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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Idea: you only show up in local if:

Author
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-06-19 15:35:10 UTC
*You use a gate.
*You use a station
It seems reasonable that a gate/station could log who passes through, broadcasting when people enter and leave....
But there are other ways into and out of systems...

ie cynos and WHs

If you cyno in a system, you don't show up in local -> you still show up in the local of the system you were last in, until you use another station/gate.
Ditto on WHs.

If you enter a system through a gate and cloak up -> you still show up in local

You get a blops to bridge you in... you don't show up - the blops may leave via a gate, thus dissappearing from local, and nobody would know the bridged SBs are in...

etc
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#2 - 2013-06-19 15:41:50 UTC
So basically, BLops and capitals would never show up in local.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.

Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-06-19 15:42:06 UTC
sounds reasonable but i have the feeling that local is here to stay.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#4 - 2013-06-19 15:50:39 UTC
How does this handle people who log in and out?

Are they flagged present in the system they last used a gate / station in, or do they automatically show up in local where they happen to be?

If it flags them to last system where the gate or station was used, I am all for it.
Gareth Burns
Bumpacarz
Bears Don't Count Inc.
#5 - 2013-06-19 16:39:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Gareth Burns
I sorta like it.

Things I like:

☼ People who have entered via WH space or via covert ops cyno not showing up in local:

Reason:
Wormhole space is not registered via CONCORD. No pilot in his right mind would pop into a low or null sec system from a wormhole and broadcast to CONCORD to say HEY I'M HERE PUT ME IN LOCAL.
Covert Cynos are exactly that... Covert. No reason why CONCORD or anyone else would know you just got bridged in via a covert cyno.

Things I don't like:

☼ Leaving a ghost image of your ship behind in the local of the last system you got registered in.

Reason:
Just doesn't seem like it would flow right. There's not much reason, that I can think of, for it either. When I enter into WH space I don't ghost to the system I left I just go off the grid.

☼ Normal Cyno jumps not showing up.

Reason:
These things are not covert at all, they should not be granted a covert quality like this.


Additional Notes:

Logging in would renew the last local status you were when you logged out:

Example: You weren't in local cause you jumped in through a WH, you aren't in local when you re-log.

Noblesse Oblige ► Gareth Burns

Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-06-19 16:45:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
Nikk Narrel wrote:
How does this handle people who log in and out?

Are they flagged present in the system they last used a gate / station in, or do they automatically show up in local where they happen to be?

If it flags them to last system where the gate or station was used, I am all for it.


Yes, when you jump in through a gate, you get a flag that stays with you through log in/log out

Gareth Burns wrote:
☼ Normal Cyno jumps not showing up.

Reason: These things are not covert at all, they should not be granted a covert quality like this.


Well, they aren't covert, everyone can see when a cyno is lit.....
Perhaps local may list how many unidentified contacts have entered via non-covert cyno...
just an *unknown entry* in local
Maybe local can also timestamp the last registered action.

something like:
*unknown entry* -> show info -> cyno jump entry at TT:TT DD/MM/YY
Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations
#7 - 2013-06-19 16:58:49 UTC
You only show up in local if you are in the system!!! Fixed it!! Go meeeeeeeeee
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#8 - 2013-06-19 17:09:17 UTC
I proposed similar idea in one of those afkcloakythreads, but it got buried:

- you do not appear in local if you get there via WH/Cyno
- you cannot see local while you're not connected to it yourself
- you will be connected to local if you type something there or get uncloaked in grid with station/gate/POS/POCO/iHub/TCU or any other pilot already listed in local (pilots with active cyno or covert cyno modules are an exception)
- if you want to conceal yourself from local in current system - scan a wormwhole and do a roundtrip in and out of it
- you local chat connection status is saved when you log out.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Gareth Burns
Bumpacarz
Bears Don't Count Inc.
#9 - 2013-06-19 19:10:15 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Gareth Burns wrote:
☼ Normal Cyno jumps not showing up.

Reason: These things are not covert at all, they should not be granted a covert quality like this.


Well, they aren't covert, everyone can see when a cyno is lit.....
Perhaps local may list how many unidentified contacts have entered via non-covert cyno...
just an *unknown entry* in local
Maybe local can also timestamp the last registered action.

something like:
*unknown entry* -> show info -> cyno jump entry at TT:TT DD/MM/YY


I can accept that.

Noblesse Oblige ► Gareth Burns

Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-06-19 22:33:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
So when looking at the proposal from a risk/reward perspective, how does this not lower risk while increasing reward for covert ops ship?

The main result of this change is omfgwtfbbq faceroll easy bomber hot drops everywhere.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#11 - 2013-06-19 23:23:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Give us the ability to leave local, the same way we can leave region/constellation chat, and everything will be fixed. You'll have your intel at the price of everyone else knowing you're there too, you'll have your stealthy maneuvers at the price of not knowing if anyone's even there to take stealthy maneuvers against, and local's all-seeing eye will be all-seeing no more.

It will also have the nice side effect of people complaining much much less about Jita spam, possibly leaving freighter/industrial pilots more unaware (read: blind and vulnerable) to ganks, make highsec wars moderately more interesting ("Do I turn on local and see if there are WTs about, or stay hidden?") and introduce a new strategic element to FW by making sure farmers/hunters never really know if anyone is in-system.
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-06-20 02:00:00 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
sounds reasonable but i have the feeling that local is here to stay.

People think the main use of Local these days is for intelligence.

But are right, but not as they assume.

People don't check local for Intelligence.

Local is an Intelligence check.


If you want it changed you are either too bad to realize Wormholes are in the game, or too lazy to go there.

Either way everyone on the forums knows you failed the Intelligence check.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-06-20 06:29:17 UTC
Har har, what a good tactic:
"If they disagree and I have no argument against it, call them stupid"

Yes, WH space exists, and in many ways its better.

"does this not lower risk while increasing reward for covert ops ship?"
Well, I don't see how it lowers the risk much, but yes, it could improve the reward.

There is no reason you should be able to be perfectly safe 99.9% of the time in null sec (with the unsafe times beinf when the system is being invaded, and a POS won't save you), simply by looking at local.

WH mechanics are the way local *should* work. I'd like to spread them to all of null sec, but I'm suggesting this as a comprimise:
Use a gate, get registered as in system for everyone to see on local.

You want security? have people scanning for WHs to stop entry that way, have people keeping a record of what ships have entered via a gate, and if they could have cyno'd anyone else in, etc.


It shouldn't be a matter of: log on, check local, farm in complete safety, dock up if someone else enters local.

That is a very unbalanced system that makes the risk vs reward of using a covops way to high, because there is no reward other than the "reward" one gets from being an AFK cloaker and "disrupting" the nullbear operations