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Import/export of settings! - How do you want it to work?

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Eskar DuCreaux
SwordCross
#21 - 2013-06-12 13:08:48 UTC
1. Everything that is configurable that doesn't depend on game start-up stability. (Everything but resolution I guess) The ONE thing I am unable to ever save- and one of the most important things to me- is the market quickbar shortcuts. I spend a lot of time at the market and I absolutely dread having to repopulate my quickbar.

2. How about "saved system settings" (things you select in the escape menu) and "saved user customization" (things that are customized outside of the escape menu) files stored on the server that players can access to populate the config files at will. A prompt to access those settings when the system detects that you are connecting from a fresh copy or a new computer would be insanely stylish. This way when people are jumping from system to system, they can select which settings will work best for them from the get go and keep universal things like their overview or market quickbar in the customization file and/or swap it up from time to time if they need.

3. If 2 is true, could you make it be a block of data you can link in chat? I don't know how possible that is but it would be too cool. Want to share a quickbar/overview customization file with a corpmate so he can watch some specific market items for you and/or kill people using your pvp overview? Blam click this orange text and select yes.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-06-13 11:01:42 UTC
Would be very very interesting if you could have CORP overview settings. Just like bookmarks .


If you guys touch overview.. please.. find a way so that I can show people that have suspect or criminal flags but not show neutrals without those flags !!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
CCP Fear
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2013-06-14 11:29:55 UTC
I apologize for my late return to this thread, cought some bug and been stuck in bed. Thankfully I got TNG on blu-ray to keep me company!

Anyways. I love the feedback. It confirms some of the things I had been thinking but also has provided me with great insight into how to use such a feature from your perspective and for that I'm thankful!

So to sum up, I think it's important to store the following (plus more).

  • All relevant settings in the ESC menu (excluding Graphical settings as they are reliant on the computer (might bit way around it though, want to investigate that)).
  • Overview settings
  • Ship module grouping and layout
  • Inventory filters
  • Fittings
  • Neocom
  • Drone groups
  • Chat Channels and their settings
  • Market Quickbar and settings


I would really like to have the sharing/import interaction very simple. Not sure I can get development time to make a big website feature where it's a public voting up and down, or something very complex and implementation intensive. Key is to have it simple to use.

I think the key elements that I think are important here are;


  • Multiple saved profiles which are easily switched between.
  • Everything stored server side. Synching is automatic to the profile being used. (this obviously has to be smart enough so it doesn't just always change. But the assumption is that it should be the same if you log in to a character on a different machine.)
  • Sharing between players is easy, link that can be posted through eve-mail, chat etc.
  • accepting sharing is easy, simple dialog stating what the shared profile is, you can select which "sections" you want.
  • CCP's changes to default settings do not override, but you get some notification on if they have been changed, and you have some way to import it. If you use CCP's default settings, then this change is automatic (perhaps?)
  • Can save/load from file locally if you wish to have hard copies (sharing through that is obviously possible as well.
  • Corporation shared profiles is great! I like any feature that allows for players to be masters of the complexity that is our UI settings and help others!



There also needs to be some simple management view on this, probably in the ESC menu. Complexity of that needs to be considered though. But if it's simple to use, then a novice should be able to accept and apply without problems or need to have a degree in EVE settings. Others that have mastered that can then share with others.

I'm quite excited to get this in! :)
sebnaje
Corsaires d'Elalan
#24 - 2013-06-14 11:49:10 UTC
Regarding overview, debug settings that are not corectly saved when importing an overview (small tags), make the current export function work regardless filters number (overview profiles wont export if too numerous). Also please add all overview settings that arent currently exportable (tag sorting ...).

All your listed items sound good but this is a first step.
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#25 - 2013-06-14 14:25:40 UTC
Thanks CCP Fear, this feature will go a really long way, especially for getting new players up and running quickly

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#26 - 2013-06-14 17:46:07 UTC
Easy to read and edit text file. So we an post them and have our corpies copy/paste them into a file which can then be read into Eve.

If you do a feature, do ALL of the feature, not just some parts.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#27 - 2013-06-14 19:28:31 UTC
settings should be stored on the EVE folder itself, makes the most sense, since the use of the APP data folder its troublesome to be honest...

also synced with server would be best
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2013-06-15 11:08:33 UTC
CCP Fear wrote:
Hello all!

Something that comes up again and again is making how you import/export and share settings better. In some cases it's non-existant. In others it's a overly complex to do. (I'm looking at you Overview.. Especially on a Mac!)

So I've been pondering over it, look around and trying to get a better picture on how it should function within EVE. So here I am and I want your input on it!

Here are a couple of thing I would like your input on, but don't let that discourage you to give general input and feedback on the topic.

1) What settings would you like to have stored?

2) How would you expect the synchronization (import/export) to function? What would the interaction be?

3) How would you go about sharing settings with other players? (directly or in-directly)

These are just some basic questions to get the discussion going. Feel free to add any more within the realm of sharing/import/export of settings.

Best
CCP Fear


Could you just start off with giving me more than 5 overview tabs?

kthxbai

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#29 - 2013-06-15 14:16:24 UTC
1) What settings would you like to have stored?
All.
2) How would you expect the synchronization (import/export) to function? What would the interaction be?
A 'back-up settings' button in the launcher, possibly with checkboxes for stuff like 'overview settings', 'window settings', etc., and an option to choose and return a certain back-up, and the ability to see which settings are stored in that backup.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Adunh Slavy
#30 - 2013-06-16 00:55:11 UTC
CCP Fear wrote:
Hello all!
1) What settings would you like to have stored?

2) How would you expect the synchronization (import/export) to function? What would the interaction be?

3) How would you go about sharing settings with other players? (directly or in-directly)



1 - Everything. However, bring a up a dialog box with check boxes for what elements we want to export.

2 - XML files. Parse the elements, shuffle the results off to whatever property bags you guys use and execute.

3 - Plain ol XML, who cares. Email, FTP. eve mail, carrier pidgeon with a USB stick taped to its tummy.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#31 - 2013-06-16 14:47:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
1) What settings would you like to have stored?
Everything that can be configured in the client.

2) How would you expect the synchronization (import/export) to function? What would the interaction be?
1 config set per character stored serverside with the possibility to import/export from/to a structured editable file (XML, JSON)

3) How would you go about sharing settings with other players? (directly or in-directly)
Exchange parts of config files.

Be able to store settings serverside per corp / alliance with access for corpmates / alliance members to apply them ingame to their own settings would ofc be nice to have.

Remove standings and insurance.
Taloon Rin
Gesellschaft freier Bergleute
#32 - 2013-06-17 08:36:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Taloon Rin
1) What settings would you like to have stored?

Window position, market settings, overview, standing settings, graphic settings
but not all in one. I would prefer a checkbox for each point, give this setting-savefile a name and save it on my computer, but be shareable with others ingame.


2) How would you expect the synchronization (import/export) to function? What would the interaction be?

I would prefer it to be on my computer. less traffic for the server even if its only a few bits.
maybe a load setting for one settingfile that can be saved on the server for the account, but not a request "load setting for acount" everytime I login


3) How would you go about sharing settings with other players? (directly or in-directly)

The savefile should be shareable via evemail, neocom and alike.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2013-06-17 16:20:08 UTC
Account-based separation for local settings

2 accounts, 2 displays but both are different. They sadly seem to share config files and need to be reset with proper adapter selection/resolution every launch. Bit frustrating.

Other than that, overview.

overviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverviewoverview.

Overview.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-06-17 20:11:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Freighdee Katt
(1) LET US AVOID IMPORT / EXPORT WHEREVER WE CAN

To start off, having ALL client settings and UI state stored "in the cloud" as a baseline would be great. This would eliminate most cases where you "want" to import and export, because there is no need either to import or export. BUT, this is only a good thing if we also have named profiles that we can use and clone at will, so that we can either use the same profile on more than one system, or use more than one profile on the same system.

So I should be able to get everything perfect, exactly the way I want, save all my settings into a named profile in the cloud, and then instantly select that profile and have all those setting magically applied to three or five or fifty other clients, either on the same system or on different systems. I also should be able to take each one of those systems, tweak things a little bit, and then save each of those tweaked profiles as the default for whatever system I used it on.

The launcher also should be profile-aware. I should be able to choose both my account and the profile to launch the client with in one step.

(2) WHERE WE STILL NEED EXPORT / IMPORT, JUST KEEP IT SIMPLE

For cases where we still want to export / import, the most useful thing to start with would be the Overview, because that is the tweakiest thing to set up, and the most important to get right or to get exactly the same for all players in a corp / fleet / whatever.

You might want to start with getting overview export / import working perfectly, then move on to other areas of the client settings. If you get the overview part perfect, that might actually be all you ever need to do, because most other settings are "personal" either to me or my machine, such that being able to store, copy, tweak, and select my own profiles at will probably would mean that I never need to export or import anything, other than overviews I want to share with other players.

So, two things on overview import / export:

First, ALL MEANS ALL. If I tell it to export and import ALL SETTINGS, then that means ALL SETTINGS. And when I say ALL settings I mean ALL of them. If I tell it to export everything, that means all tabs, all settings, and everything that applies to them. If I turn around and do an import of that export file, I should get an overview that looks exactly like what it was exported from in every way, including all colors, selections, and settings, window size and positioning aside. I should get the same tabs, with the same names, in the same order, with all the same settings, columns, order, width, backgrounds, types, etc. And it also should let us export and import "global" settings like the colors and backgrounds separately from the settings for each tab. And we should be able to import those separate export files in the same separate way as they were exported.

Second, the export format should be (1) plain text (2) human readable and (3) NOT XML. It should be in a format we can cleanly and easily copy and paste to an email, a blog post, or here on the forums, and someone should be able to copy it out, save as an ordinary text file, and import with zero issues, on any client, on any platform. It should be plainly readable and intelligible by humans, so that a profile that is going to be shared can be audited by those who share and use it, to make sure it is not going to do anything hinky with our view of things in space. It also should be something that I can copy into Notepad, tweak, share, and reimport, without having to use a special tool, weird formats, or a stupid XML editor.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
brinelan
#35 - 2013-06-18 17:46:31 UTC
CCP Fear wrote:
I apologize for my late return to this thread, cought some bug and been stuck in bed. Thankfully I got TNG on blu-ray to keep me company!

Anyways. I love the feedback. It confirms some of the things I had been thinking but also has provided me with great insight into how to use such a feature from your perspective and for that I'm thankful!

So to sum up, I think it's important to store the following (plus more).

  • All relevant settings in the ESC menu (excluding Graphical settings as they are reliant on the computer (might bit way around it though, want to investigate that)).
  • Overview settings
  • Ship module grouping and layout
  • Inventory filters
  • Fittings
  • Neocom
  • Drone groups
  • Chat Channels and their settings
  • Market Quickbar and settings


I would really like to have the sharing/import interaction very simple. Not sure I can get development time to make a big website feature where it's a public voting up and down, or something very complex and implementation intensive. Key is to have it simple to use.

I think the key elements that I think are important here are;


  • Multiple saved profiles which are easily switched between.
  • Everything stored server side. Synching is automatic to the profile being used. (this obviously has to be smart enough so it doesn't just always change. But the assumption is that it should be the same if you log in to a character on a different machine.)
  • Sharing between players is easy, link that can be posted through eve-mail, chat etc.
  • accepting sharing is easy, simple dialog stating what the shared profile is, you can select which "sections" you want.
  • CCP's changes to default settings do not override, but you get some notification on if they have been changed, and you have some way to import it. If you use CCP's default settings, then this change is automatic (perhaps?)
  • Can save/load from file locally if you wish to have hard copies (sharing through that is obviously possible as well.
  • Corporation shared profiles is great! I like any feature that allows for players to be masters of the complexity that is our UI settings and help others!



There also needs to be some simple management view on this, probably in the ESC menu. Complexity of that needs to be considered though. But if it's simple to use, then a novice should be able to accept and apply without problems or need to have a degree in EVE settings. Others that have mastered that can then share with others.

I'm quite excited to get this in! :)


The only thing I would add is input/output settings for industry jobs in posses (can we also please get this preference to stick instead of having to change it on every job?)

Otherwise this looks great. This is one of those great quality of life features that would be awesome.
Phee Phi PhoPhum
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-06-19 19:38:32 UTC
Don't know if its been mentioned yet ITT (reading is effort), but an interesting thing happens
with the XML file. You can properly tell it which columns you want in the overview, but it
ignores the order you specify. Please put that on the 'fix list'.
Wapu Kashuken
Serenity Rising LLC
Controlled Chaos
#37 - 2013-06-19 23:40:31 UTC
- Everything please. Overlay, UI/game settings, window placement, all of it. A suggestion would be to have an export tab on the settings window, then users can check what specific settings they want to export.

- Export/Import to XML (easier to visually verify/share w/ multiple people). The nice thing about this is that its human readable. People can choose to export everything, then compare/reduce/edit the xml file later.

* Currently, the only way to export settings (aside from the overly) is to copy/overwrite the character setting file. Although not supported by CCP, it works and creates a unified experience when running multiple toons. Having a capability similar to this would be extremely beneficial.

Thanx for putting this on the dev radar, been a feature I wanted since day 1.
Donedy
Lulzsec Space
#38 - 2013-06-20 09:50:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Donedy
First, thanks to finally think about that, the way its atm is really painfull.

Quote:
1) What settings would you like to have stored?

Everything.

Quote:
2) How would you expect the synchronization (import/export) to function? What would the interaction be?

Im not sure i understand the question here, the export should generate a file that you could import on another client. Like every import/export function.

Quote:
3) How would you go about sharing settings with other players? (directly or in-directly)

Having a file you can share would be fine. Not sure you want to store it on your servers as you have already a limit for fittings for instance.
Wu Fey
Devil's Evil Spirits
#39 - 2013-06-20 22:30:19 UTC
CCP Fear wrote:


1) What settings would you like to have stored?

2) How would you expect the synchronization (import/export) to function? What would the interaction be?

3) How would you go about sharing settings with other players? (directly or in-directly)



1. Contact List / watch list.
2. Just replacing a file in the eve directory would be fine (contacts.csv)
3. E-mail

Please. Just let us export / import contacts and watch lists. XML, CSV, in-game, out-of-game, doesn't matter. My index finger is killing me.
BlakPhoenix
Load Up Blast Everything
DARKNESS.
#40 - 2013-06-21 07:19:03 UTC
No copy paste. I want my UI to be the same no matter what computer I log into EVE from. If the window is different size then scale the windows to fit or give me an option to "lock size" so that I just end up with less viewable space. I HATE having to set up my overview and windows on every new computer I use or log in from.