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Ice belt systems in lowsec
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Jori McKie

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 298

#1 - 2013-06-19 05:34:00 UTC | Edited by: Jori McKie

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Jori McKie

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 298

#2 - 2013-06-19 06:18:58 UTC | Edited by: Jori McKie

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Sama Guild 135
Evangelina Nolen Sama Guild Likes received: 135	#3 - 2013-06-19 06:25:00 UTC hardly anyone mines in lowsec for a reason. Even then, they only mine enough for themselves or corp.

1,639
Adunh Slavy Likes received: 1,639	#4 - 2013-06-19 06:47:38 UTC Jori McKie wrote: Minmatar Space No idea what sort of ice is in Derelik Clear Icicle Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt

Jori McKie

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 298

#5 - 2013-06-19 07:04:41 UTC | Edited by: Jori McKie

Evangelina Nolen wrote:

hardly anyone mines in lowsec for a reason. Even then, they only mine enough for themselves or corp.

And the reason is/was it was not profitable, i know that. Point is, it is only a matter of time ice prices will rise and it will be profitable. I think some guys already started mining in Keri as i lived nearby and 200 jumps per 24h is a lot for that system. With 3 ice belts in system and enough miner you can chain them very easy or just mine out all 3 at once.

Adunh Slavy wrote:

Jori McKie wrote:

Minmatar Space

No idea what sort of ice is in Derelik

Clear Icicle

So it is Amarr stuff, too. Bad luck for the Minmatar guys....

Short Note:
I did check Gallente/Caldari space but it is the same as Minmatar space, Black Rise, Placid, Verge Vendor, Sinq Liason, Lonetrek, The Citadel, Essence are all FW and/or full of flashies ;). Only Everyshore is less populated.

Everyshore
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Alachene
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Mannar

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

258
Oxide Ammar Likes received: 258	#6 - 2013-06-19 07:10:26 UTC Jori McKie wrote: Stuff.. Low sec in the middle of the week is not the same low sec in the weekend. Lady Areola Fappington: Solo PVP isn't dead! You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.


Jori McKie Hedion University Amarr Empire Likes received: 298	#7 - 2013-06-19 07:11:57 UTC Oxide Ammar wrote: Jori McKie wrote: Stuff.. Low sec in the middle of the week is not the same low sec in the weekend. The 200 jumps were from Friday to Saturday but you are right, you shouldn't mine at prime time at all. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Bugsy VanHalen

Society of lost Souls

Likes received: 1,068

#8 - 2013-06-19 13:36:07 UTC

Even with low traffic there is always at least a scout or two that will pass through every 5-10 minutes. if they see a mining ship on D-scan it is only a matter of time before the gank fleet arrives. The only way you can mine ICE safely in low sec is at a dead end system, with friendlies gate camping the entrance. Thsi is not high sec where a beefy tank will help you survive until CONCORD shows up, there is no CONCORD here. Even a cloaky frigate can kill you solo with little to no risk of losing there own ship.

Jori McKie

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 298

#9 - 2013-06-19 14:11:05 UTC

Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

Nope in those low traffic systems you may see a scout at average every 1h and only in prime time, these aren't high frequent FW or combat areas. Just check dotlan for jumps in the last 24h anything below 200 is no real traffic.
You do not want to mine in any prime time the rest of the day those systems are empty as hell. And yes everything can kill you that's why to fit a cloak on your mining ship and have an eye on the local, you don't sport a tank at all. The only thing you can't avoid are Stealth Bombers with cynos but even in the worst case you loose 1 or 2 mining ships to Black Ops if your other mining ships are cloaking in time.

At the end it is just a matter of ISK/h, loosing a ship here and there vs unlimited and unharrassed mining time from the highsec blob and most important mining when you want. Again you have to search for low traffic systems you do not want to mine in any FW or combat areas at all.

Pro tip, send a cloak ship into the systems you want to mine and check the traffic. Check the guys which seem to live there and check the guys who are roaming through, i bet in most cases the "pirates" are just exploration/PvE guys. And i know what i'm talking about i'm living in lowsec my whole Eve time.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Deal with IT. 781
Kara Books Deal with IT. Likes received: 781	#10 - 2013-06-20 07:37:51 UTC \| Edited by: Kara Books If your paranoid just keep wacking Dscan with appropriate range, soon as anything more then some ****** frigate shows up on scan Vamous the whole fleet to a safespot with what is now legal multi-box software. If said frigate decides to agro, Agro that frigate with like 100 drones from your escort fleet cruiser or falcon or something.

Bugsy VanHalen

Society of lost Souls

Likes received: 1,068

#11 - 2013-06-20 17:02:07 UTC | Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen

Jori McKie wrote:

Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

Cloak on a mining ship? Seriously?

As you say it is all about the isk/hr. Putting a cloak on means you lose a strip miner. Thats a 33% drop in efficiency for a HULK, 50% for a Mack and 100% for a Skiff. if my HULK is going to mine 33% less yield on top of the lost time from POSing up when under threat, my isk/hr drops below what I can make in high sec.

And by the way 200 jumps in 24 hours in on average 8 per hour not one per hour. Considering most of them will be during prime time I guess you might if you are lucky only see 2-3 per hour at the most dead times, but several dozen per hour during prime time.

That is still enough to cause you problems now that the safety net provided by grav sites is gone. D-scam was a very good way to watch for threats pre Odyssey, as they had to scan you down, you would see the probes. However most low and null sec scouts are cloaked ships, cloaked ships do not show on D-scan. This leads to a much higher level of risk post Odyssey.

Besides, if doing it your way was so profitable isk/hr wise, then why does nobody do it? Mining in low sec and NPC null is almost unheard of. Why? Because the risk is to high! If is wasn't more players would be doing it. That fact that nobody does it, is all the proof needed that the level of risk is to high.

Bugsy VanHalen

Society of lost Souls

Likes received: 1,068

#12 - 2013-06-20 17:08:00 UTC

Kara Books wrote:

If your paranoid just keep wacking Dscan with appropriate range, soon as anything more then some ****** frigate shows up on scan Vamous the whole fleet to a safespot with what is now legal multi-box software.

If said frigate decides to agro, Agro that frigate with like 100 drones from your escort fleet cruiser or falcon or something.

if you had a large enough escort fleet to field 100 Drones safety would not be much of an issue, but those of us not mining deep inside SOV space do not have that. hell most miners that do mine deep inside SOV space still do not have that.

The number of miners in game, that mutibox that many accounts, I can probably count without even taking my socks off.

If CCP wants to stimulate and encourage null sec industry to grow, they need to stop countering every improvement with a bash of the nerf bat.

Styth spiting

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 420

#13 - 2013-06-20 19:17:45 UTC

Jori McKie wrote:

Ice harvesters can only fit on barges and Exhumers. Can't be fitted on a Venture.
Any decrease in yield or time reduction from removing rig, harvesters, or IHUII will make the isk/hour less then that of highsec mining.
With a cloaking device you would not be able to dump into a jet can, orca, or freighter container and would need to be so spread out that the only option would be to stop once your hold is full and warp to/from a POS or station, again decreasing your hourly yield.
Every time someone jumps into system you need to dock up or warp to a POS again decreasing your hourly yield with every jump.

Overall unless your corp/alliance has a large presence in a low sec system and you have people available to deal with non-aliance/corp members you are better off mining in out of the way high sec systems. The number of miners in ice fields have already decreased considerably so ice running out even isn't much of an issue now that the speculation prices have gone down (unless you mine with a large fleet, or want to mine 10+ straight hours). I've done ice mining twice in the last 3 days and both times I was able to mine 2 hours non-stopped with 4 miners in a ice belt with 4 other players (the 2nd time there were 5) and quit not because there was no more ice, but because I was done for the night.

So overall, no reason to go to lowsec to mine ice unless you're living in lowsec.

Marsan

Likes received: 274

#14 - 2013-06-20 21:16:44 UTC

On the other hand if Ice goes up enough I can see groups staking out LS ice systems. Any where out of the way with a station would work. You mine until you get visitor. Warp your good mining ships to station and get your pvp ships. If they won't engage go back to mining with cheap ships as bait. When you need to move the Ice out use a jump freighter. Or id you are a pvp group near one rent the system out to some miners.

Of course none of this is going to happen while veld is worth more than ice....

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Doomheim 2,225
Felicity Love Doomheim Likes received: 2,225	#15 - 2013-06-20 21:44:59 UTC Marsan wrote: Of course none of this is going to happen while veld is worth more than ice.... Which might take awhile given current stockpiles. Of course, CCP could always get ballsy and simply make the ice anoms smaller by another 20%... "EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse. ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. )

Jori McKie

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 298

#16 - 2013-06-20 22:14:39 UTC | Edited by: Jori McKie

A lot of replies wasn't expecting that.
The cloak modul is a question of ISK/h. Here is the thing, the usual precautions without a cloak are
- Don't be near the warp in of the Site, stay aligned
- Pay attention to local and dscan

Without a cloak you have to warp out to your POS or dock up at Station, with a cloak fit you just cloak when anything is coming closer than 0.1AU on your Dscan, you don't have to stay aligned. The advantage is you don't have to warp out every time someone is entering your local and you don't have to stay aligned. Even if you don't pay attention to your Dscan and someone entered your Site and is on grid with you, you have enough time to cloak, assuming you are far off the warp in and have set your Overview accordingly.
You are able to cloak your ship until a lock on you is completed, after you are cloaked the chance of being decloaked is near zero. Of course this won't always save you from a Stealth Bomber and Cyno, but if the Bomber is decloaked by an object at the warp in aka a conti or 2 or 3 chances are very good you will survive.

Disadvantage is obviously less mining yield. You do the math, compare how much mining yield you loose against the time to warp out and in again and the convenience to be less on alert, plus lesser ship losses and biggest plus you can mine whenever you want most of the time. I don't have the math if the cloak fit is profitable or not, but consider the scenario that ICE is 1k p/u and most highsec belts are mined out within 20mins by the highsec blob. In lowsec you don't have to wait for the respawn or be lucky, you can mine when you have time again with less yield.
In other words with a cloak fit you can mine very safe at the expense of less yield.

You can mine into a can or whatever as long as you are at 2.01km to any object you can always cloak. Problem is of course the can is giving your intruder a good hint where you may are after you cloaked. Better idea would be, mine until your cargo is full, drop your stuff in a conti and stay away from that conti afterwards.

Tl:dr:
- A cloak fit means more convenience and less ship losses vs less mining yield. If done correct you are close to zero losses.
- Lowsec means you can mine whenever you want most of the time, you don't have to wait or search when your favoured highsec system has no active Site.
Let me point out the convenience again, you don't have to stay aligned, you don't have to warp out every time someone enters local, you can even ignore the local and just wait who is appearing on grid with you. Cloak and check if the visitor is unfriendly or not.

@Bugsy VanHalen
200jumps in 24h at the weekend is really no traffic at all in a deadend system, that are roughly 100 visitors assuming all who jumped in, jumped out too. You have to stop to assume that the 100 visitors are all unfriendly, if i'm correct and someone started mining in Keri most of the jumps are friendly anyway.

Edit:
A cloaked ship is a pain in the ass for every hunter, imagine you are having a nice mining fleet on Dscan, while you are warping to the Site all of them disappear.... that is so annoying most guys will give up after the first try and look out for easier prey. The cloaking "technique" is used by FW Plex farming guys, they are in a Plex orbiting the beacon, cloaking when someone is entering the Plex. laughing while they wait until you warp out and immediatly decloak.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Jori McKie

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 298

#17 - 2013-06-24 11:34:03 UTC

Was just skimming through patch notes, found this
http://community.eveonline.com/news/patch-notes/patch-notes-for

Quote:

Patch notes For EVE Online: Odyssey 1.0.8
Released on Wednesday, June 19th 2013

Exploration

Ice belts will now properly spawn in three systems in Aridia and will contain null-sec grade ice

Does that mean lowsec have null sec grade ice depending on the system sec?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Science & Industry

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

Sama Guild

Society of lost Souls

Deal with IT.

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Doomheim