Ships & Modules

Hello all.

I was all excited when I got my 29,999,999.99 ISK Retriever mining barge. I flew it home from Dodixie, and the first thing I noticed was that it can't warp all the way to the next jump gate sometimes. Next, I go online to find fitting advice, and all I get is how easy it is to destroy, and that the best you can do is make enough isk from one or two loads, and hope you made enough to pay for your blown up barge, with enough left over for your next barge, and anything left after that is profit.

I haven't gotten any fittings for it yet, so I'm ready to go shopping as soon as I get a list that will:

1) solve the "not enough power to warp to the destination" problem, (or is it really not a problem?)
2) make my retriever able to survive long enough to run away (increase effective hit points without sacrificing too much of what little speed I have - if that's possible).
3) I can use mining laser II, I can use mine drone II, I can use scout drones I.
4) I can use shields I, and armor plate.
5) I have nearly 1.3 million skill points, mostly on mining and drones.

Obviously, I could just throw on some plate and shields, but the problem is I only have:

2 Rig slots
2 high slots
1 mid slot
and 3 or 4 low slots

I think I have less than 200 capacitance.

So, I need help balancing all that stuff so that I don't end up crawling around at 3 knots and having to wait 5 minutes before I can build up speed to warp, and then only have enough power left to warp 600 meters at a time....

Or should I sell my Retriever off at a loss and get something else? I'll only be operating in High Sec.

Originally, I got it for the Ore hold capacity, and figured I could save time on back and forth trips to asteroid belts and unloading at my station. Now, I don't know....

I haven't done any mining in a long time, so take this advice coming from someone with only passing knowledge in fitting mining ships.

Lack of capacitor to warp properly:
This isn't uncommon with some ships for people with bad skills. You want to improve your capacitor boosting skills(energy management/energy systems operation) and train warp drive operation to higher levels to reduce the cap consumption of warping.

Tanking my retriever:
It's not something you can do and I don't think you're meant to either. You can boost your resists and fit a damage control, but that's about it. Your primary defence is killing any NPCs as soon as possible with your drones. Against another player your defense is warping out before any shooting starts.

Fitting my retriever:
Doesn't look like you have much choice. Strip miners in high, survey scanner or resists in the mid and mining upgrades/DCU in low is propably close to the standard highsec fit. Not sure what rigs you'd want.

Other misc complaints:
I don't see why you're complaining about the speed or seem to think, that has anything to do with how fast you reach warp. First of all it's a mining ship. It's supposed to stand relatively still and shoot at immobile targets. Speed isn't going to help you here. Initiating warp is agility based. It starts when you are going towards the target and reach 75% of your max velocity. What matter there is your ability to change directions and accelerate. The larger your ship the longer this will take when starting from 0. The only way to initiate warp fast with other than small ships is to stay aligned to a target, which means flying towards it going at least 75% of your max velocity.

Thanks. That's good to hear, and Destination goes into a little detail as to why.



Yeah. I have to train that up, but with my low capacitor issue, I thought strip miners would be a problem too.



Hmmm.... I will see what I need to train up to be able to use some of those (I'll also need to google, to figure out what some of the abbreviations mean. I think I saw a glossary somewhere... I should have bookmarked it when I had the chance.)




That explains a lot. Thanks for that tip.



As far as speed goes, I notice that you have to wait to get to about 75% of your speed before the warp engines engage. For me, speed means how fast you get up to that 75% - or how fast you accelerate. The faster you accelerate the sooner you warp.

But you also gave me some good ideas about how to prepare for a quick exit if needed. I could align to something and stand still. Then if the need arises, select "jump" or "Dock." That way I don't have to worry about the time it takes to turn around and all of that.

Thanks for your replies, guys. I hope to see more replies.

Capacitor issues generally just mean you have to make two warps instead of one to cross a system - it's time-consuming, and an annoyance, but it shouldn't be a deal-breaker. Strip miners shouldn't cap you out; if you start them both at the same time, they may chew up some (never all) of your cap, but then you've got three-minute cycle times, which is plenty to recover from that hit. If you counter-cycle your strip miners (start one when the other's halfway through its cycle), then you probably won't even drop below 1/2 capacitor.

Thanks very much. That was most educational. As far as aligning goes. What I meant was that I would point the ship to the jump gate or station that I wanted to jump or dock so that all the ship has to do is accelerate forward towards the gate/station and warp. The ship would not have to spend time turning around and such. That has to cut some time off from running away. You don't think?

Actually no. That mistake is easy to make though for people who don't understand how the game works. Ships in EVE are balls with a velocity vector. A stationary ship therefore has no facing. What you see on your screen is just a graphical presentation for your benefit. For the game it's just a ball/dot and reaches warp in equal time no matter what direction the target is. It's important to understand that the game only cares about, that you have a velocity vector going towards the target@75% max velocity. That means zero velocity doesn't help at all, but the closer to that 75% max velocity your ship appreaches the target, the faster you warp when the order is given.

Honestly, if you fit them both for maximum yield a retriever can mine 1093m3/minute while a procurer mines 1002m3/minute. In that configuration a procurer will have something like 5x the buffer/EHP of the retriever though. If you "tank fit" the retriever for maximum EHP it goes up to 22.2k EHP which the procurer still almost triples, and your mining yield drops to 844m3/minute.

Within that context the only reason I see to fly a retriever is the ore hold and how it cuts down on cycles "lost" to unloading. That advantage, however, is somewhat diminished if you compare a tank fit retriever with a mining fit procurer. The procurer might only hold 43.63~ of the ore that the retriever can hold, but it also mines ore almost 20% faster. The procurer being able to align/get into warp faster can also help reduce some of the retriever's ore hold advantage as well by getting you back to the mining (slightly) faster.

If you're in a situation where you can play to the retriever's strengths as a mining ship then it's certainly not a mistake to fly one, but all things considered these days I wouldn't fly one in most situations simply because it's more gankable, more expensive to replace, and its primary advantage over the procurer is easy to reduce if not outright negate.

On the other hand I suppose that discussions like this just go to prove that CCP did a pretty good job balancing the ships. If either the procurer or the retriever was a clear winner for solo mining it likely would never have happened.

Your yield will still be greater with the increased cargo hold of the retriever. The procurer will have to make more trips that will decrease the overall yield.

If you are mining in hisec you 'll find two dangers, rats and gankers, 4 hobgoblin can deal with any rats, you don't need tank. As for gankers... a retriever is not a juicy target and the ganker will be destroyed too. You don't hunt barges for profit and the fun it provides is very limited and balanced with the pain of security status grind.

To sum up use 3-4 hobgoblin and fit for max yield.

Wow. Not only did I get great advice on fittings, but I also got to see philosophical points of view on why one set of fittings may be more useful than another set. It made me wonder if anyone had codified a doctrine for mining and mining entities?

A doctrine is a codified set of principles, rules, and guidelines that inform how an entity operates under varying conditions and tactical situations. It lays out the entities' policies for money spent on R&D, training policies, equipment procurement, load-outs for varying situations, etc.

Has anyone seen any links to such a codified doctrine written up by EVE Online players?