These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

trading bots in jita are increasing - make orders with CAPTCHA - get rid of them
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-06-23 12:35:35 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
[quote=Victoria Sin]Weren't you accidentally trading against yourself the last time you complained about suspicious market increments? Straight


On one occasion that was true, yes :).
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#42 - 2013-06-23 12:40:51 UTC
I can see this going well.....

"ooh, ooh, there's my price point...click buy....advanced....change the price....hurry! hurry! come on!......what?! captcha #$@!&!!!!

*type type type click*

~Order has now been undercut by several million~

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#43 - 2013-06-23 13:03:56 UTC
You'll never get rid of Jita spam bots...

It's just another GSF passive income.

...
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
#44 - 2013-06-23 13:39:14 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
everytime after a bigger patch he notices 2-3 days of normal trading before the bots have catched on again.


This is the clearest evidence of the existence of market bots in Jita

I can see it in EVE mentat also : after a patch, my stuff sales naturally, I do not even need to update my orders more than 3 or 4 times per day to sell up to 10x more than usually.

---   Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005  ---
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#45 - 2013-06-23 13:53:00 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
If CCP introduced captcha for anything in game, I would quit without hesitation.


Some might say the hacking game was a glorified captcha...
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#46 - 2013-06-23 13:56:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
7of Six wrote:
one little captcha per hour or 30min... what a big work...

Bots can solve CAPTCHAs. What they do is send them to a service organization in a third world contry that, for a very small fee, solves it for the bot. The guy who writes and sells the bot program would have to write the use of the service into the bot program, and after that every bot will just automatically solve every CAPTCHA. But us real players will be stuck with them, even as they do nothing to stop the bots.

Remember: A bot can drive a rover on Mars. A bot is world chess champion. Goggle has bots driving cars in traffic. A bot is world Jepardy champion. Bots have become very, very capable. You do not stop them by changing the game. You stop them by detecting their existence and banning them.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
#47 - 2013-06-23 13:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Miilla
Captcha are not the solution, but however it will lighten the loading on the servers by less active accounts.


The real problem is CCP's business strategy of depending and encouraging multi account boxing, they don't care about the solo player, they care about the 2-10+ boxer accounts.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#48 - 2013-06-23 13:58:50 UTC
It isn't the actual thought of a captcha system being implemented that bugs me so much (although anything my make the game more work is stupid) but the fact that CCP would not manage to do it right in the first place.

Regardless, there are so many ways to automate the market system external to the game with its ability to export market data that all it would do is shift the market slightly, but not enough to justify the work CCP would have to put in to it, patch it, deny the issue, fix the statue, and then reintroduce it in a watered down form.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#49 - 2013-06-23 13:59:05 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
7of Six wrote:
one little captcha per hour or 30min... what a big work...

Bots can solve CAPTCHAs. What they do is send them to a service organization in a third world contry that, for a very small fee, solves it for the bot. The guy who writes and sells the bot program would have to write the use of the service into the bot program, and after that every bot will just automatically solve every CAPTCHA. But us real players will be stuck with them, even as they do nothing to stop the bots.

Remember: A bot can drive a rover on Mars. A bot is world chess champion. Goggle has bots driving cars in traffic. A bot is world Jepardy champion. Bots have become very, very capable. You do not stop them by changing the game. You stop them by detecting their existence and banning them.


$0.05 per 1000 solves...

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/
7of Six
Keeper of Ouzo
#50 - 2013-06-23 17:58:57 UTC
there are bots they buy one item go above 0,01 ervery 5 min or operate with serveral orders and than they sell that one item go above every 5 min, and so on. As human player, there is no change to do anything, because the bot works 23 h a day.

All bots that are making bigger orders, 10-100 items, you can manage them and make isk in many ways. I do not write my secrects here - but the one item bots are very bad!!!
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#51 - 2013-06-23 18:14:13 UTC
7of Six wrote:
hi

get rid of all trandig bots very easily

if you wanna make or change an order - a CAPTCHA of 2-3 letters appears and you can make/change orders for a period of time (maybe 30min). After that a new captcha appears. One second more work in 30min and ccp can save a lot of money pay people to hunting bots und all traders are free of bots...


There are literally 1000's of out of work Icebots, they had to go somewhere.....Oops

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-06-23 18:18:23 UTC
What? Can't log into market hub? Dodixie works fine for me, what's your problem?

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Mytai Gengod
Sebees
#53 - 2013-06-23 18:20:29 UTC
Assuming trading bots are as invasive as OP claims (I don't know if that is the case), I am for any changes that reduce or eliminate them. Except those changes that have a negative effect on real players like CAPTCHA would.

I detest CAPTCHAs.
Sensui-kan
#54 - 2013-06-23 18:28:17 UTC
You're only fighting bots because you choose to behave like a bot, .01 isking 50 orders over and over again. Re-examine your life please
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-06-23 18:28:51 UTC
The scoops are on the way.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#56 - 2013-06-23 18:33:19 UTC
CAPTCHA sucks as a human verification method. Some of the fonts used may as well be hieroglyphs for all the readability they have and the whole process is easily circumvented by bot writers outsourcing the CAPTCHA solving to third world countries where people are willing to solve them for a pittance.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#57 - 2013-06-23 18:41:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
... shrugs at yet another thread claiming EVE isn't "fair" and that special exceptions need to be made for (fill in the blank with your favourite special interest group) who are pissed that older players have legitimately earned a more powerful and affluent position in EVE society....

Tards.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Tumahub
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2013-06-23 18:45:49 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Captcha are not the solution, but however it will lighten the loading on the servers by less active accounts.


The real problem is CCP's business strategy of depending and encouraging multi account boxing, they don't care about the solo player, they care about the 2-10+ boxer accounts.


I'm inclined to agree, but I also like the fact that many neck-beards spend a lot of :effort: to "play for free," while I can get the fruits of their labor for a pittance.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#59 - 2013-06-23 21:10:47 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:
Sorry but this is bull x2. Bots work with tiny 0.01 price increments. Deeply undercut/overcut prices, which other players actualy benefit from are always the doing of real player traders.
And to say trading has the smallest risk is a joke. Sure you're not getting violated by other players when you always stay in station but ther's always risk of a typo which is bound to happen occasionaly with eve's big numbers and the input lag in Jita. Trust me losing a couple billion because of a missing 0 or one too much doesn't feel less awful then getting freighter ganked. Same can happen thanks to bad investments, CCP deciding on some surprise changes etc.


"'Update price (random, min)' and 'Update price (random, max)' are used to specify the range of the price changes. **CENSORED** will take a random price between these two numbers and use that as the price to change by."

Also, human players can still do all the massive undercutting they feel like. Bots make a steady march towards the appropriate price and stay there; more bots or human intervention get them there faster. Your counter-arguments all seem very petty.

Missing a zero (which the interface does a song and dance for) is the equivalent of a mission runner losing his ship to NPCs. If you seriously have that problem, maybe you're better off with a computer doing it for you. As for massive price swings, I'm pretty sure none of the current bots do market speculation; why not make your money there? It seems more fun anyway.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#60 - 2013-06-23 21:14:53 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
7of Six wrote:
one little captcha per hour or 30min... what a big work...

Bots can solve CAPTCHAs. What they do is send them to a service organization in a third world contry that, for a very small fee, solves it for the bot. The guy who writes and sells the bot program would have to write the use of the service into the bot program, and after that every bot will just automatically solve every CAPTCHA. But us real players will be stuck with them, even as they do nothing to stop the bots.

Remember: A bot can drive a rover on Mars. A bot is world chess champion. Goggle has bots driving cars in traffic. A bot is world Jepardy champion. Bots have become very, very capable. You do not stop them by changing the game. You stop them by detecting their existence and banning them.


FWIW, reCAPTCHA (the one run by google and used by most big sites) is rarely broken by visual recognition techniques and patched quickly when it is. It's orders of magnitude cheaper to farm out the labor to actual humans.

I don't think anyone other than the OP is seriously considering CAPTCHAs though.