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Is Incarna worth pursuing, and what does it need to succeed?

Author
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#21 - 2013-06-16 21:23:05 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
IF they are still interested in giving it another try the only way I would fully support the idea is if it was crowd funded.

As in a Kickstarter to hire a fully dedicated team to work on it without reducing development of Flying in Space by even a single minute. (Kickstarter used as an example as they may not be able to use it being an Icelandic HQ)

And if crowdfunded they MUST not allow it to be funded Via PLEX. Players in EVE should not have to deal with higher PLEX prices so that Spacerich people can fund station walking. If people truly believe in WiS let them pay for it with their own funds in my opinion.


I would donate to this. And honestly, I see no real good reason why players shouldn't be able to donate using plex as well.

But haven't they explained more than once that Incarna did have a fully dedicated team, and that no development resources were wasted on it?

As the op posted, much of the backlash from Incarna was from the mostly unrelated NEX store and the abundant player ignorance about game development.

Focusing on FiS is a great directive, and honestly, has net a lot of great advancements to those who actually have paid attention. But i hope CCP has realized that a lot of the players who cried during Incarna the loudest, have continued to cry during every change and addition since. It's not the issue they fight for, but the fight and attention.

Don't change a dime out of flying in space. But it's time walking in stations got improved.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

Endeavour Starfleet
#22 - 2013-06-16 21:39:38 UTC
Players using PLEX to fund it WILL raise PLEX price. Simple supply and demand. So why should those who are not very interested in walkiing in stations have to deal with higher PLEX price so that some spacerich player can show off his NEX store items on a station?

No let it be classic crowdfunding with real funds. If enough can be raised for the team to work on the feature without a dime or minute removed from normal EVE development.
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#23 - 2013-06-16 21:41:42 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Xavier Liche wrote:
lol, the backlash, you want to know what really went wrong? A lot of vain kiddies could not afford a monocle....


Yeah, I'm sure CCP wanting to sell ammo & ships for real money with OP advantages had nothing to do with it.


There was none of that, but there was a lot of bs drama queens, like this.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#24 - 2013-06-16 21:42:29 UTC
Incarna is worth pushing down the toilet.

The Tears Must Flow

Black Dranzer
#25 - 2013-06-16 21:43:31 UTC
Xavier Liche wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Xavier Liche wrote:
lol, the backlash, you want to know what really went wrong? A lot of vain kiddies could not afford a monocle....


Yeah, I'm sure CCP wanting to sell ammo & ships for real money with OP advantages had nothing to do with it.


There was none of that, but there was a lot of bs drama queens, like this.

Incarna was "testing the waters". You don't test the waters unless you plan on going swimming.

Luckily, the waters were full of pissed of sharks with monument-destroying lasers strapped to their heads.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#26 - 2013-06-16 22:40:13 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
Xavier Liche wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Xavier Liche wrote:
lol, the backlash, you want to know what really went wrong? A lot of vain kiddies could not afford a monocle....


Yeah, I'm sure CCP wanting to sell ammo & ships for real money with OP advantages had nothing to do with it.


There was none of that, but there was a lot of bs drama queens, like this.

Incarna was "testing the waters". You don't test the waters unless you plan on going swimming.

Luckily, the waters were full of pissed of sharks with monument-destroying lasers strapped to their heads.



The problem is: Incarna was WiS /and/ the NeX.

WiS could quite happily exist without any microtransactions.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Black Dranzer
#27 - 2013-06-16 22:48:00 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The problem is: Incarna was WiS /and/ the NeX.

WiS could quite happily exist without any microtransactions.

Just a tip: The forum supports italic tags. i and /i in square brackets. Same for bold and underline.

The NeX really didn't help things, I'll give you that, but I still think Incarna had plenty of god-awful design decisions even without the NeX.
Marcus Harikari
#28 - 2013-06-16 23:01:12 UTC
I am all for WiS! If we had wis, i could get my dad to try out this game! we need to stop working on fis for a minute and make some bars, lounges, corp offices, views of outside station, markets, etc....like second life but without the zebra penises!
Ace Boogi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-06-16 23:07:18 UTC
seriously, it was one of the main reasons i subbed

now that it's pretty much dead and the rest of the game seems to following suit, i may just let my multiple accounts expire. this game is pretty... iffy.... the spaceships themselves are marginally fun but not too much... manual piloting is a joke, the ease at which you enter tidi and the lagfest that ensues is a joke, and i don't see any of that being fixed anytime soon
Adunh Slavy
#30 - 2013-06-16 23:12:16 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:

Truth


They (CCP) still seem to be looking for some justification for leaving ships. They are going to make similar errors again.

Here's an idea CCP, just make a big empty room, and if for performance reasons only 64 people can go in at a time, so be it. There doesn't need to be anything in that room but its own chat channel.
Just start making it work at the basic level and go from there.

Stop shooting at the moon. Stop trying to run in stations when you've not even yet learned to (let us) walk in them.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#31 - 2013-06-16 23:26:38 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Stop shooting at the moon. Stop trying to run in stations when you've not even yet learned to (let us) walk in them.
Nah. They should shoot for the moon. They should also realise that the moon is a grey and desolate place, but that we can bring the christmas lights and flashy colours later…

…as long as we have something to occupy us with so we don't get bored while waiting for all that surface coating. P
Kazur Nemic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-06-16 23:41:33 UTC
Ace Boogi wrote:
seriously, it was one of the main reasons i subbed

now that it's pretty much dead and the rest of the game seems to following suit, i may just let my multiple accounts expire. this game is pretty... iffy.... the spaceships themselves are marginally fun but not too much... manual piloting is a joke, the ease at which you enter tidi and the lagfest that ensues is a joke, and i don't see any of that being fixed anytime soon


Oh look someone else like me confirming my beliefs that finishing WiS would give Eve more players, I only stayed this time becuase of captians quarters and the immersion it gives. I can relate to a human character, not a piece of flying space metal.

Also thought I would mention I plan to pvp in low sec and 0.0 space on another character of mine, and not just carebear in highsec.

I support the idea of making WiS a social hub where players can interact with other players playing built in minigames, gambling, etc. I would link the video to of what CCP had in mind for one of the minigames but those videos got taken down.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#33 - 2013-06-16 23:41:36 UTC
Well, having only one CQ on launch was also crappy.

Just ... something each expansion. A corporate office. Light settings. Multiple racial CQ's. Pirate CQ's. Gathering rooms like you have in Dust. Observation deck. Basic animations like shaking hands or laughing out loud.

Just ... something.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

Lipbite
Express Hauler
#34 - 2013-06-16 23:42:54 UTC
I have $50+ ready for a sci-fi game with EVE-like quality of avatars and any non-boring gameplay such as common areas / halls with more than 1 toon in it, MassEffect-like quick arcade PvE and PvP shooting, pets or NPC companions, various NPC interactions (station services) - and some cosmetic items.

I don't need 100x100 battles, days-long epic quests, PvE grind, raiding and complicated loot progression - not going to treat game like alternative job.
Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
#35 - 2013-06-16 23:48:36 UTC
There needs to be pirate hats and eye patches. Yarr!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#36 - 2013-06-16 23:56:40 UTC
Incarna isn't worth pursuing, because it has so many negative connotations associated with it. And rightly so, it was an aborted mess of an expansion.

If they want to gradually add more bits and pieces for immersion, then fine.

But don't slap it all together real half assed, throw in a cash shop, and call it an expac.

The simple fact is, that it has little if anything to do with the core mechanics of the game. You can get along perfectly well without ever going into the captain's quarters. There are people who hate it because it's useless.

However, it's also extremely unpopular for reasons that don't have to do with it being functionally useless.

So if you add functionality that is unique to WiS onto it, then it becomes mandatory, and the people who hate it because it's stupid won't like it.

There is no good choice here, so leave well enough alone, and don't poke the bear.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#37 - 2013-06-17 00:01:40 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Incarna isn't worth pursuing, because it has so many negative connotations associated with it. And rightly so, it was an aborted mess of an expansion.

If they want to gradually add more bits and pieces for immersion, then fine.

But don't slap it all together real half assed, throw in a cash shop, and call it an expac.

The simple fact is, that it has little if anything to do with the core mechanics of the game. You can get along perfectly well without ever going into the captain's quarters. There are people who hate it because it's useless.

However, it's also extremely unpopular for reasons that don't have to do with it being functionally useless.

So if you add functionality that is unique to WiS onto it, then it becomes mandatory, and the people who hate it because it's stupid won't like it.

There is no good choice here, so leave well enough alone, and don't poke the bear.


On the other end, you can expand immersion and alternate content for the game quite easily, as well as introducing a social mechanism that simply isn't available in the core game. Most of the real work has already been done and is stable.

To many, CCP broke EvE with the Trinity graphics update. Why do things need to be pretty in a game about internet spaceships blowing each other up. They argued against the 'mandatory' update for years, very loudly and very aggressively, stating that EvE was dead and that it was all a waste of time.

I think time told the truth there, and I believe if it's given a chance, time will tell with WiS too.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?

Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#38 - 2013-06-17 00:10:16 UTC
WiS is only worth pursuing if they scale back on the graphics and expand on the content/functionality. Otherwise it is a over polished turd that will fry anyones GFX card if the doors opened.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#39 - 2013-06-17 00:30:47 UTC
I get the impression they're just waiting a year or two for the technology to catch up to their engine.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-06-17 00:47:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Xavier Liche wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Xavier Liche wrote:
lol, the backlash, you want to know what really went wrong? A lot of vain kiddies could not afford a monocle....


Yeah, I'm sure CCP wanting to sell ammo & ships for real money with OP advantages had nothing to do with it.


There was none of that, but there was a lot of bs drama queens, like this.


Obviously, you weren't even there. The biggest backlash came against the direction that CCP was going in for EVE regarding microtransactions. When CCP Helmar himself comes out and admits to, and apologises for, the faults of Incarna, you can't call the players who created the backlash "bs drama queens" anymore. Instead, you call them "right" and get down on your knees and beg their forgiveness for being so obnoxiously wrong.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104