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Can I take my friend in a BC with me to lvl4s?
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Tiya A'raund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-06-17 09:02:36 UTC
I know you can even solo lvl4s in a BC, but I was hoping that he could come in a bit more gank setup than normal BC lvl4 fit, I know that only elite frigs/cruisers swap aggro to drones and was hoping that by that logic BS wouldn't ever swap to my friends BC?

If he has to come in a full tank setup he wont really be killing anything there so its a bit meh... I have a CNR and I can easily do all the dps needed, but it would be nice if he could kill the cruisers at least that are hardest to kill for me.

-Thank you for answers.
Nicolai Xperte
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-06-17 09:06:06 UTC
Don't see why not just make sure your friend's BC is tanked properly but not over tanked.

I don't always bring out my Absolution.

But when I do it makes the Blue's rage, lol.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#3 - 2013-06-17 09:08:10 UTC
Shoot scrambler frigs first, if the **** hits the fan he can always warp out.

Something like a Autocannon Hurrice with buffer Shieldtank should kill those frigs very fast.
Or a Tornado. Stay at 50km+ and shoot with barrage until aggro swiches, then get close.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Tiya A'raund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-06-17 09:32:46 UTC
Nicolai Xperte wrote:
Don't see why not just make sure your friend's BC is tanked properly but not over tanked.


I doubt you get "proper" lvl4 tank with under 1mil skill points without putting everything into tanking.

I EFT warriored a bit with his API and he could fit a Hurricane with 236tank vs sansha and 192dps+28 from drones (with 650arty) but the range is really gimpy (11+20km), and shooting further gimps the damage to 80+28 (36+20km).

That doesn't seem like good stats to me :P
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#5 - 2013-06-17 10:04:46 UTC
Let him wait for a few minutes (depending on the mission) in front of the room while you reduce the worst DPS. Did that once and it worked well. Just use common sense (both of you Smile).

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

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Aplier Shivra
#6 - 2013-06-17 10:09:32 UTC
If you're already capable of soloing the missions in the ship you're bringing, my suggestion would be to have your BC friend fit for tracking (or with a web) and use short range weapons, to focus on killing off the frigs/cruisers. Without a range bonused hull, even the long range medium weapons are gonna have pretty poor range for level 4's, and the dps would be okay but not all too significant compared to yours. I did this for a while and I had a pretty fun time of it, sometimes it was pretty boring waiting to get in range, but I still felt like I was helping do something that my bigger battleship friend would have had trouble with.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#7 - 2013-06-17 10:15:05 UTC
236 tank sounds more then enough. Like i said, if you can't tank it, warp him out. Don't your **** have a utility highslot? Put a large remote rep thingy on it.

Just let him deal with the frigates.

I'm guessing he uses armor tank?

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-06-17 10:16:49 UTC
Shield maintenance bots... we use those bots while flying missions in fleets, and it works fine. Just let him fit a decent tank and rep his butt with those. Should work fine if he got a decently fast ship. After all, no aggro should last long on him anyway, as a CNR just melts NPC's..)
Tiya A'raund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-06-17 10:20:46 UTC
Its a passive shield tank fit, 2x gyro, 3x spr, 1x pds lows, 2x lse, 2x resists mid, 3x purgers. He doesn't have armor skillz.

I suppose AC fit would be okay, range just is so horrible that I'm afraid I'll just kill everything before they get into range and he will feel useless :D (new CNR is kinda mad). CNR doesn't have a utility high anymore though :(

Ah shield maintenance bots seems like a great idea!
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-06-17 10:30:48 UTC
just put him in a drake.

Art of Explosions
Tiya A'raund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-06-17 10:42:47 UTC
Heavy shield bots should bring the tank up to 350, that's way overkill already!

Dps comes up to 272+28 too with AC, only 12km range though.

Now I'll just have to convince him that he wont insta die in there ;)

-Thank you for all the ideas. :)
Aplier Shivra
#12 - 2013-06-17 11:24:24 UTC
Tiya A'raund wrote:
Heavy shield bots should bring the tank up to 350, that's way overkill already!

Dps comes up to 272+28 too with AC, only 12km range though.

Now I'll just have to convince him that he wont insta die in there ;)

-Thank you for all the ideas. :)


Don't forget to mention the way signature radius/tracking works, especially with regards to his BC vs. enemy BS's. With an afterburner on a BC, it will usually have around 1/3 the sig/speed ratio that the enemy's biggest guns are designed for. Oh, and force him to use a damage control, if for some reason he doesn't already want to.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#13 - 2013-06-17 11:26:51 UTC
Don't sansha do alot of EM damage? Why use 2x Shield ships against shanshas?

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Tiya A'raund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-06-17 11:35:15 UTC
Aplier Shivra wrote:

Don't forget to mention the way signature radius/tracking works, especially with regards to his BC vs. enemy BS's. With an afterburner on a BC, it will usually have around 1/3 the sig/speed ratio that the enemy's biggest guns are designed for. Oh, and force him to use a damage control, if for some reason he doesn't already want to.


I tried with AB+DCU and actual tank dropped from 272 to 141, I suppose the AB would help to get into range too though, and DCU helps if something goes wrong, but almost half of the defense is somewhat scary...


l0rd carlos wrote:

Don't sansha do alot of EM damage? Why use 2x Shield ships against shanshas?


Yes sansha does a lot of em/therm, but I'm not gonna pick my ship based on what is easiest to tank with, you can always get enough tank to do lvl4's anyways no matter the ship, its just a matter of how to maximize dps and still get the bare minimum of tanking to fit. ;)

I would bet that he is not going to change to armor tanking either, especially since maelstrom is better as shield tanker too afaik.

The reason why we are in Amarr space is that our friends live there and its not so fun to do stuff alone. ;)
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-06-17 11:37:37 UTC
I dual box, they WILL swap targets. I think my alt has a tank of about 126ish.

Of course, with the firepower of two of you, who *actually* cares again?
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-06-17 11:42:11 UTC
Tiya A'raund wrote:
Heavy shield bots should bring the tank up to 350, that's way overkill already!

Dps comes up to 272+28 too with AC, only 12km range though.

Now I'll just have to convince him that he wont insta die in there ;)

-Thank you for all the ideas. :)


Curious: which bots have you used? You can field a swarm of meds, and a swarm of hobos, provided you don't need Hammers (which I doubt in a CNR ;)), although I don't have any experience with using them with the "new" NPC AI..
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-06-17 11:54:11 UTC
Tiya A'raund wrote:
I EFT warriored a bit with his API and he could fit a Hurricane with 236tank vs sansha and 192dps+28 from drones (with 650arty) but the range is really gimpy (11+20km), and shooting further gimps the damage to 80+28 (36+20km).


Sounds to me like he can't out range, tank or dps the npc battleships, he is probably going to spend a lot of time warping in and out to avoid losing the ship.

Maybe you should consider running level 3 missions with dual bc or cruiser/bc, it's likely to be more fun even if it's less isk.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Tiya A'raund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-06-17 11:55:52 UTC
Gimme more Cynos wrote:

Curious: which bots have you used? You can field a swarm of meds, and a swarm of hobos, provided you don't need Hammers (which I doubt in a CNR ;)), although I don't have any experience with using them with the "new" NPC AI..

I used heavy ones, they have 250orbit velocity and I thought that should be enough if he doesn't have an AB, three heavies rep more than five mediums if I understood correctly, I haven't actually never had any use for them before so I'll have to try how they work :p

And yes I only use hobs/warriors with CNR, I feel its annoying enough that elite frigs swap to hobs, using hammers with their gimpy speed seems just masochist because they aggro stuff so fast, even despite of a TP so I don't even bother.
Sometimes if I'm realllly tired of the new AI and don't want to want to bother with watching them I'll just load precision and kill the frigs myself, you can then use that "clip" to kill bc/cruisers just as fast as rage and swap back to rage at 1-3ammo so you wont really lose much on loading time either.

I've been supposed to train sentries some day to have a bit more use for the dronebay, but somehow I always have something more important to train. :p
Tiya A'raund
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-06-17 11:57:35 UTC
dexington wrote:
Tiya A'raund wrote:
I EFT warriored a bit with his API and he could fit a Hurricane with 236tank vs sansha and 192dps+28 from drones (with 650arty) but the range is really gimpy (11+20km), and shooting further gimps the damage to 80+28 (36+20km).


Sounds to me like he can't out range, tank or dps the npc battleships, he is probably going to spend a lot of time warping in and out to avoid losing the ship.

Maybe you should consider running level 3 missions with dual bc or cruiser/bc, it's likely to be more fun even if it's less isk.


Actually I have around 200-250 sustained tank on my CNR too and I rarely have to use second booster for some burst tanking, I doubt it will be a problem on most missions since he wont even be tanking all the time, and I know the missions pretty well so I know the ones where the DPS is heavy and we need to be more careful.
Aplier Shivra
#20 - 2013-06-17 12:37:44 UTC
Tiya A'raund wrote:
Aplier Shivra wrote:

Don't forget to mention the way signature radius/tracking works, especially with regards to his BC vs. enemy BS's. With an afterburner on a BC, it will usually have around 1/3 the sig/speed ratio that the enemy's biggest guns are designed for. Oh, and force him to use a damage control, if for some reason he doesn't already want to.


I tried with AB+DCU and actual tank dropped from 272 to 141, I suppose the AB would help to get into range too though, and DCU helps if something goes wrong, but almost half of the defense is somewhat scary...


I would have actually suggested dropping some of the dps mods for one or both of those, as 150 dps would still be enough to take out frigs and cruisers, and a dead ship (or one that has to keep warping in and out all the time) does no dps. But still, make sure to remind him that as long as he's constantly moving, he'll be tankier than his numbers suggest.

And I know that you are kinda eager to get him into level 4's with you and for him to feel active and have fun in them, but if he just doesn't have the skill points to really help in dps and keep himself alive then it's not going to be as much fun as just rushing through level 3's together.
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