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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Seriously? That's some incredibly bad game design EVE.

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Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#81 - 2013-06-15 03:52:51 UTC
Maxx Kilbride wrote:
Oh it gets better. I was just told, and confirmed by a GM, that I can't complete the mission and will need to have the quest line reset because that was "my" Dagan. I can't just re-do it myself.


That sounds unlikely, usually they can reset a mission or you can even just wait through a down-time and warp into the spot and it'll have re-spawned.
Gotta Hairball
Doomheim
#82 - 2013-06-15 04:03:37 UTC
Maxx Kilbride wrote:

It's not his fault. It's not mine. It's EVE. It should've spawned one for each of us, as we both had the mission, both helped kill Dagan.

.



I just had help and helped the guy that helped me do the Dagan mission. We both had the mission and they were located at different locations in space. After we finished mine and I collected my Dagan, we warped to the location for his mission, completed it and he collected his Dagan. So, technically, a Dagan was spawned for both of us. Therefore your reasoning is invalid!

I'm not saying you did it, I'm just saying I'm blaming you.
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#83 - 2013-06-15 04:05:40 UTC
Lost Greybeard wrote:
Maxx Kilbride wrote:
Oh it gets better. I was just told, and confirmed by a GM, that I can't complete the mission and will need to have the quest line reset because that was "my" Dagan. I can't just re-do it myself.


That sounds unlikely, usually they can reset a mission or you can even just wait through a down-time and warp into the spot and it'll have re-spawned.


This one no longer works. If you have "completed" the mission objective the mission area will despawn during downtime. I'm guessing this was done to prevent people from "farming" missions like Worlds Collide and similar in hopes for the factions spawn.

Phoibe Enterprises

The Eve Reader -  Audio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#84 - 2013-06-15 04:10:06 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
lol, group PvE.

With a few exceptions (high end wormholes and incursions), new guy, PvE is basically a solo endeavor in EvE.


I have to argue on this one. Missions CAN be a solo thing, sure. But they don't have to be.
If you are obsessed about ISK and such you will loose ISK if you do them in a group, but there is nothing that prevents you from doing them in a group either for fun, or to help out that new player that could need some extra ISK.

Basically...missions is a solo activity if you want them to be a solo activity only.

Phoibe Enterprises

The Eve Reader -  Audio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#85 - 2013-06-15 04:19:59 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
lol, group PvE.

With a few exceptions (high end wormholes and incursions), new guy, PvE is basically a solo endeavor in EvE.


Dagan or Parthus are intended to be one of those exceptions. That's the whole point of those missions, to get new players to get help. Just because you can do them solo now as an older player doesn't mean that's the default setting.
Ernest Erkannen
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2013-06-15 04:53:21 UTC
Well one less whiner in the game.
Marmaduke Hatplate
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-06-15 06:19:36 UTC
Praqzis Synkara wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
welcome to EVE, enjoy your stay.


+1, big time :).

What would TRULY make me laugh is if the 30mil on the market was posted by the guy that got the mission reward! HAHA. In EVE Online, I would totally expect that to happen as well.

I also just want to add that not all noobies feel like OP. I'm brand new to the game (just 5 days old) and agree what everybody else has said so far. Sounds very much like OP messed up, QQ'd about it, and wants it fixed.

But I don't think about EVE Online as a game. I've come to realize it's NOT a game really. It's a futuristic, sci-fi, MMO _simulator_. New Eden is a place filled with hardened capsuleers and you truly have to Trust Noone. Frankly, it's this simulator aspect (and HTFU) that has gotten me quite hooked to EVE right away.

And let me state this... Before EVE, I was a CareBear, Big Time! The idea of PvP turned me off of many games. For some reason, here I am in EVE Online, and loving every minute of it. I actually feel a strong desire to join up with a corp and start doing some Tackling. I suppose it is because I have always loved simulation games. This is not a standard RPG. This is a simulator. Treat it as such, HTFU, and enjoy your time in New Eden :).

BTW, on the whole "broken game design" thing, OP is wrong. If you think about EVE as a simulator, how does it make ANY sense for two guys/quest awards to pop out? It's a single guy you killed, how are there possibly two corpses?


There are two corpses. In fact there are thousands of them. That 'single guy' gets jilled over and over and over. I kill him today, and tomorrow he's back there waiting for my friend to kill him. In fact, if I help my friend, i get to kill him twice! I could hang about fleeting up with every noob who does the arc, and I'd be living a Space Groundhog Day, murdering the exact same guy for ever.

On the subject of encouragement to fleet, if the mission rewards are halved when I do, then I have a chkice of:

Doing the mission once, alone, and getting all the rewards myself, with guaranteed completion (as ling as I'm skilled enough).
Doing the mission with a stranger, running the risk of getting my corpse stolen/ransomed.
Doing the mission with a trusted friend, twice, which would take longer and produce the same rewards as the first option.

Considering the 'trust nobody' ethos pushed by the playerbase, the 'fleet with a stranger' option is discouraged by the playerbase. The PvP-centricity of Eve in fact encourages vets to rip off noobs by doing what the OP encountered, because it's easy ISK, surely? It's a 'soft PvP win' to get one over another player like this.

And the 'fleet with a friend' option is discouraged by the reward-to-time comparison against purely soloing it.

Again, I'm not meaning to whine. It is what it is.

In terms of wether or not the mechanics could be tweaked to encourage fleeting more whilst still allowing the vets to ransom noobs' complete items and retain the PvP aspect of 'stealth help', maybe they could just scale up the rewards somehow for fleet co pletions. Normal rewards x number of players fleeted would at least make fleeting no worse off for rewards than soloing.

I agree that multiple corpses from the same guy IN THE SAME MISSION is silly, and I'll probably be doing the mission twice myself, to help/be helped by my friend, but the game does not encourage fleeting for missions as it is, either in mechanicss or in ideology.

"Friends and fun...The only 2 really important things in EVE Online." - Crazy Dutch Guy
Marmaduke Hatplate
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2013-06-15 06:27:29 UTC
GM Bunyip wrote:
Cilgil Arbosa wrote:
Fact is: A Newbie Epic Arc tailored for newbies, with a mission chain that can keep you occupied for the good half of a week if you play casually and a very tough end boss designed to be finished by two players (preferably also noobs, since the whole freaking arc is designed for them), can not be finished by two players.


Not easily, in general, but the difficulty of the last mission depends on a wide number of variables such as the person's mentality, skill progression, and how quickly they've progressed through the arc. Some people discover the arc late and have an easier time since they've trained longer and become more effective, while others get schooled, bide their time, and come back in a bigger, better ship to finish the job they couldn't before. Others pull in a friend or stranger. I like to think the difficulty of the last mission offers a unique "graduation" challenge with multiple paths to success that cater to different playstyles, and in that regard the design seems to works well. I may be biased, however! Big smile

Cilgil Arbosa wrote:
And if you try to redo that last step a GM basically tells you to suck it up and do the whole mission chain again?


Not quite. We'll explain exactly what happened (i.e. "Hey, looks like someone stole your stuff! Here's an EVElopedia link about ninja looting.") Then we'll reset just that mission, not the whole 60-part arc. Ultimately all that will be lost is some time, and what will be gained is a very valuable lesson about trust that came fairly cheaply.


Maybe a link to said article could be added to the mission briefing. That would:

a. totally cover CCP against claims of unfairness and no warning etc
b. allow noobs who read to avoid the mistake of fleeting with strangers and suffering what the OP did.

"Friends and fun...The only 2 really important things in EVE Online." - Crazy Dutch Guy
Max Godsnottlingson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-06-15 06:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson
To the OP. Hello Kitty on-line, and 'Let's all play together nice on-line' are over there, through the pretty pink doors with unicorns painted on them.

This is Eve, a game where even the 'good guys'are not totally afraid of shafting another player; that's what Eve is about, accept it or move on
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#90 - 2013-06-15 11:53:34 UTC
If the loot/mission drop isn't in your cargohold or hangar, it's not yours.

I have a harem of Damsels all taken from mission spaces where people weren't paying attention, sold quite a few on contracts to people looking for comedy loot drops when they die in nullsec, although recently male exotic dancers seem to sell better.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#91 - 2013-06-15 13:08:02 UTC
Cilgil Arbosa wrote:
Without very, very careful reading of the career agent debriefing text and/or diving into evelopedia it's practically not possible to stumble over that chain yourself.



Very careful reading??? What the hell happened to this world? It's written in plain English, you move your eyes from left to right and sound out each word to form a sentence. If you read all the sentences and don't understand what they mean then try again from the top and pause at the confusing parts then move your eyes to an information source before continuing to the next sentence.

(It's called learning)
Manny Moons
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-06-15 13:42:42 UTC
The learning process is much more efficient if you don't resist so much.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#93 - 2013-06-15 14:21:48 UTC
Manny Moons wrote:
The learning process is much more efficient if you don't resist so much.


Resistance is futile

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2013-06-15 14:31:55 UTC
Maxx Kilbride wrote:

But no. Then people will come here and justify how that's just "EVE" and how it's "Hardcore" , and it's "my fault".


"Your fault" is probably a slight exaggeration, although nobody here would disagree that doing some more research always helps.

Your first mistake was in making faulty assumptions, but that's forgivable. Other games cause obviously single-headed monsters to drop multiple heads of that's the quest item and multiple people killed it.

But you will have to unlearn some of those instincts, because eve tends not to do that sort of pampering.

Your second mistake, and this is important, was in complaining about it. You lose literally nothing by asking a GM to reset the mission and trying again after he does so.

The whole process will probably take less then an hour. Considering what others have historically faced when making assumptions, you got off pretty lightly.

Dust yourself off, chalk that one up as a learning experience and move on, and you'll garner nods of approval. We all did that, at one point or another. My most recent learning experience was mere weeks ago, the last in a long string, and it cost me a battleship. Such is EVE. 6 years, you'd think I'd learn to watch local.

Cry to the devs about "obviously broken" game design principals that have created 10 consecutive years of constant growth and held some of us here for 10 years straight, you'll receive mockery, because we all know you are wrong.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2013-06-15 14:35:06 UTC
Marmaduke Hatplate wrote:

a. totally cover CCP against claims of unfairness and no warning etc


It would be more time effective to just have a disclaimer info box pop up when you click the undock button...

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Marmaduke Hatplate
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2013-06-15 15:52:56 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Marmaduke Hatplate wrote:

a. totally cover CCP against claims of unfairness and no warning etc


It would be more time effective to just have a disclaimer info box pop up when you click the undock button...


That would be hugely annoying, whereas an extra line added to the briefing wouldn't be nearly so intrusive.

"Friends and fun...The only 2 really important things in EVE Online." - Crazy Dutch Guy
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#97 - 2013-06-15 19:54:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
Thread locked for cleanup.

On second thought...

Quote:
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There are far too many posts breaching these rules for the thread to merit cleaning up. If you would like to discuss lying, theft, or profiteering in Eve, please do so civilly and constructively.

Thread locked.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

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