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[proposal] ban the use of ISboxer

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Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-05-22 19:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
DSpite Culhach wrote:
When you have a player doing this sort of thing with 80 accounts, does it not mess with the market mechanics of PLEX sales? after all, that player isn't playing by paying with real cash, he must be PLEX'ing those accounts, so he's taking out 80 PLEX'es of of the market each month that normally would be paid for by normal players.

Does'nt this system raise PLEX prices on the market? Or does CCP just keep it balanced with other tricks?


The one player (there might be 2 or 3 now!) in this game with almost a hundred ice mining accounts doesn't really have an appreciable effect on the price of anything. I don't think you realize the scale of the PLEX market.

And even if he was, the Odyssey update is going to ruin that setup. The only choice he'll have is to move to 0.0 and mine ore along with ice.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-05-27 20:21:18 UTC
Evei Shard wrote:
If CCP were to ban isboxer, I wonder how many hours would pass before the same people posting in this thread would be posting in a new thread asking CCP to ban multi-boxing, or to make it impossible to have more than one client open at a time.
Not many, I'd wager.


It would not take long at all but I am also pretty sure it would make some people stop some of their account. I can't really see people using 20+ account at the same time without any software/tool to help out. 40 clicks to have all 20 ships fire thier gun if the target was already locked.

MADNESS!
Sabotaged
Veritas Vincit
#63 - 2013-05-28 11:00:04 UTC
CCP isn't going to ban isboxer, not then, not now, not ever. With that being said.

"I’ve built an army of industry alts I currently have 21 industry alts with 190 manufacturing slots and 197 science slots at my disposal, I’ve now grown to the point where I’m capable of provided 300+ T2 ships per week to the market sold primarily in Jita."

He doesn't even use isboxer.
Ellen Thrace
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-06-08 12:49:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellen Thrace
So, to clarify my point of view:
MULTICLIENT - its allowed by CCP and its fine by me.
MULTIBOX Software - I dont like it but its allowed by CCP.

"translate/repeat keyboard/mouse commands to multiple clients" - this is absolutely shameful !
I dont care what other games or CCP think about it,


I WILL NEVER EMBRACE IT ! ! !

“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
Tilly Delnero
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-06-10 00:19:37 UTC
Ellen Thrace wrote:
I dont care what other games or CCP think about it,


I WILL NEVER EMBRACE IT ! ! !

You don't have to, just stop trying to slander others as RMTers and bots when those are completely different things. As others have mentioned, ISBoxer is just a tool for managing multiple clients. It doesn't automate in any way. I've never used it but I have friends that do and I honestly can't see any issue with it.

If people are willing to pay for and manage 10-20 accounts, then more power to them - I only have 4 accounts and find that challenging enough to juggle with different skillqueues, goals and in-game activities. I use EVEMon and OpenOffice to assist me in keeping tabs on my characters, should those be banned too?

I really wanted to reply to the original post, but after reading the whole thread I ended up agreeing with all the Goon replies. I hoped this day would never come, now I think therapy is in order. Ugh
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#66 - 2013-06-11 19:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Ezwal wrings out the sponge, empties the bucket and throws the now empty bottle of detergent away...


Right, first of, the OP has the right to post an idea to discuss and has the right to expect a civil and healthy discussion as a result. You don't have to agree, but post your arguments and responses to others in a civil manner please. This goes both ways by the way.

I would also like to point out two recent official responses on the use of ISboxer, one by CCP Eterne and one by GM Lelouch. Just to clarify any misunderstanding on the stance of CCP in this matter.

Thread cleaned and reopened.


2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

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Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

13. Pyramid quoting is prohibited.

Pyramid quoting is a response to a forum thread that contains the quotes of four or more previous posters, sometimes with additional spaces added unnecessarily. This kind of posting often distorts the layout of the forums and can cause issues with readability for some users.

22. Post constructively.

Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.

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Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-06-16 23:47:53 UTC
I agree. Ban ISBoxer. It is an artificial effect on gameplay which brings no benefit to the playerbase at large and discourages cooperation and interaction between players.

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Hexor V
Galactic Terran Command
#68 - 2013-06-17 03:33:49 UTC
pmchem wrote:
I agree. Ban ISBoxer. It is an artificial effect on gameplay which brings no benefit to the playerbase at large and discourages cooperation and interaction between players.


Would you like to provide support for your argument or just spout your opinion?

"Artificial effect on gameplay" False, the game is being played.
"No benefit to the playerbase" False, multiboxers contribute to the game and in-game economy equally to that of non isoboxer/multiboxers.
"Discourages interaction between players/cooperation" False, isboxer allows multi-account owners to use their accounts plain and simple. If a player chooses to play by themselves or with people it would be the same using isoboxer or not.
DSpite Culhach
#69 - 2013-06-17 06:32:27 UTC
Because of this thread, I went and got ISBoxer to play with it ... or rented it, for a better, word cause its subscription based.

Seriously. If you can set up the sucker to manage 10 accounts, the level of work involved is STILL a lot.

I have seen on youtube players running 6+ battleships to do missions, but it still means they are paying 6x as much PLEX, and yes, I can understand making isk faster, but SIX times faster? If you can do that amount of work, pretty sure you deserve the results.

Right now, one dedicated exploration toon running null sites should make more isk/hour then someone ISBoxing anoms, at least when you have to PLEX all the accounts to keep em running.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Paladin Amarr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2013-06-21 19:17:02 UTC
Toluijin Chagangan wrote:
Ok.. though this has likely been said before.

Macro mining and the use of 'multiboxing' tools are two very separate things.
One is a pure automation tool. the other allows one player to control multiple accounts.

The difference is that one allows a person to log in, turn their miner on, then go out / to sleep / watch a movie etc, while the other requires that the person still put in the commands manually, though they can do so on multiple accounts simultaneously.

botting and macro mining is banned because it is an automation tool.
Multiboxing is not.
it's a very fine line between the two, granted, but it is a distinction that has to be made.


Yes its an macro program : Macro definition : A single, user-defined command that is part of an application and executes a series of commands. In this case the command is replicated in all clients.

Yes its botting : Bot definition : A software program that imitates the behavior of a human. This software imitate the action in one client in the other clients.

I never hear anything from CCP saying its allowed thought. If anyone has any link I would like to read.

Again, about the politics rules :

1- You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.

> Since multiboxing is an third party software that changes the way the game is played, its against this rule.

2- You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

> Well, since it facilitate acquisition of anything etc, its against this rule.

3- You may not use the Software, or any information accessible through the System, to bypass the System login architecture or create or provide any other means through which the System may be accessed and/or the Game may be played by others, as, for example, through server emulators.

> It provide diferent way of playing, so its agains this rule.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2013-06-21 20:02:15 UTC
Tilly Delnero wrote:
Ellen Thrace wrote:
I dont care what other games or CCP think about it,


I WILL NEVER EMBRACE IT ! ! !

You don't have to, just stop trying to slander others as RMTers and bots when those are completely different things. As others have mentioned, ISBoxer is just a tool for managing multiple clients. It doesn't automate in any way. I've never used it but I have friends that do and I honestly can't see any issue with it.

If people are willing to pay for and manage 10-20 accounts, then more power to them - I only have 4 accounts and find that challenging enough to juggle with different skillqueues, goals and in-game activities. I use EVEMon and OpenOffice to assist me in keeping tabs on my characters, should those be banned too?

I really wanted to reply to the original post, but after reading the whole thread I ended up agreeing with all the Goon replies. I hoped this day would never come, now I think therapy is in order. Ugh



If your open office and evemon had any effect whatsoever on mining and the ability for 1 person to have a much more controlled influence in a roid belt, then yes. That would be a 3rd party program used to give you an edge over another player.

As it manages your own plans and theories and simply allows more space in your head to use for your own priorities; it has 0 effect on everyone else.

Apart from that, having any 3rd party program have direct influence in Eve is bad. If you aren't using your own mouse to interact with Eve's default gui, it shouldn't be allowed.

Whether it's isboxer, synergy, or anything else.

From what I've learned, modding the client is not allowed.

Isboxer does do that.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Paladin Amarr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2013-06-21 20:44:53 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tilly Delnero wrote:
Ellen Thrace wrote:
I dont care what other games or CCP think about it,


I WILL NEVER EMBRACE IT ! ! !

You don't have to, just stop trying to slander others as RMTers and bots when those are completely different things. As others have mentioned, ISBoxer is just a tool for managing multiple clients. It doesn't automate in any way. I've never used it but I have friends that do and I honestly can't see any issue with it.

If people are willing to pay for and manage 10-20 accounts, then more power to them - I only have 4 accounts and find that challenging enough to juggle with different skillqueues, goals and in-game activities. I use EVEMon and OpenOffice to assist me in keeping tabs on my characters, should those be banned too?

I really wanted to reply to the original post, but after reading the whole thread I ended up agreeing with all the Goon replies. I hoped this day would never come, now I think therapy is in order. Ugh



If your open office and evemon had any effect whatsoever on mining and the ability for 1 person to have a much more controlled influence in a roid belt, then yes. That would be a 3rd party program used to give you an edge over another player.

As it manages your own plans and theories and simply allows more space in your head to use for your own priorities; it has 0 effect on everyone else.

Apart from that, having any 3rd party program have direct influence in Eve is bad. If you aren't using your own mouse to interact with Eve's default gui, it shouldn't be allowed.

Whether it's isboxer, synergy, or anything else.

From what I've learned, modding the client is not allowed.

Isboxer does do that.


EVEMon use eveapi to get data, and its allowed since eveapi was made for this propoused.
To use excel or any other softwares to do calculations aside the game, or to read information in foruns or websites to improve your gameplay is normal and I never hear anything against this in any game.
But as you well said, the use of any 3rd party program that interacts directly with the eve client should result in ban.

I would like to comment about this alts that sends msgs aproving this softwares, they send msg one after another, funy how they stops for a bit now. Looks like its only one person that use lots of alts to spend comments in here, making peaple thing that its an opinion from a lot of diferent players. This should result in ban as well. Peaple should be allowed to post here in only one char.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#73 - 2013-06-21 20:57:54 UTC
"Vegita, what is their butt-hurt and idiot level?"

"It's over 9000!"

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2013-06-21 21:33:24 UTC
Paladin Amarr wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tilly Delnero wrote:
Ellen Thrace wrote:
I dont care what other games or CCP think about it,


I WILL NEVER EMBRACE IT ! ! !

You don't have to, just stop trying to slander others as RMTers and bots when those are completely different things. As others have mentioned, ISBoxer is just a tool for managing multiple clients. It doesn't automate in any way. I've never used it but I have friends that do and I honestly can't see any issue with it.

If people are willing to pay for and manage 10-20 accounts, then more power to them - I only have 4 accounts and find that challenging enough to juggle with different skillqueues, goals and in-game activities. I use EVEMon and OpenOffice to assist me in keeping tabs on my characters, should those be banned too?

I really wanted to reply to the original post, but after reading the whole thread I ended up agreeing with all the Goon replies. I hoped this day would never come, now I think therapy is in order. Ugh



If your open office and evemon had any effect whatsoever on mining and the ability for 1 person to have a much more controlled influence in a roid belt, then yes. That would be a 3rd party program used to give you an edge over another player.

As it manages your own plans and theories and simply allows more space in your head to use for your own priorities; it has 0 effect on everyone else.

Apart from that, having any 3rd party program have direct influence in Eve is bad. If you aren't using your own mouse to interact with Eve's default gui, it shouldn't be allowed.

Whether it's isboxer, synergy, or anything else.

From what I've learned, modding the client is not allowed.

Isboxer does do that.


EVEMon use eveapi to get data, and its allowed since eveapi was made for this propoused.
To use excel or any other softwares to do calculations aside the game, or to read information in foruns or websites to improve your gameplay is normal and I never hear anything against this in any game.
But as you well said, the use of any 3rd party program that interacts directly with the eve client should result in ban.

I would like to comment about this alts that sends msgs aproving this softwares, they send msg one after another, funy how they stops for a bit now. Looks like its only one person that use lots of alts to spend comments in here, making peaple thing that its an opinion from a lot of diferent players. This should result in ban as well. Peaple should be allowed to post here in only one char.


Yea, after a few other threads concerning this issue and rereading the eula (everyone likes to post the relevant bits) it dawned on me that comparing remote access websites and programs to access information isn't bannable by itself.

Take for instance that market botter that did get banned using that information... he used the same software, but +1 more. And that additional software got him in trouble.

Soo.... taking experience of what has happened to people, and the written Code of CCP.... don't use programs that interact with the client/interface.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Hexor V
Galactic Terran Command
#75 - 2013-06-21 22:18:36 UTC
Paladin Amarr wrote:
Toluijin Chagangan wrote:
Ok.. though this has likely been said before.

Macro mining and the use of 'multiboxing' tools are two very separate things.
One is a pure automation tool. the other allows one player to control multiple accounts.

The difference is that one allows a person to log in, turn their miner on, then go out / to sleep / watch a movie etc, while the other requires that the person still put in the commands manually, though they can do so on multiple accounts simultaneously.

botting and macro mining is banned because it is an automation tool.
Multiboxing is not.
it's a very fine line between the two, granted, but it is a distinction that has to be made.


Yes its an macro program : Macro definition : A single, user-defined command that is part of an application and executes a series of commands. In this case the command is replicated in all clients.

Yes its botting : Bot definition : A software program that imitates the behavior of a human. This software imitate the action in one client in the other clients.

I never hear anything from CCP saying its allowed thought. If anyone has any link I would like to read.

Again, about the politics rules :

1- You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.

> Since multiboxing is an third party software that changes the way the game is played, its against this rule.

2- You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.

> Well, since it facilitate acquisition of anything etc, its against this rule.

3- You may not use the Software, or any information accessible through the System, to bypass the System login architecture or create or provide any other means through which the System may be accessed and/or the Game may be played by others, as, for example, through server emulators.

> It provide diferent way of playing, so its agains this rule.


“Yes its an macro program : Macro definition : A single, user-defined command that is part of an application and executes a series of commands. In this case the command is replicated in all clients.”

You are wrong. “Definition of MACRO: : a single computer instruction that stands for a sequence of operations”
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/macro

Macro =/= Keystroke and mouse-click broadcasting. They are two entirely different and separate things. This has been argued through the thread non-stop. Please read before posting.

“Yes its botting : Bot definition : A software program that imitates the behavior of a human. This software imitate the action in one client in the other clients.”

You are wrong again. Botting is the use of an automated program to run something without any input from users. Isoboxer and multiboxer software allowed by both CCP and the EULA do not do this in the slightest. In-fact you would know this is you had actually used or attempted to use software like this before trying to ignorantly argue against it.

“I never hear anything from CCP saying its allowed thought. If anyone has any link I would like to read.”

How about you read the god damn thread? There are quotes from CCP all over the place indicated it’s legality.


“You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.
> Since multiboxing is an third party software that changes the way the game is played, its against this rule.”

You’ve made it abundantly clear you cannot read. The line you have quoted indicates you cannot alter game files and contents. You cannot change how the game is played. Using a multiboxing program doesn’t change how the game is played. It is literally the exact same game being played.

“Well, since it facilitate acquisition of anything etc, its against this rule.”
It doesn’t facilitate acquisition of anything. In order to use ISBOXER you must play the game. You are clearly not understanding that the sentence you are quoting means “you cannot have a program do it for you.”

“It provide diferent way of playing, so its agains this rule.”
That is not what you quoted said. What you quoted said “you cannot create an artificial way to log into the servers or create emulated servers”
Hexor V
Galactic Terran Command
#76 - 2013-06-21 22:22:39 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tilly Delnero wrote:
Ellen Thrace wrote:
I dont care what other games or CCP think about it,


I WILL NEVER EMBRACE IT ! ! !

You don't have to, just stop trying to slander others as RMTers and bots when those are completely different things. As others have mentioned, ISBoxer is just a tool for managing multiple clients. It doesn't automate in any way. I've never used it but I have friends that do and I honestly can't see any issue with it.

If people are willing to pay for and manage 10-20 accounts, then more power to them - I only have 4 accounts and find that challenging enough to juggle with different skillqueues, goals and in-game activities. I use EVEMon and OpenOffice to assist me in keeping tabs on my characters, should those be banned too?

I really wanted to reply to the original post, but after reading the whole thread I ended up agreeing with all the Goon replies. I hoped this day would never come, now I think therapy is in order. Ugh



If your open office and evemon had any effect whatsoever on mining and the ability for 1 person to have a much more controlled influence in a roid belt, then yes. That would be a 3rd party program used to give you an edge over another player.

As it manages your own plans and theories and simply allows more space in your head to use for your own priorities; it has 0 effect on everyone else.

Apart from that, having any 3rd party program have direct influence in Eve is bad. If you aren't using your own mouse to interact with Eve's default gui, it shouldn't be allowed.

Whether it's isboxer, synergy, or anything else.

From what I've learned, modding the client is not allowed.

Isboxer does do that.


I hope you meant to say it doesn't do that because isoboxer does NOT modify the client and Isoboxer does Not let you automate anything.
Ellen Thrace
State War Academy
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-06-22 07:45:09 UTC
I find totally shameful a real EVE player defending this "augmented" type of gameplay.

Its really sad Sad

“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
Mag's
Azn Empire
#78 - 2013-06-22 08:18:16 UTC
Ellen Thrace wrote:
I find totally shameful a real EVE player defending this "augmented" type of gameplay.

Its really sad Sad
What's more shameful, is people posting with obviously no idea on the subject they talk about. Then proceed to berate players based on this poor knowledge. That is sad.

Let's be clear here.

  • A Plex cannot exist without being created with RL monies. This means CCP get money for every Plex used.
  • ISBoxer does not automate, it duplicates.
  • You do not gain items at a more accelerated rate with ISBoxer, than you would do under normal game play.
  • If you go AFK at any time whilst doing anything with ISBoxer, you stop doing it in the game at the same time you would without it installed.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ellen Thrace
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-06-22 09:32:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellen Thrace
Mag's wrote:
Ellen Thrace wrote:
I find totally shameful a real EVE player defending this "augmented" type of gameplay.

Its really sad Sad
What's more shameful, is people posting with obviously no idea on the subject they talk about. Then proceed to berate players based on this poor knowledge. That is sad.

Let's be clear here.

  • A Plex cannot exist without being created with RL monies. This means CCP get money for every Plex used.
  • ISBoxer does not automate, it duplicates.
  • You do not gain items at a more accelerated rate with ISBoxer, than you would do under normal game play.
  • If you go AFK at any time whilst doing anything with ISBoxer, you stop doing it in the game at the same time you would without it installed.

    • Yes let's be clear.

    " A Plex cannot exist without being created with RL monies. This means CCP get money for every Plex used."
    From the person that actually paid for it !

    " ISBoxer does not automate, it duplicates. "
    Duplication or replication is still an "augmented" type of gameplay and totally shameful for a real EVE player to defend it !

    " You do not gain items at a more accelerated rate with ISBoxer, than you would do under normal game play. "
    Yes, you do !

    " If you go AFK at any time whilst doing anything with ISBoxer, you stop doing it in the game at the same time you would without it installed. "
    It doesn't matter if you go AFK or not, its still gives you an unfair advantage against the players that don't use it !

    But you are right, what's more shameful, is people posting with obviously no idea on the subject they talk about.

    “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
    Mag's
    Azn Empire
    #80 - 2013-06-22 15:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
    Ellen Thrace wrote:
    Yes let's be clear.

    " A Plex cannot exist without being created with RL monies. This means CCP get money for every Plex used."
    From the person that actually paid for it !

    " ISBoxer does not automate, it duplicates. "
    Duplication or replication is still an "augmented" type of gameplay and totally shameful for a real EVE player to defend it !

    " You do not gain items at a more accelerated rate with ISBoxer, than you would do under normal game play. "
    Yes, you do !

    " If you go AFK at any time whilst doing anything with ISBoxer, you stop doing it in the game at the same time you would without it installed. "
    It doesn't matter if you go AFK or not, its still gives you an unfair advantage against the players that don't use it !

    But you are right, what's more shameful, is people posting with obviously no idea on the subject they talk about.


    What relevance does it have, regarding who paid for the Plex? The whole point of the Plex system, is so it's trade-able with in-game currency. The whole point is CCP gets paid. They may have traded ISK for it, but that still didn't come for free.
    I'm have a feeling you think the minerals you mine yourself, are also free. Here's a clue, they are not.

    It's duplication, which is already a part of the Eve UI. Why shouldn't I defend it?

    Please show me proof, that you gain items at a more accelerated rate than normal game play. I'm sure CCP would also like to see this.

    Of course it's relevant regarding going AFK. You claim this is automation. If indeed it was, then it would continue to work after. It's not automation, hence why it stops. They have to be at the PC, in order for it to work. That's the only way they gain items and that's why it's fair in my book and CCP's. Blink

    I am right, it is shameful some not having a clue. They like to include emotions and feelings, as well as talk of RMT and bots. It's all rather sad.

    Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.