Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Your not going to get something with carrier like Base of Ops capabilities, and any kind of combat ability as well in highsec. Its just not going to happen, when you can so easily just dock up. Mobile bases are for high risk operations, and used that way solo they are always VERY vulnerable for the space they live in(supercaps not being counted, thats why they are getting nerfed). Something with the power of a carrier, or even a BS with carrier base of ops capabilities, is simply to powerful in highsec. It would win any fight where the enemy didn't field one as well, and thats why we hate supercaps.

because 4 fighters don't GIVE 400 dps, they give ALOT more than that. You fail to calculate in bonuses due to the required skills.

I believe a 12 fighters fighter V carrier V thanatos is 1400 dps.
Remove 25% from the Thanny bonus, this makes 1100 dps approx for 12 fighters
EDIT: Just to make things clear, you remove the 25% buff, going 125->100, so it's -20%

So yeah, a fighter is 100 dps...

3rd Edit: Also don't forget it's paper dps. You can easily substract another 25% to that for applied dps... even on battleship targets. Serious. Fighter tracking's so crap i heard lots of carrier pilots telling me that painting those enormous Sov Warfare structures was doubling their dps.


Secondary EDIT: About above post, that's exactly what i mean!
Titans are cheated because of bridge/doomsday
Motherships are cheated because of stupidly insane dps
Carriers are cheated because of ridiculous remote and self tank + triage
Therefore i fail to see how another ship with just fighters would be op?

Because there's nothing between the Orca and the carriers? Simply?
What would you say if there were frigates, destroyers, and battleships? no cruiser/bc ? you get my point.



The Rorqual is capital sized, and can mount capital modules
The Orca is expensive like 3 Tier 3 BS, and fits like a cruiser.
The Orca is BS sized, and can mount cruiser modules
The Orca is BS sized, and tanks barely more than a hulk
The Orca is BS sized, and tanks LESS than a badger mk2. I take it Badgers are combat ships?
Your argument is invalid, and.... oh, um.

No, the Orca costs half as much a freighter — the other highsec capital ship — which is not surprising since it's made out of the same capship building blocks. And it fits battleship modules.
No, the Orca is larger than a battleship, and can mount battleship modules (most notably prop mods).
No, the Orca is larger than a battleship, and can be trivially made to have 300k EHP.
No, the Orca is larger than a battleship, and can be trivially made to have 300k EHP.

I think you've confused the Orca with some other ship.

That's because you don't DPS-tank the Orca — you buffer it. At no point should it be in a situation where it needs to DPS tank.

TBH I'd rather rely on "active" tank than buffer tank, and you could turn it the other way around aswell: if you have to rely on your structure tanking, it means something has gone terribly wrong!
Whatever, all i said about the orca was fail yeah (sorry about that), although i'm still thinking it might be short on slots, you kind of proved it to be mostly balanced.

Anyway - this had nothing to do with the orca in the beginning - as you guys all outlined, the orca is not a combat vessel.
Now, this means, since there is truely nothing between an Orca and a Carrier, that there's no real combat/exploration/whatever vessel below capital size.
A lot of people have been complaining about how "Motherships" were to fill the niche of "Mobile POS" and didnt, presenting almost no use for exporation in the end. If i recall correctly, there was even an huge thread on the old forums about making a SOE Carrier, dedicated to exploration.

Now, on the same line of thought, why isnt there anything like a subcapital carrier?
I guess that's mostly subjective, but as I see it today, carriers and supers nowadays are more like pwnmobile than anything else (save for RR'ing carrs ofc)
Of course that's just an idea, but i don't think it'd imbalance the game too much, and would provide some interesting possibilities like high-sec fighter support (yes... i know, that's mostly stupid)
See my other arguments in above posts (although there's not much yeah...), above the orca talk.

TL;DR: seriously, what's wrong with this idea of T3 Mini-carrier BS? i'm talking about improving tactical possibilities of the game here, not turning Battleships into a real pwnmobile... which is what will happen if they apply today T3 concepts to Battleships. no way man.

While there is no Maintbay / jumpdrive found in traditional carriers, have you taken a look at the Machariel?

First off, Firartix, if the Orca is meant to be tanking something longer than CONCORD response time, the pilot was A. An idiot (as in the majority of the cases) or B. the pilot was screwed anyways. The point of an Orca (as has been stated) is not to tank, or really anything combat-related at all, the point is to provide mining bonuses to a fleet of carebears and possibly haul their **** so they don't cry when someone comes up and takes their ore from the jetcans. This should be clear to anyone who has ever opened the information window on an Orca and read the words that are written in it.

Second, in general, there really is no need for moar ships right now. The last ship that they added (the Noctis) wasn't just "because"; it filled a niche that was previously filled by refitted Destroyers and Battlecruisers, that of salvaging the **** out of everything in sight. Until you can legitimately give me a niche that a new ship would fill that isn't already filled by another one, no suggestion for a new ship will be taken seriously.


For example, to the OP: Let's say you really really want your damn carrier-style ships in high-sec. Alright, cool.

So why do you want it? Is it for the mobile base of operations? That's called a POS. or a Station if you want to be unclever and not quite mobile about it. Is it for the ship maintenance bay so you can haul your ships with you? Get a neutral orca alt, it's got 400k m3, good enough for a few battlecruisers or something. Is it for the fighters? Those are banned from highsec for a reason. Is it because you want an awesome drone boat? We have the Dominix (admittedly not that awesome, thing looks horribad), Vexor, Ishtar, Gila, Ishkur, and Myrmidon, among others.

Do you want the ridiculous remote rep capability? We have logi ships. Do you want overwhelming DPS? That's pretty much every other combat ship out there.

This is the reason why I personally am holding off on the enthusiasm for more T3 ships (frigates, whatever); there's really no need for them unless CCP's goal is to flood everyone with an overwhelmingly large number of choices of ships that all do the same damn thing.

EDIT:

Let's see. Command link bonuses, for one. I'm pretty sure it's not limited to only mining links (it says reduction to all gang links), but only mining links are bonused. Doesn't stop you from putting a Skirmish warfare on it if you really want to, does it?

Mobile BoO: It's got a ship maint bay and you can fit your ship in space with it. There are many accounts of wormhole dwellers forgoing a POS and living entirely out of an alt with a scan-fitted Orca that has scan ships, sleeper killing ships, and modules in its bay.

I would assume that a member of an "Industrial Mining" corporation would know what an Orca does and why it's a decent (if Industry-oriented) "Command ship"

Going to jump on the 'new ship' thread, and ignore the carrier debate by posting some ship ideas I've been tossing around in my head, which I wouldn't mind seeing:

Dedicated profession ships. ie: ships which grant bonuses to Archeology or Hacking. Limited use? Sure. But it still might be kind of fun (and a hacking ship might be useful during Incursions, or other hacking-related content). Perhaps these are frigates or cruisers of some kind. The bonuses could increase the range and/or the chance of a module successfully working.

Maybe a Sisters of Eve faction ship? Something like the Noctis: grants 5% cycle time of analyzer and codebreaker modules per level, and 100% increase in the range of analyzer/codebreaker modules per level. (Maybe like a pirate faction, it splits Gallente/Minmatar cruiser levels).