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How game crashes are handled in mission running

Author
Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#1 - 2013-06-20 10:07:35 UTC
So, yesterday i was running the epic arc for gallente, just short note, those elite ships do way to much damage, even with a omni tank at 75-80% all resists they hit for 250ish and there is alot of em firing fast.
Anyways back to the point, so i was doing one of them that was doing alot of damage, i ofc aligned myself to a station to escape when needed, my shield was at 50% very quickly so i called in my drones and at 40% when they were back i reached for the warp button and my game crashed..
So normally you warp out at a crash so its np, unless the timer is still running i assume.
So thinking i was warping out i logged back in pondering how to deal with that extreme damage, as i come in i find my ship with 0 shield and 50% armor not warped out...
I panic and target a station and hit warp, ofc my ship isnt aligned and it takes a ton of time...
When my ship finally warps out i was at 30% hull.. about 1 volley which is another 1-3 seconds from death... i barely made it out that time.
This is what i want to address, if there is a crash you should always be warped out in pve.. no matter what.
If i would have lost my 1,5 or more billion setup due to a crash that would have been it, i would have cancelled my subscription instantly, cause losing so much due to a game crashing isnt fair in any shape or form, its years of work for me.
And its not like my tank is to weak with close to 80% in all resists, faction and dead space stuff like gist x-type large shield booster and caldari navy shield booster, caldari navi invul fields etc.

Again, if you dont want to lose customers who runs missions you need to consider this, im sure your timer is there to stop some kind of abuse, but if it punishes people who doesnt abuse but have game crashes it should be reconsidered or reworked somehow.
Against npcs there shouldnt be such a limit when crashing.
I can take the lost stuff if im in game and i know ive taken on to much or messed up my situation.
But i will not take losing that much, because of a game crash.
Please consider this.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#2 - 2013-06-20 10:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
When game crashes and if you're not tackled - you WILL warp out 1mil km. But you'll be returned to same location on next log in whether you want or not. Dont fly something you cannot afford to lose. Also kill tacklers 1st.

You should thank CCP for not turning modules off when you crash.

/thread

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#3 - 2013-06-20 11:42:23 UTC
Thats my point.. usually it does, this time it didnt, which i though was a time limit thing.
There was no tacklers, i know those.
My ship just didnt warp out and back, thats what i was expecting, it didnt happend.
Are you saying i should call this a bug instead?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#4 - 2013-06-20 11:44:54 UTC
There's a log-off timer now for combat with non-capsuleers. Could this lack of warping have been due to the timer?
Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#5 - 2013-06-20 11:48:23 UTC
Thats what I thought, but i dont think that timer should apply to a crash.

Also another thing to the first reply.
I also do not know why i should be thankful for them not turning them off, my whole point is when the game crashes I shouldnt suffer for it, if i mess up im fine with it, but if its a game crash that causes it there should be a safety net at all time.
I can afford to lose my ship at the moment, but why would i want to play when a simple crash can make me lose months or even years of work and it can happend twice in one day.
Im spending both money and time on this and a crash shouldnt make me lose that much.
Nathanien Indoril
Creation and Extraction
#6 - 2013-06-20 11:57:08 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
There's a log-off timer now for combat with non-capsuleers. Could this lack of warping have been due to the timer?

imho it's really a only log-off timer.
When your game crashes: You still warp away, and the logoff happens, when the timer is over.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
#7 - 2013-06-20 12:12:21 UTC
Gazing into crystal ball I'd speculate the when the client crashes it doesn't properly close the network connection, so server works under assumption the client is still alive and only packets timing out may indicate something's amiss, which takes, erm, time.

Thus, if you log in shortly after crash, from server's perspective it's like you just opened the new connection, ditching the old one.

When you quit client instead, it sends quit message to the server and the server then initiates logoffski protocol. Same applies to other network outages when the server is immediately notified the client doesn't exist or is unreachable.
Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#8 - 2013-06-20 12:30:10 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Gazing into crystal ball I'd speculate the when the client crashes it doesn't properly close the network connection, so server works under assumption the client is still alive and only packets timing out may indicate something's amiss, which takes, erm, time.

Thus, if you log in shortly after crash, from server's perspective it's like you just opened the new connection, ditching the old one.

When you quit client instead, it sends quit message to the server and the server then initiates logoffski protocol. Same applies to other network outages when the server is immediately notified the client doesn't exist or is unreachable.


Maybe, but I wasnt that fast in getting back into the game, sure it took less then a minute but more then 30 seconds, not sure how long its ment to keep alive, but any more then 10-15 seconds seems to much to me.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
#9 - 2013-06-20 13:30:06 UTC
Ypzon wrote:
Maybe, but I wasnt that fast in getting back into the game, sure it took less then a minute but more then 30 seconds, not sure how long its ment to keep alive, but any more then 10-15 seconds seems to much to me.

I don't have reference data at hand but it can be a couple of minutes or more.
Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#10 - 2013-06-20 14:53:44 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:
Ypzon wrote:
Maybe, but I wasnt that fast in getting back into the game, sure it took less then a minute but more then 30 seconds, not sure how long its ment to keep alive, but any more then 10-15 seconds seems to much to me.

I don't have reference data at hand but it can be a couple of minutes or more.


Dont think this is the case though, ive had a few crashes before, and in all other cases where i logged back in just as quickly i come back to my ship warping out from the fight.
So i dont think it was due to me being to fast this time.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#11 - 2013-06-20 15:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
You do warp out when you crash. But since you were aligned out, your ship had to stop and realign to the random direction the game decided to e-Warp you in.

You just logged in before it managed to enter warp.

The logoff timers have nothing to do with your e-warp.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#12 - 2013-06-20 15:11:02 UTC
So you think i re-entered just right before it was about to self warp and because of that interupted it and had to redo it myself?
Maybe but aligning and warping out doesnt take 40-60 seconds for my ship even if it did pick another target to warp to.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#13 - 2013-06-21 00:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Ypzon wrote:
So you think i re-entered just right before it was about to self warp and because of that interupted it and had to redo it myself?
Maybe but aligning and warping out doesnt take 40-60 seconds for my ship even if it did pick another target to warp to.



E-warp doesn't start instantly, it starts when the server notices you're not answering (which is generally pretty quick, but when logging off, your client says "hey, server, I'm outie5000, e-warp me" while crashing it likely says nothing). And realigning from full speed takes extra time over aligning from 0.

Also, I'm guessing that if you log in before getting into e-warp, it cancels the warp.


Or, if loading grid after logging in took an absurdly long time, you could have e-warped back in.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#14 - 2013-06-21 10:35:14 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Ypzon wrote:
So you think i re-entered just right before it was about to self warp and because of that interupted it and had to redo it myself?
Maybe but aligning and warping out doesnt take 40-60 seconds for my ship even if it did pick another target to warp to.



E-warp doesn't start instantly, it starts when the server notices you're not answering (which is generally pretty quick, but when logging off, your client says "hey, server, I'm outie5000, e-warp me" while crashing it likely says nothing). And realigning from full speed takes extra time over aligning from 0.

Also, I'm guessing that if you log in before getting into e-warp, it cancels the warp.


Or, if loading grid after logging in took an absurdly long time, you could have e-warped back in.


Yeah i guess that could have been the case, would be nice to get some input from a Dev on how it actually works when you crash.
Do you always warp out automatically no matter what, and if you get back quick enough is it stopped etc.
And what timers are we looking at before the game decides that you're not in the game anymore an starts warping you out.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-06-21 10:46:22 UTC
I've had my client freeze, and need to be force quit... and it didn't warp me out.
I was in a fleet on TS at the moment, and I still showed up to them as in fleet and in system even though my game was closed.
Othertimes, I see many people go from a purple box, to white rectangle, and warp off (a disconnect).

I suspect the crash happened in a way that the server's hadn't realized you were gone.
I can accept this... what I want to know is if you could recoup your losses by a petition - err support ticket - after it happens.
Ypzon
Heirs of savagery
#16 - 2013-06-21 11:09:42 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
I've had my client freeze, and need to be force quit... and it didn't warp me out.
I was in a fleet on TS at the moment, and I still showed up to them as in fleet and in system even though my game was closed.
Othertimes, I see many people go from a purple box, to white rectangle, and warp off (a disconnect).

I suspect the crash happened in a way that the server's hadn't realized you were gone.
I can accept this... what I want to know is if you could recoup your losses by a petition - err support ticket - after it happens.


Yeah thats what i got, a pop up window that says Eve has stopped responding and then I shut it down and go back in.
Most of the times I am being warped out but sometimes I get back to my ship still sitting around taking damage which can be a severe lose in invested money and time.