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Goods and Bads in hacking minigame
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Lady Manus
Lumen et Umbra
#21 - 2013-06-19 11:13:08 UTC
Ty to all of you that added useful comments to my initial posts.

A few more elaborations:

1 - Yes minigame is fun and boring at the same time: it requires strategy and thought (in the hardest ones at least I manage to complete 95% of em with 110/30 stats an its not easy) but there are simply too many cans... after a while you hate this farming, reduce the cans inrcrease lenght and difficult!!!!

2 - NPCs are needed imho, at least in null secs ones.... much more interesting and put in better loot then!

3 - The minigame window is too big and not resizable: you can easily d-scan and looking the target list while hacking

4 - FIX THE OTHER PLEXES: WHY WE DO HAVE SO MANY USELESS DUNGEONS NO ONE RUNS?????

5 - Improve the loot of high lever plexes (from DED 7 to 10): why the average value of DED 5 and 6 shall be consistenly much higher than 7,8,9 and 10??? Just add rare BPCs in the high level ones and you r done

6 - Fix faction battleships: why Rattlesnake is so bad performing compared to machariel??? (ok well this is a bit off-topic but would help rebalancing loot value in some plexes)

7 - Where the ex-static D1 and D2 are gone???? I never find em anymore in high and low secs....

8 - FIX DRONE PLEXES PLSSS!!!


My 2 cents, LM
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-06-19 11:23:14 UTC
Jonas Staal wrote:
Lady Manus wrote:
After having done about 200 site in low and null secs mostly, I'd like to post a few comments with the hope of improving the overall exploration experience.

4 - The bad plexes are still all there (drone ones, useless faction ones etc...) was odyseey suposed to fix that too?
4 - Fix combat plexes PLEASE!



Put useful stuff in drone sites!



Indeed, drone sites could get some love and specific modules, I'm one of these loving hull tank, it's silly but yeah me likes and would like to see faction modules drop like reinforced bulkheads and useful hull reps Lol

So much useful pvp stuff to add, special drone descriptors for drone invention and give them the Navy ones power, specific sub cap Drone Upgrade module limited at 2 per ship, Drone control range modules, Drone omnilinks and dmg augmentators, drone and sentry rigs.

Back on track, I've spent some time doing some 1st grade math yesterdays and for a 300M investment +1 scout I should be able to do about 1+B in a couple hours doing sites but nothing about hack, just cloaking on the site and gank the explorers on top of getting shini KM's, most often those are cloak nulli T3's.
This sucks, I'd rather do the sites my self or compete for sites but this click fest is about to kill me.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-06-19 11:29:06 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Nam Dnilb wrote:
[quote=Lady Manus]I have a char in 0.0 since Odyssey hit, I have encountered less then ten other players TOTAL. None made an attempt at my life. Most exciting part of the whole endeavour is scanning down a wormhole pipe to a trade hub.
Where/when is this exactly? I've seen a couple people say it, but I can't spend a night out there without having to dodge a few bubbles and avoid a couple honeypots with varying degrees of subtlety.


I daily run into people who scanning down the data and relic sites looking for "easy" kills, but playing the hacking game while running d-scan and keeping and eye on local and the overview just makes the mini-game seem less boring.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-06-19 11:41:36 UTC
Lady Manus wrote:
2 - NPCs are needed imho, at least in null secs ones.... much more interesting and put in better loot then!


Adding the npc's just force people to dual box with T3/T2 + covert ops, without really adding anything to the game.

At least now people have a choice, you can do the "free for all" hacking sites or the more difficult, and often more risky, combat sites.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-06-19 11:53:09 UTC
dexington wrote:
Lady Manus wrote:
2 - NPCs are needed imho, at least in null secs ones.... much more interesting and put in better loot then!


Adding the npc's just force people to dual box with T3/T2 + covert ops, without really adding anything to the game.

At least now people have a choice, you can do the "free for all" hacking sites or the more difficult, and often more risky, combat sites.



It will add something: better and easier juicy targets to kill but will not solve any of the problems of this new system.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#26 - 2013-06-19 18:42:06 UTC
Quote:
Adding the npc's just force people to dual box with T3/T2 + covert op


No. The way it was on Sisi was that a single cruiser spawned in nullsec after failure. You can still run the sites just fine solo only have to bring a ship with a little tank or dps. It really just keeps the cheap frigs away, thereby reducing the number of people willing to ride the bandwagon and making it more profitable again for the rest of us.
Noriko Mai
#27 - 2013-06-19 20:38:27 UTC
The worst thing is that you sometime get stuck in the data thing. And sometimes there are invisible barriers in the site that slows you down to zero and let your ship do the drunken dance.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-06-20 06:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: dexington
Johan Toralen wrote:
Quote:
Adding the npc's just force people to dual box with T3/T2 + covert op


No. The way it was on Sisi was that a single cruiser spawned in nullsec after failure. You can still run the sites just fine solo only have to bring a ship with a little tank or dps.


I only know of 3 ships design for doing relic and data sites, the exploration frigate, covert ops and T3 cruisers with Emergent Locus Analyser subsystem. Some of the frigates are unable to deal dps, eg. the helios only have 2 high slots which are used for cloak and probe launcher, and you probably can't kill a cruiser with the one drone it's able to use.

Which means the T3 really is the only viable option, and most people flying something expensive around low/null use a cloaked scout.

Johan Toralen wrote:
It really just keeps the cheap frigs away, thereby reducing the number of people willing to ride the bandwagon and making it more profitable again for the rest of us.


It's already very profitable, and i like the idea that some week old newbie can take the chance, buy a frigate go to null and maybe make a fortune, if he makes it back alive. That is more in the spirit of exploration then the older players having a monopoly on null sec exploration, because it require the skillpoint, knowledge and isk to safely fly a T3 around null.

Besides many of the explorers flying frigates around null can fly better ship, there is just no reason to do it, you can buy a lot of covert ops for the price of a T3. You would not make a lot more isk by adding rats to the sites, you would just see more of the bigger ships.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Laxen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-06-20 09:43:05 UTC
Lady Manus wrote:
After having done about 200 site in low and null secs mostly, I'd like to post a few comments with the hope of improving the overall exploration experience.

Goods:
1 - In spite of early testing, the minigame is fun. Especially the hardest ones requires thinking some planning and some luck, so good job CCP!
2 - The loot is fair: even solo I mostly do the same isks as before
3 - the future looks bright: CCP can easilly impove it in the future with more options, modules etcc....
4 - It actually improve group play: easier to bring in friends and corpm8s withou sacrificing solo play

Bads:
1 - The miningame is too long and eventually too boring: when u do many of em, having to open 6 cans is very very repetitive and boring
2 - No NPCs means less things to face, less strategy and too mucheasy and boredom
3 - Having to sacrifice a mid slot only to scan for a cool BPC is really bad! Without a scanner you go totally random
4 - The bad plexes are still all there (drone ones, useless faction ones etc...) was odyseey suposed to fix that too?


Suggestions:
1 - Put in NPCs again! (ah ladar sites with hacking containers still have NPCs in them) . If you fail hacking more npcs!
2 - make the hackling containers much less 1 to 2/3 max! Or its really too boring! Improve the loot accordingly
3 - make the spawing containers colored by the rarity of the items inside (no more cargo scanning!!!)
4 - Fix combat plexes PLEASE!

LM


Even if my English is not very good, I hope you understand what I mean.

What does Lady Manus here is quite right, it is not liked any new form of view.

Suggestions made by it are perfectly justified and I support them.

This is my opinion, if you can count it a gain for others.

Regards,
Laxen
Nicolle Arwen
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-06-20 11:15:00 UTC
Hello!

I have to write myself several times in connection with the new scanning mode.
CCP do not understand why this game becoming more difficult.
I looked at things as simple and efficient for all.

So ... much loss of time associated with the worst way to collect loot. A matter which is not good to anyone random.

My suggestion is to return to its original shape.

Good day and good luck hunting.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#31 - 2013-06-20 12:25:56 UTC
dexington wrote:
I only know of 3 ships design for doing relic and data sites, the exploration frigate, covert ops and T3 cruisers with Emergent Locus Analyser subsystem. Some of the frigates are unable to deal dps, eg. the helios only have 2 high slots which are used for cloak and probe launcher, and you probably can't kill a cruiser with the one drone it's able to use.

Which means the T3 really is the only viable option, and most people flying something expensive around low/null use a cloaked scout.


CCP just needs to give a virus bonus to force recons or create a new class of t2 exploration cruisers.

Quote:
It's already very profitable


Not as profitable as it used to. And your view might be a little skewed because you're in Sansha space from what i gathered. You get the intact armor plates which are still valued ok'ish despite market crash.

Quote:
and i like the idea that some week old newbie can take the chance, buy a frigate go to null and maybe make a fortune, if he makes it back alive.


Can still do that only risk/reward is in a more appropriate balance.

Quote:
That is more in the spirit of exploration then the older players having a monopoly on null sec exploration, because it require the skillpoint, knowledge and isk to safely fly a T3 around null.


Old players don't have a monopoly. You can skill capable enough alt for profession sites (t3 + probe skills+hacking skills+some other basics) in about half year. Which isn't too much to asked for to exploit the riches from these sites. Plus you can assist someone else in the meantime as the sites are now made for group play or start in hisec, low sec which isn't too much to asked for either.

Quote:
Besides many of the explorers flying frigates around null can fly better ship, there is just no reason to do it, you can buy a lot of covert ops for the price of a T3. You would not make a lot more isk by adding rats to the sites, you would just see more of the bigger ships.


Which would be a good thing in itself.
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#32 - 2013-06-20 13:02:45 UTC
The single required fix:
Remove ability to cargo scan the cans.
Lady Manus
Lumen et Umbra
#33 - 2013-06-20 13:10:46 UTC
Stetson Eagle wrote:
The single required fix:
Remove ability to cargo scan the cans.


Also a last minute idea:
depending how better you hack slow down spawn container speed and incerase their live.

Example:
you hack a can with 1% remaining virus coherence - maximum speed in spawing conteiner spread and shortest live

you hack with 90%+ coherence left then spawn containers stand still and dont disappear


This will also have the advantage of making the puzzle more clever: so you have to better use your resources!

LM
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#34 - 2013-06-20 19:16:33 UTC
Just had this idea. What do you think?

Virus strenght bonus is removed from all ships. Instead a new set of rigs is introduced. t1 has +5 strenght and coherence, t2 has +15 strenght and coherence (tweak high end sites a bit accordingly). The t2 rigs use great deal of t2 salvage and the bpc's only spawn in the sites occasionaly. This means, you can still run sites in nullsec just fine in cov ops or any ship really but have to invest quite a bit to do so efficiently. Target price i would say should be in the region of 100m+ for small and 250m+ per medium t2 rig.

I think this would have several pros. It creates a lot of new demand for t2 salvage directly from the exploration community for the exploration community. Cheap frigs in null would be a thing of the past but sites can remain as they are with no rats.

Since rigs don't drop when a ship gets destroyed it also serves as a nice sink for the oversupply and helps to keep prices stable.
Hunters can salvage the wrecks tho and regain some of that salvage, right? So that's an additional incentive to hunt explorers because you know with almost certainty they are juicy targets in nullsec. So while the sites per se arn't dangerous more danger should come from other players.

The new bpc's would serve as a little extra income to offset the crashed decryptor market (have them spawn in data sites).
I Accidentally YourShip
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-06-22 18:08:47 UTC
Lady Manus wrote:
DUNGEONS


No.
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