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Why am I out mining in lowsec?

Author
Snuse
Sofakroken Mineralutvinning AS
#1 - 2013-06-16 21:02:45 UTC
Same value rocks with more risk. Where is the reward, or is there any?
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#2 - 2013-06-16 21:37:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
How about the story you can tell after being hunted and getting out in safety? After all, EVE is a MMORPG.

Remove standings and insurance.

Rengerel en Distel
#3 - 2013-06-16 22:15:17 UTC
3 of the top 5 rocks are in lowsec ... perhaps you're doing it wrong?

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-06-16 22:31:28 UTC
Snuse wrote:
Same value rocks with more risk. Where is the reward, or is there any?


Don't forget the wonderment of carting it all back to high-sec to sell later.

.

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-06-17 00:12:11 UTC
... hears there are awesome beaches and great food in Low Sec. Cool

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#6 - 2013-06-17 02:33:51 UTC
Mine Veldspar, it refines for ungodly amounts of of trit which is still 5 ISK PU in Jita.

If you mine say for a day and place 100M units of trit on the market at 4.5, then your almost there to doing it right.
Snuse
Sofakroken Mineralutvinning AS
#7 - 2013-06-17 05:53:15 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
3 of the top 5 rocks are in lowsec ... perhaps you're doing it wrong?


Well, I am kind of hoping that I am currently doing it wrong. What rocks should I be mining, that are plentiful only in lowsec, that would be more profitable than chewing away on Veldspar in highsec?
Eric Raeder
No Fee Too High
#8 - 2013-06-17 06:02:11 UTC
You can find ore that is more valuable than anything in highsec in lowsec: jaspet, hemorphite and hedbergite. But the hassle of avoiding getting ganked by some passerby in a thorax or whatever usually means you cannot make as much isk per hour, since you spend a fair fraction of your time hiding, and can't safely engage in semi-afk activities like trading like you can in highsec.

However, this is a game, and the object is to have fun. If you enjoy ninja mining hedbergite while craftily evading the homicidal sods who want to add you to their killboard count, go for it.

Oh, and don't forget ice. Ice prices are going up like a rocket, and I would bet that lowsec ice anomolies don't get mined out nearly as quick as the highsec ones.
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-06-17 06:05:42 UTC
If you want to make relaxing isk I'd mine in hisec and null. If you want to play cat and mouse and make poop isk I'd go to lowsec.
Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#10 - 2013-06-17 08:11:27 UTC
http://ore.cerlestes.de/index.html#site:ore

Arrange by price per m3 and mine that.
Praxis Ginimic
Best Kept Frozen.
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#11 - 2013-06-17 15:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Praxis Ginimic
I saw a large gniess deposit anom sit practically untouched in a low sec system for 3 full days. Some alliance members tried to mine in it but the rest of us kept sneaking up in SB's then decloaking and saying "boo" in local, landing at 0 in catalyst/brutix gank fleets, and seeing how far we could bump them. They gave up pretty quickly.

I guess its too stressful even when there are only friendlies in system. Twisted

Honestly though, every time I see an exhumer on D the first thing I think it's bait...but then again, I always seem to take the bait even when it is an obvious trap
Ginger Barbarella
#12 - 2013-06-17 16:30:05 UTC
Snuse wrote:
Same value rocks with more risk. Where is the reward, or is there any?


Have you considered that when mommy dropped you on yer head as a youngling it caused permanent damage? :-p Stories are just bragging rights on the Forums: they mean nothing to your game.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#13 - 2013-06-17 17:57:21 UTC
Why are you out mining in low sec? Simple, you are not, nobody is. Why?

Even simpler, it is to dangerous. The risks out weight the rewards.

Sure, if you could mine non stop like you can in high sec the better ores would net you at least 50% better income. Even if there was no risk from other players the rats alone would require you to tank your ship, costing you some yield.

Add to that the fact that low sec is a PVP zone dominated by pirates and gankers more interested in easy PVP than getting organized enough to claim some null sec space. You can not mine in low sec the way you do in high sec, you will get poped before you even fill your ore hold once.

If you are very careful and only mine in the hidden grav sites where you need to be scanned down, you can get some mining in, maybe even make a profit, but you will still spend more time hiding than mining, giving you a lower isk/hr than mining in highsec. And that was before they removed grav sites and made them all anomalies that no longer need to be scanned down. Even if you are mining in a Skiff, the time it would take you to mine enough ore just to pay for your ship will leave you exposed long enough that your chances of getting caught and popped are way over 50%.

Many, including Fozzie insist this is not true. But I say prove it. That fact that mining activity in low sec is all but non existent proves that the risk vs reward makes low sec mining not worth while. Null sec mining is not much better, unless you are deep inside alliance space.

The reason low sec mining is not done is because to do so, inb a way that will not leave you sitting in your pod before you even pay for your ship, will leave you with an isk/hr ratio far below what you can make in high sec. Miners are risk adverse as it is, but the only ting they really care about is isk/hr. If they have the tools they need to mitigate that risk for a higher isk/hr many will leave the safety of high sec to do so, but only if they can mitigate the risk. That does not include relying on corp or alliance mates for protection. Even if they can successfully mitigate the risk, the rewards must be high enough offset that added risk. These margins are very small.

There is a reason why 99% of miners are in high sec, it simply is not worthwhile for them to leave. Those who find opportunities, or are clever enough to create opportunities will venture out. But only if the isk/hr is worth the effort. Even then their numbers are small.

At least 95% of the demand for high end minerals is met by miners living deep inside friendly sov space. Most high sec miners do not have access to space like this. large null sec alliances do not recruit miners, there recruit PVPers who may or may not have miner alts. For the rest mining outside of high sec is just not an option.

Madeline Borshuul
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-06-17 19:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Madeline Borshuul
Our corp is actually asking itself "Why are we mining AT ALL ?"

We cannot seem to tax the minerals from members, so ... what is the point ?

We can't make money for the corp (We want to set up a POS) this way.

I agree with bugsy above - if we cannot tax mining, how do we grow to live in low-sec or 0.0 ?
Snuse
Sofakroken Mineralutvinning AS
#15 - 2013-06-17 19:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Snuse
But.. but.. but.. there must clearly be a reason for it being the way it is?

I can not simply grasp why they would not raise the rewards from venturing into lowsec and 0.0 significantly, and how it would not contribute to the game in a positive way for everyone? Miners would have an alternative to the safety of highsec and pvp'ers would have more juicy targets to choose from and we could have a game going here.

I refuse to believe that it is the way it is because of bad design, so someone please explain this logic to me.
Madeline Borshuul
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-06-17 19:19:04 UTC
Perhaps they don't like miners ;)

We are discussing at the moment to just stop mining, not much point without being able to make a tax.
Mari Hata
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-06-17 19:37:47 UTC
Snuse wrote:
But.. but.. but.. (..) I refuse to believe (...)


You'll have to, eventually. There's room for improvement at every corner.
Should you doubt it, next time you enter your captain's quarters in a station, try opening the door to your left.

♫ ♪ ♪

Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-06-17 20:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
Madeline Borshuul wrote:
Perhaps they don't like miners ;)

We are discussing at the moment to just stop mining, not much point without being able to make a tax.


Came to the exact same conclusion. It's even worse in low-sec/0.0.

Only station owners can tax mining. it's absurd.

The real problem with eve online is that 50% of the gameplay is made for 2% of the community to take part in whether it be R64 Moon mining, station owning, space ownership, Lab Rental (done in stations also), etc etc.

And the only changes ever seem to be trying to balance those particular things - apart from PVP ships.

A decent refinery should be something any pos can run for the very few miners that are left in the game mining from a POS and tax done at that refinery at the time of refining. It's simple but will never happen.

Or even better a silo that buys the ore at corp level from miners who dump their ore in there and taxes that appropriately.

10 years on and this simple thing is still missing and people complain that "carebears won't leave empire".
CCP/CSM remain silent on these kinds of issues.

.

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#19 - 2013-06-17 22:17:17 UTC
Ive seen more and more comments related to taxing mining in low and null. This leads me to believe that the various entities in low and null are interested in mining occurring there, but are still feeling blocked by game mechanics. Those being:

Poor refining efficiency.
No automatic way for a corp or alliance to profit from it.

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Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
#20 - 2013-06-18 02:33:38 UTC
Madeline Borshuul wrote:
Our corp is actually asking itself "Why are we mining AT ALL ?"

We cannot seem to tax the minerals from members, so ... what is the point ?

We can't make money for the corp (We want to set up a POS) this way.

I agree with bugsy above - if we cannot tax mining, how do we grow to live in low-sec or 0.0 ?



Could it be because you are in an NPC corp ????
I've done some really stupid shit in this game.
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