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Missions & Complexes

 
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Best Mission boat as in Speed

Author
Lugalzagezi666
#21 - 2013-06-18 18:09:35 UTC
ExcalibursTemplar wrote:
I don't get what your trying to say there, you can use half your missiles on a CNR to instant pop frigs. Elite frigs do take a couple of volleys of a full rack but to be honest you can just use drones on them to kill them just as fast while you take out the battleships and battlecruiser/cruisers.
Just out of interest do you know what your completion time for Sansha Pirate invasion is ?

I know for a fact from accepting the mission and killing absolutely everything to handing it in takes me 12 minutes.

If I remember I got it down to 8-9 minutes in the nightmare, but today I just blitz it by jumping between the station ruins and killing objective rats.

And what I was trying to say - cnr needs 2 full volleys of 8 launchers (16s and 2-3 target painters) to kill elite frig, assuming frig wont pulse its mwd or rep. Nightmare can do it with alpha of just 2 guns (of 4, with 6.5s rof, without use of target painters), mach can do it in 3 seconds etc.

You dont want to ungroup your launchers as it will only spawn more defenders and you cant really control your outgoing damage anyway, because missiles have delayed damage and you dont know if rat simply wont pulse its mwd and mitigate half of your volley, shoot defender or pulse its rep.

Dont get me wrong, cruise missile ships are great mission runners (as morrigan said, look into fleet phoon, that thing manages to kill rats noticeably faster in most missions), but everything has advantages and disadvantages too...
Kaiser Diuus
Swarm of Angry Bees
#22 - 2013-06-18 18:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaiser Diuus
Rattlesnake is easily the fasted if done right, especially if you are just rushing through mission it will maximize profit.
High slots run 4 cruise missiles launchers or torps if you want, but probably cruise with the buff now. That gives you 2 utility to salvage a few things since you probably wont be coming back with a noctis. Active tank it, yes... active tank that rattle. Run all bcs and drone damage amps in the lows. Use sentries for you main damage, probably gardes and bouncers. This fit will allow you to tank anything, maybe change out a resist now and then. You will do 1200+ dps and the main part of your dps has no ammo cost. Obviously you will need to spend some money on the tank, but not all that much and will still come out cheaper and better than the previously listed ships.

Also you dont have problems with target ships size, just swap drones. If you want to throw more money on the tank, add a target painter.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-06-18 18:47:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
@Lugalzagezi666

You're missing (or I'm being unclear) my point - you simply DONT shoot missiles at the frigs, use gardes and omnis and eat them up.


Edit: I'm also not sure how a 1200dps rattler is going to compete with a 13-14xx phoon but...okay.... Question


Edit 2: aaaaaanyway, the point I was aiming for is that it's a much closer field than it used to be, these days anyway.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#24 - 2013-06-18 23:56:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Lazers
Signal11th wrote:
What's the best one as in for speed to clear the mission, money no object.


Mach is still the king of missions.

Also when you get it expensive fit the difference between the others gets much bigger.
For example you can get deadspace MWD and some A-type or X-type shield booster. Those 2 things will make your Mach the true king.
My Mach has 2 officer mods, with them my ship is cap stable with X-type x-large SB on. You also get 1500+ m/s velocity with MWD which makes your DPS almost the same as on paper since you don't waste your time on traveling.

P.S. even with this cruise buff the missiles still fail to apply the full damage because of AFs rats use, Defenders and very small sig.
For example 2 defenders will kill 50% of damage of golem's volley. So the more launchers you have the lower damage loss will be.

All in all nothing compares to Mach. I still can't complete AE in pimped CNR for less than 20 mins.

Whatever.

stoicfaux
#25 - 2013-06-19 00:49:54 UTC
MWD Mach. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58393-Machariel-Level-4-Blitzer-MWD-Web-EW-Drones-Minmatar-Space.html

Set keep at range to 12km, MWD in, use the web and TP/Web drones to lock down the target, and kill kill kill.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-06-19 01:05:55 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
While missles are flying towards the frigates the 800s/Neutrons/Tachyons are volleying them before they get up to speed.

That isn't how DPS works.

Once you know how many volleys you need there is no DPS loss, only DPS delayed.

This means with equal DPS a missile finish a mission ~5 seconds slower total. Not per ship.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#27 - 2013-06-19 03:49:29 UTC
show some bounty ticks.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#28 - 2013-06-19 05:50:25 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
show some bounty ticks.


Avoiding dread pirate scarlet because of her 5 mil bounty for 1 salvo Roll

2013.02.15 15:52:04 Bounty Prizes 14,591,250.00 ISK

did that in a t2 fit domi some time ago, had I had more firepower it would still have been the same amount, because I was entering a pocket in a different system when the wallet flashed. The problem with mission ticks is that they get curtailed by the red crosses running out before the 20 minutes are up.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-06-19 06:02:18 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
show some bounty ticks.


Avoiding dread pirate scarlet because of her 5 mil bounty for 1 salvo Roll

2013.02.15 15:52:04 Bounty Prizes 14,591,250.00 ISK

did that in a t2 fit domi some time ago, had I had more firepower it would still have been the same amount, because I was entering a pocket in a different system when the wallet flashed. The problem with mission ticks is that they get curtailed by the red crosses running out before the 20 minutes are up.


try pulling like 4 missions at a time and try to get them in the same system (hard I know but might be doable within 1 jump)
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-06-19 06:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
I find ticks are limited by a lack of rats - plus I usually dual box so....hrm, skewed.

Did the assault in 21 minutes last night, drunk to boot and my alts skills are....not 'mission oriented' Smile

Would have been faster, but wine made me forget to lift longer range drones.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-06-19 06:10:09 UTC
assault is very straightforward in a domi
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#32 - 2013-06-19 07:18:10 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
show some bounty ticks.


Avoiding dread pirate scarlet because of her 5 mil bounty for 1 salvo Roll

2013.02.15 15:52:04 Bounty Prizes 14,591,250.00 ISK

did that in a t2 fit domi some time ago, had I had more firepower it would still have been the same amount, because I was entering a pocket in a different system when the wallet flashed. The problem with mission ticks is that they get curtailed by the red crosses running out before the 20 minutes are up.


try pulling like 4 missions at a time and try to get them in the same system (hard I know but might be doable within 1 jump)


I levered up my alts standings with this character, so its much easier to just trigger a mission with my alt, and then do missions with this till they coincide, its not too hard a test to synthesize, but pocket clearing isn't best isk anyway.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#33 - 2013-06-19 08:35:50 UTC
Voith wrote:
Sexy Cakes wrote:
While missles are flying towards the frigates the 800s/Neutrons/Tachyons are volleying them before they get up to speed.

That isn't how DPS works.

Once you know how many volleys you need there is no DPS loss, only DPS delayed.

This means with equal DPS a missile finish a mission ~5 seconds slower total. Not per ship.


and sometimes they fire a defender, or get a rep cycle in. if you have your guns ungrouped it isn't uncommon for only one more shot to be needed, and with turrets you only fire that one more shot. with missiles I group them and can waste many rounds. if you can count individual missile launches, well good for you, it is far more effort, and a bit too random for me to even want to try bothering with it more than I have. it is nearly impossible to do, if an npc is in strucuter a full volley is almost always overkill, but will it need 3, 4, or 8 more missiles to fully kill? with turrets the game finds out for you and only fires that many shots.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-06-19 10:08:33 UTC
you'll get a feel of how many missiles are needed to kill certain npcs, comes with experience.
Sir Nuke
The Vacation Corporation
#35 - 2013-06-19 10:18:44 UTC
using missiles for missions is nice on paper with that theoretical DPS, but railguns will be able to kill a frigate every 4 secs and by the time your missiles get to the targets a turret ship would already have killed them.

jammers are annoying tho.
Lugalzagezi666
#36 - 2013-06-19 10:20:30 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

and sometimes they fire a defender, or get a rep cycle in. if you have your guns ungrouped it isn't uncommon for only one more shot to be needed, and with turrets you only fire that one more shot. with missiles I group them and can waste many rounds. if you can count individual missile launches, well good for you, it is far more effort, and a bit too random for me to even want to try bothering with it more than I have. it is nearly impossible to do, if an npc is in strucuter a full volley is almost always overkill, but will it need 3, 4, or 8 more missiles to fully kill? with turrets the game finds out for you and only fires that many shots.


This... and add mwd cycles where you easily lose 50% of the volley when npc is decelerating. Its beyond me how people dont see it, its like they are all theorycrafting and havent actualy used said ships/weapons.

I also dont believe in "counting individual shots" considering you have to manage 2-3 target painters (with different cycle time), your missiles hit with delayed damage (with target at point blank its 3 seconds) and you have NO IDEA if target will get rep, pulses mwd or fires defender (ungouped launchers = bigger chance of defender). And if it does and you already shot your missiles at another target (not target painted I guess), you have to wait 8 secs before shooting another volley at the first target and you are giving npc more chance for another rep cycle/defender... Overkill damage is another great point as it happens against every bc and t1 cruiser and most battleships.

Morrigan LeSante wrote:
@Lugalzagezi666

You're missing (or I'm being unclear) my point - you simply DONT shoot missiles at the frigs, use gardes and omnis and eat them up.

You are right, I dont. Do you know why? Because it takes 5x more time to kill an elite frig with cruise misiles than with guns. Assuming frig wont pulse its mwd/get a rep cycle.
If I could kill the frigs in reasonable time with cruises, I would do it and I would never launch anything else but salvage drones (fleet phoon is completely different beast, because its sentrys have almost 3x more dps than sentries on cnr and they can reliably kill even elite cruisers on their own).


I used t2 rof rig and cap booster (that I switched to sensor booster later). Not sure about web or drones as I never really felt it needs more tracking (keep at range + faster than most npc ships = perfect tracking).
ExcalibursTemplar
CANZUK
#37 - 2013-06-19 12:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ExcalibursTemplar
Sir Nuke wrote:
using missiles for missions is nice on paper with that theoretical DPS, but railguns will be able to kill a frigate every 4 secs and by the time your missiles get to the targets a turret ship would already have killed them.

jammers are annoying tho.


I really don't understand why people keep going on about frigates. In my CNR I'm killing battleships in around 2 to 4 volleys. Isn't that the most important thing considering everything else except for elite frigs instant pops in one volley ?

EDIT: Half a volley with a target paint for normal frigs.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-06-19 17:38:19 UTC
Lugalzagezi666 wrote:
If I could kill the frigs in reasonable time with cruises, I would do it and I would never launch anything else but salvage drones (fleet phoon is completely different beast, because its sentrys have almost 3x more dps than sentries on cnr and they can reliably kill even elite cruisers on their own).


The two omnis I can tack onto my CNR actually make it less of a gap with the phoon, strictly on frigs (the bore in hard and fast so garde range is a non issue), than you'd think. The phoon pulls away on bigger targets.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#39 - 2013-06-19 20:45:04 UTC
ExcalibursTemplar wrote:
Sir Nuke wrote:
using missiles for missions is nice on paper with that theoretical DPS, but railguns will be able to kill a frigate every 4 secs and by the time your missiles get to the targets a turret ship would already have killed them.

jammers are annoying tho.


I really don't understand why people keep going on about frigates. In my CNR I'm killing battleships in around 2 to 4 volleys. Isn't that the most important thing considering everything else except for elite frigs instant pops in one volley ?

EDIT: Half a volley with a target paint for normal frigs.


Not at all. Its the total time to kill all the ships in the mission. Especially when volleys are 9 seconds apart compared to 3; plus travel time of the initial volley.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Lugalzagezi666
#40 - 2013-06-20 07:01:21 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
The two omnis I can tack onto my CNR actually make it less of a gap with the phoon

The gap is still so big that drones on tfi can murder frigate/cruiser/elite cruiser/bc npcs really efficiently on their own. Unlike drones on cnr.

I cant imagine I would actually use sentries on cnr against elite cruisers in sansha blockade - it takes ridiculously long for them to kill a single 250k cruiser. Sentries on tfi can kill them on their own so I dont have to waste a single volley on them. Same for blockades last spawn scram frigs - they just pop to tfis sentries, while they happily get rep cycles against cnrs sentries and I sometimes have to launch lights to kill the surviving frigs (if they point me). When volley of cruises leaves npc bs in hull, I can switch tfis sentries to it and they are actually able to kill it really fast - against cnr sentries npc bs happily gets rep cycles and it takes really long time for them to kill it.

Sentries on cnr simply dont work well as "independent" dps and synchronising their dps with launchers in really problematic because of delayed damage, so you never really know if they actually helped you to shoot 1 volley less or not. They are good for inflating eft dps values though.
It is not the case with gunships, because not a single shot from turret have to be wasted if you dont want to and their instant damage allows you to precisely control outcoming dps.

Tfi is specific case (and drone boats ofc, difference is that on droneboats guns are "secondary"), because on tfi sentries can work as independent dps force, so they have much higher combat value.