These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Loki Exploration Fit
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Arckeuss
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#1 - 2013-06-15 23:34:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Arckeuss
Hi,

With my main, I rat in a tengu. But the forsaken hub are annoying, so to get some fun from playing this game, I wanted to get a ship which will provide me this by the exploration.
Considering that i'm moving in a friendly 0.0 space, and that I'm just looking of fun with this ship, could this fit work in what it is designed for? (data/relic site in 0.0 and wh space; and for combat site in wh? )
This fit is almost an all in one, only the salvager is missing (because I think that more dps is needed for the anoms in wh).
By the way: I only want to fly this ship for exploration, so don't say "bad idea" or "get a pilgrim" or something else like this.
Just help me to get a viable loki for exploration. :)

Here it is (not yet finished):

Low:
-Gyrostabilizer II
-Gyrostabilizer II
-Gyrostabilizer II
-Tracking Enhancer II

Med:
-Data analyzer
-Relic analyzer
-Pith A-type kinetic deflection field
-Large ancillary shield booster (navy 200)
-Republic fleet 10mn

High:
-425mm II
-425mm II
-425mm II
-425mm II
-425mm II
-Sisters core probe launcher
-Covert ops cloaking device II

Rigs:
-Medium projectile burst aerator II
-Medium anti-explo I
-Medium anti-thermal I

Subs:
-Adaptive Shielding
-Emergent Locus Analyzer
-Augmented Capa Reservoir
-Covert Reconfiguration
-Fuel Catalyst

With the rigs, I was looking for a balance with the shield resistances to tank the omni-damage of the sleepers.
The large anciliary shield boost could be switch for a dead space medium shield boost.

Here are some stats with all skills at V:

81,2% em; 79% therm; 82,8% kin; 73,7 explo
356 dps (with barrage M)
786m/s with a signature of 157m
ehp: 26,422

I need your thought about this fit and what could be improved.
I'm not an expert with the ships which use guns in general, as my main is caldari, so I need some help to know if my alt will be safe in his new ship :D
Remember that i'm just expecting from this ship some fun, not an incredible income :)
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#2 - 2013-06-16 01:11:23 UTC
You could probably run C2 WH anomalies in that at best, even then you'll have to run that ASB quite a fair bit and might run out of cap boosters at a bad time. For data/relic sites from what I hear you pretty much need a bonused ship or it will take ages to do and isn't worth the time.
Arckeuss
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#3 - 2013-06-16 10:34:08 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
For data/relic sites from what I hear you pretty much need a bonused ship or it will take ages to do and isn't worth the time.


The emergent locus give a bonus for the data relic analyze :D
I've edited the main post, because I had forgotten to write the subs. now the problem is solved :)
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#4 - 2013-06-16 10:54:47 UTC
Ah, didn't know that, in that case it's an alright fit, but you should get a regular shield tank on it, as I said, ASBs can get you into trouble in PvE situations. You'll only really be able to run C1 sites and C2 combat sites with it, combat sites in null tend to be high rated and your fit wouldn't be able to handle those.
Arckeuss
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#5 - 2013-06-16 11:21:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Arckeuss
and if the problem of the tank is solved, could this fit allow me to run C3?
I was thinking for a small/medium deadspace shield booster to replace the ancillary
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#6 - 2013-06-16 13:32:21 UTC
Even with a Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster which costs a billion isk, you'll still be hard pressed to run C3 sites, they require around 600+ dps tank and the best I could get was around 400dps tank. Although you can speed tank in the Loki, most of the sites have webs that can cause you serious problems not to mention the very real risk of getting jumped and losing the expensive booster as your dps and range is pretty low meaning it will take you quite long to do the sites, additionally, most of the isk from these sites comes from salvage and without a salvager it isn't really worth it. All in all I wouldn't recommend trying to run C3 anomalies if you still want to keep your Data/Relic Analyzer setup.

Here's the setup I had in mind:
[Loki, Explorer]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir

The shield booster is the most expensive thing on there but it's not too bad at around 200+million, it has 300+ dps tanked which is sufficient for C1 and C2 combat sites, however C2 relic/data sites will give you some problems although it should be possible if you speed tank the Battleships and it may require some warping in and out, honestly I haven't done it in a Loki so you'll have to try it out yourself.

That's about all I can think of for now, shoot if you have any other questions :)
Arckeuss
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#7 - 2013-06-16 14:34:26 UTC
In a first time, I would like to thank you for your help :) this is better to build a fit together than alone.

Ok, I've some questions for you, as I know nothing (or almost) about the exploration and the wormhole.
-are there more relic site or data site in 0.0/wh? (to keep one of them maybe)
-when I warp to a data/relic site, are there several waves of enemies which appear as long as there is something to analyze or there is just a group of enemies when I warp on it with no waves after?

if you answer for the second question the second proposition, maybe we can get this fit:

[Loki, Explorer]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pithi A-Type Kinetic
Pithi A-Type Explo
Cap Recharger II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir

Stable at 45%
with 83,6 em; 82,6 therm; 84,9 kin; 91,3 explo

When the sites are clear, I go back to a station in 0.0 outside of the wh and fit the data/relic analyzer; that's the plan xD
At last, I think the C3 are just in option, if the final fit allows me to run c3's, that's pretty good; if not, this is unimportant :)
(I hope that you understand what I mean, because my english isn't necessarily good :/)
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#8 - 2013-06-16 15:55:29 UTC
Okay, firstly, I highly suggest you gain more experience in Wormholes before you dive in with an expensive Loki like that, since you can't use the cloak while you're running the site you're very vulnerable and people in Wormholes love cloaky hunting and you'll probably lose the Loki.

C3s are basically out of reach for a cloaky scanner Loki unless you spend a significant amount on your tank (even if you drop the Relic + Data analyzer you'd need around 600million worth of modules to get the required tank) making your ship really expensive.

To answer your other questions:
-Yes there are more relic/data sites in null, I haven't explored in the new system so I'm unsure if there are NPCs in null relic/data sites, but from what I hear a Loki should be able to handle them.
-Relic/Data sites in Wormholes on the other hand are completely different in that they always have NPCs which are very tough (tougher than combat sites in the same WH). These NPCs are present when you first warp in and have triggers which spawn other waves, look here for more information: http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=WormholeSpaceClass3

So basically here's what I suggest you do:
-Use your Loki to explore in null sec (scan, do data/relic sites), however you should use an Interdiction Nullifier subsytem if you're going to explore in hostile 0.0.
-Either dock and refit your Loki, or change to another ship to do C2/3-Wormhole Combat/Data/Relic sites or when you find DED Complexes in 0.0.

As for what ship you want to use, if you want something that can handle all those sites a Loki should actually be able to handle them quite well, you'd use something like this:

[Loki, PvE]

Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher /OFFLINE

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding


Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

The probe launcher is offline because theres not enough CPU and it's for when you switch to your combat setup, it's always a good idea to have a probe launcher in WHs always so you don't get stuck and you can offline other mods to use the probe launcher if you get stuck. It has enough tank and dps for everything except C3 Data/Relic sites which are pretty hard to solo anyway. You should also be able to do DED combat plexes that you find in null (though my experience here is limited so I'm not sure what exactly it can handle) but don't forget to use specific hardeners when doing these plexes (i.e. if you're fighting Sanshas you'd want EM/Thermal hardeners)

For scanning and 0.0 relic/data sites you'd use this:

[Loki, PvE copy]

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration

You can easily swap between these 2 setups at a station provided you have the required modules/subsystems. This provides very safe travel in 0.0, has immunity to bubbles, and still has a decent tank to deal with minor NPC spawns, it also has the relic/data analyzer for 0.0 exploration.

From what I read it seems you're quite new to exploration and wormholes so I would suggest you get some experience in cheaper ships before going in with a Loki. Try starting with a covops and learn the ropes of exploration first.

Phew, sorry for the huge wall of text, hope that answered your questions.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-06-16 15:59:49 UTC
A long while back i was looking for a solo c3 fitting and found a loki that would do c3 sites on what turned out to be an isk sellers site.

the fitting was

[Loki, Loki]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Power Diagnostic System II

Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

425mm AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Which can infact do most of the sites in a c3. however it lacks data/relic and salvager modules, while boasting a cap stable 600 dps tank its 382 dps is at such a short range (1.65/21.6) that it takes far too long to get into a decent range for many sites. Using barrage its a much better 3.3/32.4 but it still was meh.

I found that using a legion was much better with the added benefit of much smaller ammo import pain. though the legion can neither scan nor hack, a separate scanner ship will generally be preferred to any "solo" c3 setup.

I am not sure that there are any really complete c3 daytripper fits out there.
Oh also there are two sites each for radar and mag, one of each you will need a 1k dps tank for. I have yet to see a good single ship setup for those sites. (possibly dual asb vargur, but i found autocannons in general to be inferior to lasers in wh)

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#10 - 2013-06-16 22:08:31 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
A long while back i was looking for a solo c3 fitting and found a loki that would do c3 sites on what turned out to be an isk sellers site.

the fitting was

[Loki, Loki]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Power Diagnostic System II

Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

425mm AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Phased Plasma M
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Which can infact do most of the sites in a c3. however it lacks data/relic and salvager modules, while boasting a cap stable 600 dps tank its 382 dps is at such a short range (1.65/21.6) that it takes far too long to get into a decent range for many sites. Using barrage its a much better 3.3/32.4 but it still was meh.

I found that using a legion was much better with the added benefit of much smaller ammo import pain. though the legion can neither scan nor hack, a separate scanner ship will generally be preferred to any "solo" c3 setup.

I am not sure that there are any really complete c3 daytripper fits out there.
Oh also there are two sites each for radar and mag, one of each you will need a 1k dps tank for. I have yet to see a good single ship setup for those sites. (possibly dual asb vargur, but i found autocannons in general to be inferior to lasers in wh)


Those Radar/Mag sites can be soloed by a Tengu quite easily. I used to do them often awhile back when I lived in a C3.
Arckeuss
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#11 - 2013-06-16 23:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Arckeuss
Here is a mix of your two fits, with some modifications with which I can change the subs when I want to explore/fight.

[Loki Exploration]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

In Cargo Hold:
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II
Hobgoblin II x5
EC-300 x5

and when I want to run some sites:

[Loki Combat]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


Hobgoblin II x5
EC-300 x5

In Cargo Hold:
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II

Looks great :)
Celalendir Te'Te'fein
TFT Holding Inc.
#12 - 2013-08-04 19:44:32 UTC
I tried fooling around a bit - mind u - im not sure i wanna do C3's in Null with them, but some feedback be nice.. Im using Artillery as my prefered weapon. - So for complexes - let me have it :)
(No - i dont use faction stuff - atleast not presently.. having a hole in my iskie purse)

[Loki - Artillery]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

10MN Afterburner II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP M
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


Hobgoblin II x5
EC-300 x5


Resists: 90,9 / 85,5 / 83,5 / 85
EHP: 34384
DPS: 266 / Volley: 2633

Cap stable at: 58% (implants) - so no need for cap modules/rigs.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-08-04 20:42:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
I take it from your post that you're not actually living in w-space, which means you don't have access to alts that can salvage for you. With that in mind, I'd recommend this fit:

[Loki, New Setup 2]
Internal Force Field Array I
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Domination 100MN Afterburner
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Thermic Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Salvager II
Expanded Probe Launcher II, Core Scanner Probe I
Small Tractor Beam II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II

Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Offensive - Hardpoint Efficiency Configuration
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer

Hammerhead II x3
Hobgoblin II x2

This will cut through C3 anoms at an extremely high rate and does so without breaking the bank, it does 600 DPS which is incredible for its utility. You can also clear the rats from the two easier data/relic sites for loot/salvage, although you of course won't be able to hack the cans.

It probes down the hole and the site, runs the site, and salvages the site WHILE you're running the site. You have no downtime at all, leading to very high ISK/hour and a reduced gank risk because of how fast you run the sites. A few things to note:

1. This requires genolution implants or a CPU implant to fit. If you don't want to spend 100m on a CN BCS you can fit a cheap 2% CPU implant along with genolutions and use T2. Also, you can use projectiles if you want instead of heavy assault missiles, but then you will need a PG implant. In my opinion, HAMs are far superior to projectiles for this because you don't suffer from falloff. There are webbing cruisers that orbit at 15km, HAMs will do full DPS to them while projectiles will do like half damage. Also, if there's more than 1 BS on the field you can't afford to sit 1.5km off the one you're currently shooting, you need to be speed tanking the other BSs missiles which means orbiting at 7500-10000m and again being stuck way into falloff.

2. Only carry 3 Hammerheads in your drone bay and only bring them out when all sleeper frigs are dead, as you don't want to lose them. Sleepers will NOT switch to your drones if there are no frigs alive. Fill the rest of your drone bay with Hobgoblins, you can use these on frigs. Sometimes the sleepers will switch to them but as long as you react quick enough you can scoop them before they pop. Occasionally you will lose one but that's why you fill the rest of your drone bay with them, to have spares.

3. You've probably noticed the giant exp/kin resist holes. With a 100mn AB, you don't need these resists. Sleepers have EM/Therm lasers and Exp/Kin missiles. The BS missiles have an explosion velocity around 60 m/sec and a radius of 300m. You can be double webbed and still speed tank these missiles effectively. However, the sleeper lasers will murder you if your transversal drops and that's why you need EM/Therm through the roof. Loki is great for this because your racial resists are EM/Therm. Just be aware that the 100mn makes you handle like a brick. Don't make a lot of sharp turns, this will kill your velocity and incoming missiles will really start to hurt.

4. If you can't use T2 salvagers, drop the thermic rig for a salvage tackle, otherwise it will take about 15 minutes per sleeper battleship to salvage it. You could also potentially use a rigor catalyst rig to kill sleeper frigs faster, as web is really the only threat to you.