Controls: As with above, presently you have to target specific sprites or MOBs to pull up different radial menus, but interacting with spatial markers, coordinates saved to personal, and accessing asteroid belts still rely on right-click context menus. Could you please design a radial menu for spatial interaction?

    iii. Numeric second-tier access to radial menus: I use my number pad a lot. Having the ability to map it separately for my radial menus would be fantastic.

    (e.g. Press "5" to bring up the radial menu, then 1-clockwise-through-2 to access the different radial compass icons, in combination with alt or ctrl keys, as above, for escalation of functions.)

    Just my $0.02.


    All of this, right here.

    The Drake is a Lie
    CCP Explorer
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #150 - 2013-06-24 20:01:10 UTC
    Morgan Le-Guin wrote:
    CCP karkur wrote:
    Morgan Le-Guin wrote:
  • An autopilot switch, even if buried a level. I use the warp-to-0 -> activate AP -> auto jump -> deactivate AP -> warp-to-0 method of long distance travel. (Though I realize not everyone uses this method)
    • Did you know that you can right click the name of the next system in route (in the info panels) and there select "jump through stargate" and then it will warp you to the stargate at 0 and jump and then you just repeat every time you enter a new system (that's what I use when traveling alone).
    Wow, thank you. I guess as a noob I had always assumed it would drop me 15km out. Learn something new every day. And also it seems warp-to-0 is automatic when jumping via the radial menu off of the overview. This is great.
    I actually either use the "jump" button from overview (it warps you to 0 or approaches if you are within minimum warp range and then jumps) or use the 'D' combat shortcut / hotkey.

    Easiest I find is to have a travel tab on the overview only with stargates, sort it by icon (that way the next stargate in the route is at the top, regardless of name or distance) and keep the input focus on the overview. After each jump I press arrow down to select the next gate and then 'D' to "warp to 0 and jump".

    Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
    Mizhir
    Devara Biotech
    #151 - 2013-06-24 20:06:57 UTC
    CCP Explorer wrote:
    Morgan Le-Guin wrote:
    CCP karkur wrote:
    Morgan Le-Guin wrote:
  • An autopilot switch, even if buried a level. I use the warp-to-0 -> activate AP -> auto jump -> deactivate AP -> warp-to-0 method of long distance travel. (Though I realize not everyone uses this method)
    • Did you know that you can right click the name of the next system in route (in the info panels) and there select "jump through stargate" and then it will warp you to the stargate at 0 and jump and then you just repeat every time you enter a new system (that's what I use when traveling alone).
    Wow, thank you. I guess as a noob I had always assumed it would drop me 15km out. Learn something new every day. And also it seems warp-to-0 is automatic when jumping via the radial menu off of the overview. This is great.
    I use dev hacks to instantly teleport to my desired destination.

    Fixed for you.

    ❤️️💛💚💙💜
    Vincent Athena
    Photosynth
    #152 - 2013-06-24 20:24:57 UTC
    CCP Explorer wrote:
    Morgan Le-Guin wrote:
    CCP karkur wrote:
    Morgan Le-Guin wrote:
  • An autopilot switch, even if buried a level. I use the warp-to-0 -> activate AP -> auto jump -> deactivate AP -> warp-to-0 method of long distance travel. (Though I realize not everyone uses this method)
    • Did you know that you can right click the name of the next system in route (in the info panels) and there select "jump through stargate" and then it will warp you to the stargate at 0 and jump and then you just repeat every time you enter a new system (that's what I use when traveling alone).
    Wow, thank you. I guess as a noob I had always assumed it would drop me 15km out. Learn something new every day. And also it seems warp-to-0 is automatic when jumping via the radial menu off of the overview. This is great.
    I actually either use the "jump" button from overview (it warps you to 0 or approaches if you are within minimum warp range and then jumps) or use the 'D' combat shortcut / hotkey.

    Easiest I find is to have a travel tab on the overview only with stargates, sort it by icon (that way the next stargate in the route is at the top, regardless of name or distance) and keep the input focus on the overview. After each jump I press arrow down to select the next gate and then 'D' to "warp to 0 and jump".

    Stop that! Devs are not supposed to play and understand the game. Just check the average post in GD.

    Everyone says so.

    Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

    Frozen fanfiction
    Jurius Doctor
    Iron.Guard
    Fraternity.
    #153 - 2013-06-24 21:56:38 UTC
    Xercodo wrote:
    Jurius Doctor wrote:
    CCP karkur wrote:
    Hi all,

    I hope we are all liking Odyssey and all it brings, and of course that we are all using the new Radial Menu Smile

    I wanted to check in with you guys, and see if how it was treating you and if you have any comments on the actions we have in it.Smile
    • Have you run into any objects in space that have no primary action but you wish they did?
    • Are there objects that you wished had a different primary action?
    • Do you feel any objects are missing very commonly used actions (either as primary action, or in second layer).


    We have put a lot of thought into the Radial Menu actions and are fairly happy with it as it is today. We do recognized that we might have missed some actions and would like to hear your thoughts, and then evaluate if we should make some minor changes Smile

    Edit: this is not thread about you wanting to disable it, it's already possible to increase the delay and bind it to a different key so it really shouldn't get in your way if you don't want it Smile


    I have been using the Radial Menu (RM) quite extensively, as I find it a little more intuitive than some of the key bindings, and though I am the sort to rely heavily on shortcuts and macros in other games, I have not done so here except for the standard Neocom menu items and targeting functions.

    That said, there are some improvements I would like to suggest for the RM which I think could improve the RM's human response:

    i. Function Escalations: At present, the radial menu pulls different values and function calls depending on the sprite targeted when the menu is triggered. However, the ability to change the default values and metrics for those function calls still heavily depends on right-click context menus (such as changing the orbit distance of a drone from target, on the fly). If you could develop a system of bound-key and mouse combinations to escalate/change the functions on the radial menu depending on type of action desired, that would be advantageous.

    (e.g. Pressing "alt" or "Ctrl" while holding left-click for radial menu over your ship might escalate "show info" to "view resistances" and produce a more concise view, which wouldn't require me to have the Fittings window taking up half of my viewable real-estate.)

    ii. Space Controls: As with above, presently you have to target specific sprites or MOBs to pull up different radial menus, but interacting with spatial markers, coordinates saved to personal, and accessing asteroid belts still rely on right-click context menus. Could you please design a radial menu for spatial interaction?

    iii. Numeric second-tier access to radial menus: I use my number pad a lot. Having the ability to map it separately for my radial menus would be fantastic.

    (e.g. Press "5" to bring up the radial menu, then 1-clockwise-through-2 to access the different radial compass icons, in combination with alt or ctrl keys, as above, for escalation of functions.)

    Just my $0.02.


    All of this, right here.


    Thank you. :)
    Jurius Doctor
    Iron.Guard
    Fraternity.
    #154 - 2013-06-24 22:02:21 UTC
    Trytan Blychllad wrote:
    My biggest gripe about the radial menu is where and where not it is used.

    Drones | Oopsno, I have to pull my hair out to manage the drone UI


    In addition to my statement about radial menu escalation for drone and spatial control elements, I will add the following:

    iv. it would be advantageous to have the following functions available in a radial menu for drone control:
    a. Drone/Fighter control: "Engage Selected Target"
    b. Drone/Fighter control: "Engage all Hostile Targets" (hostile defined as PvE rats, members you're at war with, members with open suspect ticket)
    c. Drone/Bomber control: "Torpedo/Bomb Selected Target"
    d. Drone control: "Mine all X resource" > followed by > "Select X resource to mine"
    e. Drone/Fighter control: "Return to Drone Bay"
    f. Drone/Fighter control: "Attack all FoF"
    g. Drone/Fighter control: "Kamikaze selected unit" > Initiate animation, damage = (drone hp+base structure+armor) / 4, rounded down
    M1k3y Koontz
    Speaker for the Dead
    Shadow Cartel
    #155 - 2013-06-25 13:23:14 UTC
    From my experiences I like it, but those experiences are mostly limited to opening the probing window as anything I click on in space I can find in my overview.

    How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
    Alexila Quant
    Versatility Production Corporation' LLC
    #156 - 2013-06-26 21:09:36 UTC
    Pos modules such as CHAs and SMAs don't have a primary action which obviously should be View Contents.
    Tara Tyrael
    Quantum Anomaly Corporation
    #157 - 2013-06-26 21:40:57 UTC
    well, radial menu on cloaked ship would be nice...

    its annoying when scouting wh space or 0.0 I can't use bookmark option because my ship is cloaked.

    offtopic, add option to show bookmarks on overview itself :)
    Krak0rz
    Oblivion Chaos Fleet
    #158 - 2013-06-26 22:29:31 UTC
    Drones. Don't put this on the back burner because of some mythical-down-the-road drone UI redesign.
    Matuk Grymwal
    Collapsed Out
    Pandemic Legion
    #159 - 2013-06-27 03:01:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Matuk Grymwal
    New radial-like menus for setting range for orbit/keep-at-range (as an alternative to the right click context menus).

    I was planning to prototype a mockup and record a video, but I never found the time. So I'll just explain it.

    The gist is you make use of the existing navigation key binds for keep at range and orbit (I forget which is which, but the defaults are two of: Q, W, E - one is approach) that allow you to hit the key and then click on a ship (either in space, in the overview, or on a locked target).

    My idea is that the existing behaviour still works, however you get alternate behaviour if you click & hold:


    • Press and hold one of the navigation key binds.
    • Now if you click and hold the mouse on a ship/object you now get an option to set the range.
    • You then set the range by moving the mouse away from the original click point (in any direction).
    • The range would be displayed at the point where you first clicked the mouse (using a radial style menu overlay).
    • You'd probably want to use a slight exponential function for setting the range, since (a) you don't need as much precision when setting longer ranges and (b) you don't want to have to move your mouse too far to set long ranges.
    • Release the mouse button to set.
    • Probably do something like release the keyboard key press before releasing the mouse button to abort the action.


    Cheers,
    Mat
    Alvatore DiMarco
    Capricious Endeavours Ltd
    #160 - 2013-06-27 06:17:06 UTC
    Jurius Doctor wrote:
    Trytan Blychllad wrote:
    My biggest gripe about the radial menu is where and where not it is used.

    Drones | Oopsno, I have to pull my hair out to manage the drone UI


    In addition to my statement about radial menu escalation for drone and spatial control elements, I will add the following:

    iv. it would be advantageous to have the following functions available in a radial menu for drone control:
    a. Drone/Fighter control: "Engage Selected Target"
    b. Drone/Fighter control: "Engage all Hostile Targets" (hostile defined as PvE rats, members you're at war with, members with open suspect ticket)
    c. Drone/Bomber control: "Torpedo/Bomb Selected Target"
    d. Drone control: "Mine all X resource" > followed by > "Select X resource to mine"
    e. Drone/Fighter control: "Return to Drone Bay"
    f. Drone/Fighter control: "Attack all FoF"
    g. Drone/Fighter control: "Kamikaze selected unit" > Initiate animation, damage = (drone hp+base structure+armor) / 4, rounded down


    You've got a lot of drone functions in there. I don't think some of them even exist. Thin them down, remove the ones that don't exist (wrong thread for suggestions) or are already covered by setting your drones passive/aggressive (a second-layer option to toggle passive/aggressive could be good) and then let's see what the list looks like.