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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Further Changes to High-Sec Criminal Activity Gameplay Mechanics Requested

First post
Author
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2011-11-07 06:41:35 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
ONLY and i reiterate ONLY if ALL industrials get a tank buff would your idea be feasable.

If concord had a much later response time, and only flagged us as criminals after arriving and 'seeing' us in the act or picking through the wreckage, then yes, tank the hell outta the industrials, this could be great fun

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#42 - 2011-11-07 06:41:56 UTC
The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop it up.

Rather. Make faction sovereignty real. Pirate in Minmatar space, become a criminal to the Minmatar and a target at every station and every gate. No timer. No elapse. You want to be a criminal? You pay the price. No exceptions. The only reason criminal behavior is rampant is there is NO enforcement. Take a page from an OLDER and LESS DEVELOPED....PRIMITIVE society...be a pirate, face the noose.

Sovereignty asserts itself with force if necessary. The citizenry and its enterprise enrich the sovereignty. The sovereignty secures the citizenry. Only in EVE are advanced civilizations less sophisticated than the hunter/gatherer era. Ridiculous.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2011-11-07 06:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
However [ganking indy ships is] neither fun nor competition its just kind of pointless for both sides.
Who decides what is pointless for one side or the other, you?

Some people do it for the LOLs. Some people for the cargo and profits. Some people do it for revenge. It's never a pointless activity for at least one side of the equation, else they wouldn't bother to do it at all.

I ganked a Mackinaw the other day. I was doing it for the LOLs and to earn my first gank. Then a Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster dropped worth 55M ISK. So it was doubly worth my while ... for the LOLs and for the bling.
Viejo Melholm
NecroRise Squadron
Galaxy Spiritus
#44 - 2011-11-07 07:23:27 UTC
-1 to OP
Sure you can even remove CONCORD. Then factional police should be able to kill pirates' pods along with their ships and decline in pirates' rights to dock and cloning facility use in the whole faction+it's allies space. This way either pirate can roam half of empire space and buy ships&equip in the other half OR pirate can terrorize all hisec and live in 0.0. Factional police gets sleeper AI and if lawbreaker have clone in space he harassed his EVE character will be deleted after pod death. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2011-11-07 07:50:09 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
However [ganking indy ships is] neither fun nor competition its just kind of pointless for both sides.
Who decides what it is pointless for one side or the other, you?

Some people do it for the LOLs. Some people for the cargo and profits. Some people do it for revenge. It's never a pointless activity for at least one side of the equation, else they wouldn't bother to do it at all.

I ganked a Mackinaw the other day. I was doing it for the LOLs and to earn my first gank. Then a Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster dropped worth 55M ISK. So it was doubly worth my while ... for the LOLs and for the bling.


next time quote the second sentence as well

Its pointless from the point of experience given/taken, there is non.
Avila Cracko
#46 - 2011-11-07 09:13:34 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Dear CCP,

We, the industrial base and core players of EVE Online, are extremely elated at the removal of insurance payouts to losses caused by CONCORD, as seen here. We have demonstrated, in no uncertain terms, that realism in EVE Online is our foremost priority. This change is definitely a move in the right direction; a move surely to be appreciated by everyone who supports a balanced and morally-stimulating approach toward simulating real-life interaction within the confines of a videogame. However, to fully achieve this vision, further changes need to be made. They are as follows:

The Re-balancing of CONCORD's Physical Capabilities

It is fairly obvious that New Eden's official police force needs to be reworked, if it is to be a proper parallel of its real-life equivalent. We have conducted extensive research, and have determined that no police force in the world has a near-instant response time. Furthermore, we have determined that no police force has the absolute capability to catch every criminal, and to punish every crime. Finally, we have determined that the police is rarely concerned with seeing all criminal cases through to the end, and that many cases are quickly set aside and forgotten.

To that end, we ask that CONCORD ships have their combat capabilities brought in line with their factional navy counterparts; being attacked by CONCORD should no longer be the equivalent of a death trigger. CONCORD's response time should still be proportional to the prestige level of the victim, however this response time should be made longer across the board. We also ask that the evasion of CONCORD become a sanctioned game mechanic, as real-life police are never guaranteed to catch criminal perpetrators.

CONCORD should not be able to follow perps to safespots. A new gameplay mechanic should instead be added, whereby a pilot who spots someone who has recently committed a crime, would have the option to inform CONCORD of his location. We feel that we should, much like in real life, be responsible for our own safety, whether it is in the form of properly securing ourselves and our assets until the police can arrive, or in the form of helping the police catch criminals post-aggression.

The Re-balancing of CONCORD's Bureaucratic Integrity

CONCORD should not exist as an infallible bastion of morality, much like real-life police forces do not. When a person gets busted for possessing an Altoids tin full of a Class II substance, a bottle of fine liquor and a carton or two of cigarettes go a long way toward securing leniency. Similarly, CONCORD should be enticed to look the other way via the strategic placement of a few bundles of Interstellar Kredits.

Pod pilot criminals, being a lesser threat to the empires than pirate factions like the Guristas, should also be able to secure CONCORD favors by bringing them the tags dropped by pirate NPCs. After all, real-life cops are hesitant to bust their informants, even if those informants sometimes hold up bodegas or snatch purses; the big fish are more important.

Finally, we must not forget the very important aspect of having friends in high places. Be an important enough asset to your company, and your boss might just be willing to bring in his lawyers to bail you out of trouble when you, in a drunken stupor, plow your souped-up Civic through a bunch of geriatrics playing checkers on a sidewalk bench. Likewise, having good standings with an NPC agent/corporation that has a presence in the area where one commits a crime should mitigate CONCORD's fury. The threat of a good lawyer is not to be underestimated.



While we are sure that the above changes are not the final step in our quest to bring this game in line with reality, we feel that they are sufficient enough for the time being. They would definitely supplement the changes to insurance that were so desperately needed to make Pend Insurance properly mimic the operating protocols of real-life insurance firms. Please, CCP, continue on your current path, and finally realize your decade-long dream of creating a replica of genuine economic and social interaction.

Sincerely,
Your Core Customers: The Vast Majority, The Public Voice, and The Moral Pillar of EVE Online



I LOLed... you are no part of "the industrial base and core players of EVE Online" group...
you are part of "cry baby "I want easy gang ppl that cant defend itself without any risk"" group that are often called "no balls boys"

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
#47 - 2011-11-07 09:35:58 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Two quick points:

1. That's not how real-life police functions anyway. Real-life justice systems will look the other way if you have power/influence, or if you're of use to them.

2. We already have this form of punishment in the form of negative security status. It takes quite a bit of time to fix your security status, in terms of game time. You can hardly outlaw someone for two decades for an EVE gank. Time in games is compressed, and events happen faster than in real life. A few days of punishment is good enough for EVE online.


Two quick counter points:

1. Real life police are not up against immortal demi gods that are capable of wiping out entire cities. If they were, I'm pretty sure they would be a lot less likely to negotiate.

2. That would only be valid if they either shoot pods belonging to players with negative sec status on sight, or if they locked you out of highsec once you are below a certain sec status (I.E: the gates just wont let you in to 1.0 once you're below -2 and the gates to 0.5 wont let you in if you're below -5).

Stop the spamming, not the scamming!

Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#48 - 2011-11-07 10:13:30 UTC
The original post was probably created to to harvest impotent rage from the righteous beings that are the pve and the strictly industrial types.

But if you're honest, eve would actually be a more interesting and immersing game if all those ideas were implemented.

But whatever, perma death to anyone trying to roleplay a crim, right? How dare some people actually play a game as a game and not some extension or RL morality.
Mal Darkrunner
Zero Tau Research Institute
#49 - 2011-11-07 10:46:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mal Darkrunner
To the OP:

Why does the way a RL police force operate have anything at all to do with what happens in EVE - a game set in a completely unrealistic sci-fi universe?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with the insurance change (as both a ganker and a gankee). However the benefit of the change is not that it's "more realistic", but that it makes suicide-ganking slightly more costly, thereby discouraging the activity to some degree.

I guess I just don't understand people who propose changing EVE game mechanics and use "it would be more realistic" as an argument in their favour.

I'm pretty sure you can play something like Microsoft Space Simulator or Orbitor if you want lots of realism...
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2011-11-07 11:12:51 UTC

Let me add something constructive,
altough it may already have been posted.

Just to remind everybody that a lesser strong CONCORD has it's downsides too,
altough i don't necessarily oppose the idea. Not at all.


The Yulai incident.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=166270

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnjK5EVsIfI
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#51 - 2011-11-07 11:28:04 UTC
Suicide ganking doesn't need to be made easier to offset the insurance fix. Suiciders should be forced to pay for their right to gank. This is great for the Eve economy. I want suiciding in highsec to continue and prosper so I can enjoy knowing that the gankers are paying for it and thus earning the lulz they get.
Commander Spurty
#52 - 2011-11-07 11:37:26 UTC
Another quality thread.

This is what eve is all about new players.

Someone getting butt hurt and composing a long winded drivel type mail on the forums about how awful something is.

Be it DD Wiping out support in the push of one button meaning the attackers have to log off or lose their capitals, the fact space ships could out run missiles all day long, to modules that had zero cap to activate sucked the targets cap or.

250km ECM ninjas being forced to actually get within locking range of their prey was the last good thread of this ilk.

Quality whine OP

Spirit of eve is strong

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#53 - 2011-11-07 14:33:50 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Then you, and the people you know, obviously do not represent the majority. Your opinions are of no significance. Either that, or you are simply too inept to understand the importance of the things we are fighting for. To say that we do not speak for you would show extreme puerility on your part.

So, what will it be, irrelevance or ignorance?



You said you speak for the industrial and core player base. I'm saying you don't speak for me and you don't speak for those I associate with. Don't be so arrogant as to presume you speak for everyone, especially the core player base.

If I want to be heard, I'll speak up. If those I associate with want to be heard, they'll speak up. But we don't need someone like you to assume just because you think we're quiet that we need you to speak for us.

So what will it be, arrogance or ignorance?

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.

Tarkoauc
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#54 - 2011-11-07 14:35:27 UTC
Besides the obvious false flag OP, there are some merits here:

Concord should not be omnipotent and omniscient, the same way insurance should not pay for criminal activity. The current game mechanic is a convenient short cut. Someone who violates Concord rules should have a chance of getting away and should have a chance of destroying Concord ships, albeit no loot should drop from a Concord ship. The more ships are brought against Concord the better the chance, but over time Concord will significantly outnumber the aggressors. In exchange, for the more realistic chances to evade Concord, those who get shot by Concord have a 10% chance of being podded and have all of their jump clones killed/revoked in Empire when they get podded due to their criminal behavior
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#55 - 2011-11-07 14:38:08 UTC
if you are standing in the middle of an empty field, a troop of boy scouts will be able to catch you.

Now while I personally like tit, I'm not a fan of tit for tat.
get over it
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2011-11-07 14:38:35 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Then you, and the people you know, obviously do not represent the majority. Your opinions are of no significance. Either that, or you are simply too inept to understand the importance of the things we are fighting for. To say that we do not speak for you would show extreme puerility on your part.

So, what will it be, irrelevance or ignorance?



You said you speak for the industrial and core player base. I'm saying you don't speak for me and you don't speak for those I associate with. Don't be so arrogant as to presume you speak for everyone, especially the core player base.

If I want to be heard, I'll speak up. If those I associate with want to be heard, they'll speak up. But we don't need someone like you to assume just because you think we're quiet that we need you to speak for us.

So what will it be, arrogance or ignorance?


Well one word CSM. They speak for majority of "interested" EVE players.
Poetic Stanzitroll
Doomheim
#57 - 2011-11-07 15:04:28 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
However [ganking indy ships is] neither fun nor competition its just kind of pointless for both sides.
Who decides what is pointless for one side or the other, you?

Some people do it for the LOLs. Some people for the cargo and profits. Some people do it for revenge. It's never a pointless activity for at least one side of the equation, else they wouldn't bother to do it at all.

I ganked a Mackinaw the other day. I was doing it for the LOLs and to earn my first gank. Then a Gistii B-Type Small Shield Booster dropped worth 55M ISK. So it was doubly worth my while ... for the LOLs and for the bling.


ROFL we are some awesome. That was a great kill. You probably could start a trend here? I wonder if there's some crazy bored alliance whose willing to go and blow up a bunch of ice-miners for the LOLZ. It'd be epic trolls. Miners wold freak out, there'd be massive speculation.

Seriously, you're quite the character. I can't reveal my main in this forum, but I'm a recruiter for the Goons. If you give me 500M ISK I'll personally get you connected to our organization, you'll freaking love it. We can hold hands and gank Macs all day while sharing our super cool E-UNI ganking fits. Also, we'll teach you to fly SB's and not blow yourself up... we all know how the UNI forbids it.

BTW, make sure you keep the whole shadow CSM thing on the DL, you-know-who absolutely hates that he's the head of an organization that is nothing but a public pawn of the man behind the curtain.

-Check out my blog, it's the best!

Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#58 - 2011-11-08 04:54:55 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Another quality thread.

This is what eve is all about new players.

Someone getting butt hurt and composing a long winded drivel type mail on the forums about how awful something is.

Be it DD Wiping out support in the push of one button meaning the attackers have to log off or lose their capitals, the fact space ships could out run missiles all day long, to modules that had zero cap to activate sucked the targets cap or.

250km ECM ninjas being forced to actually get within locking range of their prey was the last good thread of this ilk.

Quality whine OP

Spirit of eve is strong
Ahar. This is what this forum is about. Some one raises a salient point and the target takes the offensive and acts like a tough guy. Nice try Spurty....I can guess how you got that name.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Grogidubnus
Monkey Steals The Peach
#59 - 2011-11-08 05:30:12 UTC
What amuses me is that the carebears think they are the end-all be-all to high sec. The pirates and griefers are just as important to Eve as the carebears are. Skew the rules too much in the favor of the carebears, and CCP loses a LOT of paying subscriptions. Pirates and griefers have just as much say in the mechanics of high sec as the miners/industrialists, if you think they don't, then maybe you should be playing Hello Kitty Island Adventure. (or some other game that doesn't have any "mean people")
shellree
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2011-11-08 07:26:39 UTC
tl;dr wall of text